Children Falling In Love With A Super Reach

<p>Alexander, indeed CMU AND UMich are excellent in theater, both in the top five in the nation. Again, these are BFA programs so not what the OP was looking into. Actually, my D's boyfriend (from another state) is an applicant to BFA programs for acting, not musical theater, and UMich is one of his top schools too. The other usual suspects are on his list. </p>

<p>Jamimom, you are SO right that many of the BFA programs that your son and my D are applying to...when people in the "regular" world hear the name of the college assume it is not too selective and would imagine "of course she'll get in" as her "stats" are over what is needed there, but they are totally unaware that getting into those schools' BFA degree programs is in the single digit admit rate. Getting into Emerson for the BFA will be very difficult, even if the academic part won't be. Every one of these programs is accepting between 5-10% of applicants, worse than Ivy league. The general public would have no clue, for instance, that getting into Penn State's program....they take 5% of applicants....about 16 kids total. CMU takes about 12 kids! Out of hundreds who apply. Your son is also adding other types of schools/degrees to his list which is likely a good idea. My D has not done that. I hope at least one school works out, but I think at least one should. In the case of NYU and UMich, as you are aware, the academic application will matter very much in addition to the artistic review so that is even more difficult. I can't wait to the process is over. </p>

<p>Susan
PS, it would be great to meet up with you if any of his audition dates coincide with my D. I wonder how we'd know who was who though. Maybe before audition season, we will find a way.</p>

<p>Hi Susan, S is auditioning early for his schools- about 7 auditions in Nov and Dec though he is not applying ED or EA for any of those schools. I wanted to get this out of the way before the weather turns, and S is chomping at the bit to get going. Some of the schools are rolling in admissions so hopefully we will get some news by Christmas. And S has applied early to one non audition ivy. I am now pushing him to get an app into some schools like Vassar, Muhlenberg, etc with theatre programs that are non audition as well. We found that S's choices were somewhat limited in the audition schools by choices of audition dates as there were some conflicts. And he is also looking at Juilliard and a few other drama programs with 2005 audition dates. This has not been an easy process as S is very difficult an capricious! I did see some dates posted for your D on the MT thread and if we have overlap, I would love to have lunch with you! If they both get through this process (and the two of us as well, we should throw in a drink! LOL Funny, though, the whole MT thing is what got me onto the CC boards, but now S is not as deadset about MT as he was, though it is a strong interest and an option. He has found some regular acting programs that interest him as well that have a strong chapter in MT training and opportunities.</p>

<p>Editrix wrote: "My daughter kept putting hers off--she's a procrastinator anyway, and may also have had some magical thought that putting her eggs in one basket would help prove her love for Yale--and I can't begin to describe the misery of having to work on applications over Christmas vacation, when her self-confidence was at an all-time low."</p>

<p>This is one reason why I love this board/forum. Parents telling the truth about their application process from last year so we newbies can learn from it. I think Editrix shared her daughter's experience earlier in the year (or another parent with similar circumstances did). It's something I never would have thought of ahead of time, but it has changed our admissions philosophy with our son. </p>

<p>We just finished an East Coast college trip that included Harvard, Yale, George Washington, Georgetown and U of Chicago, visited in that order. Our son fell for Harvard right away and was warm to Yale and GW. Didn't click with Georgetown so he's dropping it from the list. On the plane to Chicago, I was starting to quietly freak out that he was in love with his super-reach and was going to be set up for heartbreak (his stats make him eligible for admission but it's a lottery, we know). Thank goodness Chicago (which is a match for him stats-wise) turned out to be such a wonderful fit. In fact, by the end of the trip, the two schools were tied in his mind. He felt he could be extremely happy at either. So our strategy is to apply to Chicago early and hope that he gets good news Dec. 15 and has one school "in the bank" that he feels wonderful about. Then he can apply to the other super-reaches and safeties, knowing that he will be happy no matter what. </p>

<p>If we had not read on this board about Editrix's and others' experiences, I doubt we would have been this pragmatic. We would have swung for the fences with the super-reach and probably would have experienced the same devastation over winter break. </p>

<p>But the best part for me, the mom, is that we've found a school that he can likely get into (possibly with merit aid) that seems to suit his interests, ambitions and learning style so perfectly. If that school had been the super reach school only, I would be right where Lisa Fillmore is now, tossed between hope that the lottery will pay out and nervous dread that it won't and that the holidays might be quite dreary this year.</p>

