<p>Okay, there seems to be a propensity for mistaking cause and correlation here on this thread.</p>
<p>"Chinese immigrant families CAUSE successful children."
versus
"Chinese immigrant families CORRELATE with successful children."</p>
<p>Because there are just as many Chinese kids in sub-par schools as there are in top schools, it's safe to say that the relationship is correlational, not causational. What's causing it is of course work ethic. Now, if you take any group (Asian, Jewish, Caucasian, black, Hispanic) and you put them into families where work ethic is strong, they will be successful good members of society.</p>
<p>I mean, does anyone for a minute believe that Jews hold 20% of Nobel Prizes because of some genetic predisposition toward winning Nobel Prizes? Hardly.</p>
<p>crypto-I dunno..but I don't think our parents really do it for their own self-worth. At least I really don't think mine does. THey just simply want the best for us. They had such a great desire to learn but had so little resources and opportunities. Now, they see all of these resources and opportunities aroudn us and I understand if they want to push us to use them.</p>
<p>it's hard to understand...but check this ok.</p>
<p>the world problems you think that our parents should be worrying about over B grades...probably matter more to most parents who've suffered first hand at these problems. my parents suffered a communist government overthrowing their peaceful lives...but worst than that i still have blood relatives in a communist country dying for a better life. most asian parents just want us to realize how fortunate we are to have everything we want as long as we get the grades. they want us to not take for granted the opportunities we've been given...because we have blood relatives back in our home countries who would give their left testicle to be in our positions. </p>
<p>i get a home to live in, clothes to wear, computer to chat with, cell phone to talk on, car to drive, girlfriend and no curfew...</p>
<p>while i have cousins who have less food in their homes than i have in my stomach.</p>
<p>i don't think i deserve to go to my parents and say...uh my life long desire is to become a professional chef.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i don't think i deserve to go to my parents and say...uh my life long desire is to become a professional chef.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What if you can become the best chef in the world? What if you can offer your family a better standard of living doing that than becoming an attorney?</p>
<p>I understand that your parents want you to be successful, but this isn't a country where success comes from one road most travelled.</p>
<p>to UCLAri:
Probabilistically, your chances of becoming a successful lawyer is much higher than becoming a world famous chef. I don't personally endorse sacrificing goals in order to pursue the end of money, but hell, your chef argument is just awfully weak.
to crypt:</p>
<br>
<p>If all the uber hardworking and smart people went to China or Japan and worked immensely hard and got all the top jobs, wouldn't you be ****ed off too. That's why some people have the stereotypes and anger they do. Not that working hard isn't fair, because in america the hardest working (mostly) do the best, but it still angers people.
I don't really see what the point of that post was. It doesn't justify anything. Actually, that whole argument is a logical fallacy(appeal to emotion).
general view point:
Now, I think part of the reason Asian kids do better is because of education in early childhood, which doesn't get properly exploited by preschool and kindergarden in the United States. Which, well, is a cultural thing.</p>
<p>Spartan you racist. There is a reason why Asian students do better on standardized tests in America and that is because of the following:
A) Hardcore Pushing from parents - anything less is unacceptable
B) Cream of the crop - dumb chinese people are not coming to the United States because they cant afford to get out of the country! Some of Chinas smartest people are coming here to go to college and then in turn have smart kids.
C) Its the first generation thing - all first generation children work hard because parents know how bad it could be. Your kids will probably be a lot like white teenagers now.
D) Its easy to get good grades if all you do is study! - Im not saying all kids are like this, but many asian kids study from sun up to sun down, social lives are pretty much non - existant. </p>
<p>Now please go on with your version of Social Darwinism Spartan.</p>
<p>spartan in fact I would be glad to give a standardized test of the same material to all white people around the globe, and then to all asians in every nation. I would be interested to see who did better. Your argument pretty much sucks. If we took all of the most intelligent african americans, jews, natives, and whites and put them in China's schools I think the results would be similar in that nation.</p>
<p>"Its the first generation thing - all first generation children work hard because parents know how bad it could be."</p>
<p>Uh - yah. Along with the Illegals who WON'T LEARN ENGLISH. You don't hear of Chinese people refusing to learn english. When they move here, they adjust to American Culture.</p>
<p>AND - are you guys saying intelligence is genetic? Smart people come here from China and have smart children? That just SUPPORTS the idea that one race could be smarter than the other.</p>
<p>Im assuming by illegals you mean hispanic immigrants. Yet another hateful and racist undertone to your post. As if illegals really have the time and money to take english courses. Unlike the asian aristocracy from communist party backing china which actually come here usually on college scholarships. Its easy to learn the language if you are 1) already educated enough to know that you need it, and 2) have the oppurtunity to learn it. Hispanics are so much worse off and discriminated against than asians in this nation. Like the other poster said its all socio economics. But please respond line by line and i will form my rebuttal to more of your racist comments.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Uh - yah. Along with the Illegals who WON'T LEARN ENGLISH. You don't hear of Chinese people refusing to learn english. When they move here, they adjust to American Culture.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Go down to Chinatown and meet some of the grandparents that frequent there. You'd be surprised.</p>
<p>Spartan please tell me if in fact race is genetic, how the last 400 years prove asians to be smarter than white people. Remember opium? How about that the whole educational system that we are debating today is westernized and formed by white people. </p>
<p>I in no way believe that any race is superior to another, im just simply disproving your racist advocacy.</p>
<p>It's pretty hard to learn the new language and culture if you're 40/50 when you come here. It's all about the new generation - that's all you can compare.</p>
<p>"Hispanics are so much worse off and discriminated against than asians in this nation."</p>
<p>How can that be? In what ways? How are they disadvantaged in any way? A Mexican Immigrant from Mexico settles in LA or a Chinese immigrant settles there. Why is the Mexican at a disadvantage?</p>
<p>"I in no way believe that any race is superior to another, im just simply disproving your racist advocacy."</p>
<p>But, somehow, you defend in particular the hispanic immigrants who don't have their children learn english because you must be "1) already educated enough to know that you need it." HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE LANGUAGE OF TEH COUNTRY YOU ARE MOVING TOO? People like you are the ones that allow children to recieve educations in spanish at public schools, putting them at a disadvantage in our ENGLISH SPEAKING nation. ESL (english as a second language) programs are great for children who come to America at the ages of 8,10,12, etc. But when lots of schools speak spanish IN CLASS in first second and third grade, this just promotes a lack of education.</p>
<p>Spartan ill tell you a story about a suburb here in Atlanta named Chamblee. A suburb that has had major gang problems with hispanics, whites, blacks, and ASIANS. Yes your beloved superior Asians in this area are the unfortunate ones - the forgotten lower class Asians. They are barely surviving day to day to make ends meet and go to poor and dangerous schools. They often participate in shoot outs and drop out of high school. Where is the natural intelligence that god magically granted them to score high on the SAT? Defend this.</p>
<p>Okay - there are outlyers. And I never said Asians are genetically superior. I said that statistics show that Asians perform better in the manner of intelligence that is required for schools and by society in terms of education.</p>
<p>Unlike the asian aristocracy from communist party backing china which actually come here usually on college scholarships</p>
<br>
<p>That's