<p>I'm just very grateful to the parents who put their stories (and hearts) out here. They really do make a difference for those of us going through the process now.</p>

<p>Momof2inca--that strategy sounds so smart that I'm sure you would have come up with it on your own, but I'm thrilled if I helped in any way.</p>

<p>Yes, I agree with momof2inca that getting other people's honest opinions helps a great deal in making decisions; a great deal in knowing the possibilities and the impossibilties. Getting that kind of information in the real world is very hard especially in school districts that are not in the 'know' and where the GC is of no help.</p>

<p>And I should add where the competition is fierce.</p>

<p>I guess I am somehow like another poster who told tales of great stats on the part of her children. I find this and the Princeton site, however, bring everyone to a real picture. There will be posters who tell everyone they are sure to get in and then a couple of pragmatists who bring things down to earth. Very thankful for getting to read, and share with my daughter, all these views.</p>

<p>Lisa:</p>

<p>The point to stress about uber-selective schools is that admission or rejection is not about the applicant but about the school. Your D has great stats; not perfect, but great. But whether she has great, excellent, or perfect stats, admission depends more on what the college is looking for in a particular year than about her personally. If what the applicant has to offer matches what the college is looking for, admission is more likely. The problem is that what the college is looking for changes from year to year. Of course, it's hard not to take rejection personally and hard, but it really is the way to look at it. And in that spirit, she should have some safeties: colleges that she would be happy going to if her dream school did not pan out. Hope for the best, but have a fall-back position.</p>

<p>Momof2Inca- What appealed to your son about Harvard as compared to Yale? And what did he not like about Georgetown? We are in the early stages of this, and I am appreciating all the info on this board. Thanks. Karen</p>

<p>Karen, many of us have visited college campuses over the summer and have posted reports on the old CC parents forum. I suggest searching for these and printing the relevant reports. I started a folder for each school we were considering with not only the college's PR stuff, but also parent impressions of visits. Re Georgetown, several of us felt put off because we were not allowed to go inside the dorms.</p>

<p>Karenindallas,
I second kinshasa about looking at the old reports. Some of them were very detailed and helpful (including where to stay and which buses to take!). In a nutshell, my son is a humanities nerd with great ability in math but no desire to pursue that subject (tests equally as high in verbal). He desires a very intellectual, urban campus. He has no interest in sports or frats. Politics, debate and journalism are well-developed interests. We researched schools that fit his criteria and came up with 8 possibilities (UC Berkeley, UC Davis, Rochester, Harvard, Yale, Chicago, George Washington, Georgetown). We've visited all but two. </p>

<p>As I already posted, our son loved Chicago, felt at home there. He also loved Harvard, which was our first stop. We did the info session, went on the tour, he sat in on a senior seminar with a nationally-known author/political scientist, ate lunch in the Harry Potter-style freshman dining hall and met kids there. He just seemed to click with everyone that he met. He said the people he talked/listened to were incredibly intelligent and interesting and intense. He liked Boston being so close. The history of the place (both the city and campus) really appealed to him. The students seemed confident, worldly and unpretentious. It seemed like a place for serious pursuit of interests, without regard to appearances. (Of course, we were there for just one day, so we didn't see everything or everyone.) While S was at the class, the three of us ate lunch at a great hamburger place down the street where all the burgers are named after politicians and celebrities. The Coop bookstore was the best bookstore we'd ever been in, bar none. Talk about character. I could live in that place.</p>

<p>Yale was next and, my goodness, it's a beautiful campus with beautiful people! Our impression of Yale was that it's more social and athletic, but still very intellectual. The Yalies we saw seemed fairly preppy, balanced (physical with intellectual). The senior who ran the information session was quite friendly and talked about how happy everyone at Yale is. The tour guide was a pretty and articulate junior young lady, also very happy. The campus was majestic but not cold-feeling even though it was pouring rain. I can only imagine how beautiful it is on a sunny day in fall. The residential house system seemed maybe a little fraternity/sorority to us, although I like that they break the campus into houses to make the university seem smaller. It does seem a little cliquey, especially since there are preferred and not preferred houses (even with random placement as a freshman) and you are in them all four years. We had picked out a class for S to visit and he had permission from the professor via email, but unfortunately, I blew it and had jotted down the wrong time on our itinerary so he missed it while we were on the tour. He had an interview in the admissions office with a senior science major. It went okay, he said, but they didn't quite click, possibly because their interests were pretty disparate or because S is not good at small talk. We spent a lot of time in the bookstore during his interview because we had the younger sister and it was raining so hard. It was night and day from Harvard's. Very corporate, run by Barnes & Noble. Hardly a soul there, even at lunch. Had a great lunch at a pizza place (a few people from Yale said New Haven made the first American pizza, so we had to try it.) We weren't able to spend as much time as we wanted at Yale because we had to drive to DC (a mistake, it took 8.5 hours instead of the 5.5 predicted by Mapquest... next time we'd fly or take the train.) Overall, my impression of Yale is that our S could fit in there, but not as well as at Harvard. And the lack of a big city nearby was not a plus for him.</p>

<p>Georgetown was similarly gorgeous, more like Yale than Harvard in appearances. We went to the info session and tour and hung out a bit in the bookstore. The info session was very professional (a crisp, efficient PowerPoint by an admission rep). The tour guide was a junior girl, preppy with up-turned collar, articulate, self-assured. The students were very dressed up for class for the most part (leather jackets, some girls in dress shoes, full make-up). There were a lot of athletes around and foreign languages everywhere. It seemed urban, polished and very pre-professional. Lots of talk about grad school placements and careers. We had a great lunch at a vegetarian Indian restaurant in Georgetown. In the end, S felt it wasn't nerdy enough, a little too preppy for his tastes. It looks like a great school for the right kid, but not him. All of us thought he might not be happy in that environment, so we dropped it off the list. But it might reappear in four years if he does decide to go to grad school. The political/government connections are very appealing.</p>

<p>We ended with Chicago, which if anyone wants to know more about I can share. (Also, I can share about George Washington.)</p>

<p>-- Momof2 in CA</p>

<p>Please share about Chicago..you are so good at this! Your perceptions of HARVARD and Georgetown appeared right on target! Keep going...tell all!!!</p>

<p>Momof2Inca--were you in Chicago this past weekend? I was there with my D for family weekend, maybe we were there at the same time.</p>

<p>momof2-</p>

<p>your son's impressions of these schools are similar to those of my son, who also dropped GTown from his list after a visit. I can't comment on harvard because, although we visited Cambridge, he refused to visit Harvard. Like your son, he thought Yale was preppy. And, like your son, he's looking for an urban feel. Please tell us what you thought of Chicago AND GWU. My son thinks Chicago may be too intense for him but he absolutely loves GWU (as well as Brown and Emory).</p>

<p>Okay, I'll start with George Washington. Talk about urban! This is a university that exists seamlessly in a big, loud, car-honking, siren-blaring city. The campus, including dorms and classrooms, lecture halls and libraries are identifiable only because each one has a very nice GW flag hanging off of it. It spans several city blocks. The main campus is called Foggy Bottom (and it WAS foggy/drizzling our entire 3 day stay in DC). The other campus is called Mount Vernon, which has some of the dorms and a library, I believe; however, we did not make it out there to see it. </p>

<p>Our son started the day meeting with a law professor at GW's law school, who is a friend of a friend. She talked to him about the school and gave him a quick tour. Meanwhile, H and I (D was sleeping in back at the hotel) dropped in unannounced on the honors department to get information on the honors dorm and program. We happened to stop by while the woman who runs the department was in and she kindly gave us about 15 minutes of her time explaining the program and sharing honestly her perceptions of the differences between GW and Georgetown. (She noted the difference in campus feel and the higher-octane student body at GT, but said the internships at GW were even better and that the honors program would provide our son with academic peers). We also chatted in her office area with a current honors student and a recent alum who had double-majored in religion and criminal justice; they seemed very happy with their experiences at GW. We grabbed some hot tea and a snack at a local student cafe and then walked a few blocks to the White House!</p>

<p>After that, we picked up D and went to the info session, led by an admissions rep and a student. It was pretty casual, but the impression I got was that they were trying to sell the campus by talking about the spacious dorms, single bathrooms, new student housing, the great food plan that lets kids eat at many restaurants in town and shop and get manicures, etc... They didn't focus in on academics as much as the other schools, more on amenities. Then we went on a tour, led by a bright young woman who seemed just as articulate and happy as the others. Our tour took us to food places and inside dorms, past sorority/fraternity housing. We saw the outsides of lecture halls and libraries. Again, the focus seemed on lifestyle opportunities, less on intellectual pursuits. The students we saw seemed friendly and happy, but without a central gathering place (student union) it seemed as if they weren't really students, more like young workers. You didn't get the sense that this is a school where intellectual rigor is a priority; not that one couldn't find intellectual rigor here, just that it isn't built around the life of the mind. I got the sense that there is a little more hand-holding, but also that the political, media and business opportunities are incredible. Several people mentioned freshmen who work in the Capitol, which lit up my son's eyes (although the honors college director said they really were trying to discourage internships until later years because they see kids using them as career stepstones and sort of bypassing the academic life almost altogether). </p>

<p>After the tour, we scurried across the street to the CNN Crossfire studios (admissions gives out free tickets, or you can email ahead and request them) and joined about 200 people, students mostly, in the live audience. It was definitely a highlight for the four of us (they interviewed two congressmen that day). The tour guide said that since Crossfire is produced on GW's campus, CNN is required to use only GW interns for the show (this also sounded great to my son.) We finished the day at a nice (but way too expensive) Mexican restaurant. </p>

<p>Overall, GW seems like it could work for our S but that the level of intellectual discourse he is looking for would be hit or miss. He would have to purposefully seek out the intense academics of a Harvard or Chicago, and might not find them every semester, but I think he would find others who love politics. His stats would make him a big fish at GW, which could be nice if he built relationships with professors, although I'm not sure he's a build-relationships-with-professors kind of guy. I also worry that the rush and noise of city life might distract from academic/intellectual pursuits and that he would miss the quiet life (though the Mount Vernon campus is said to offer that). So, GW stays on the list and would likely beat out the UCs in S's eyes because of what it offers.</p>

<p>Chicago is up next!</p>

<p>Did you see the student lounge area? You had to go upstairs in the building where the restaurants are (I forget the name). We were on campus the day before Kerry was due to arrive and speak.....so there was lots of political stuff going on outside when we arrived. The students are GWU seemed really happy....everyon was grinning, hugging, greeting, etc. The atmosphere was a complete 180 from what we saw at GTown where everyone had their heads down as they walked by and nobody was talking. Out of all of the schools we visited, GWU wins the award for happiest students (from what we saw). Perhaps $46k year can buy happiness!</p>

<p>During our info, they focused on the academics as much as any other school....lots of discussion about study abroad...and I think they said they were just about to introduce a 3+3 for JD. Of course, there was also the mention of the housekeeping service for all freshmen...at which point my son started to nudge me and nod. Anyway (rolling eyes)....</p>

<p>No, we didn't get to see the upstairs of the student eating area, just the restaurants and the big screen t.v. which was about to show a Red Sox/Yankees game, lots of students getting ready to watch -- looked fun. We were in a hurry to get to the Crossfire event so didn't make it up there. I'm glad to hear that it exists though and appreciate your impressions of the campus and people. So completely different from GT, isn't it! Our S is definitely going to apply, is yours?</p>

<p>My S will apply if his ED plans elsewhere don't work out..... like your son, his stats place him above the median range for GWU...but I don't think he realizes it. So, in one regard it's kind of a safety.....but not to him.</p>

<p>PS..I think the bowling alley was up there too (where the lounge was)...but in a separate area and behind a soundproof enclosure.</p>

<p>Kerry, he went to Yale, yes? All the discussion when we were at Yale last week. We in France don't know Kerry is the elite Le Rosey and fancy boarding school, Yale and the strange Skull and Bones club. We are now at Stanford. Beautiful and sunny compared to Yale and Harvard. Son liked Harvard better than Yale. More international feel, students seemed more mature. Guide was impressive. Yale guide talked a lot about parties. Son spent first 4 years of life in LA so he says he feels at home at Stanford. Went to grocery store for drinks and everywhere were Stanford students getting ready for Halloween parties. Such diversity, students easily mixing. Very lovely. Feel is so American relaxed at Stanford compares to Harvard and Yale. Son feels like it's vacation and the other schools were serious. We look at Pamona next.</p>

<p>Frenchmom-</p>

<p>Stanford is awesome! My son won't consider it because of the earthquakes (go figure). Honestly, I think Stanford would have been a fantastic fit for him. Tell me, do you think Stanford is as intense as Harvard? Do students who love Stanford also love Harvard...or is that unlikely?</p>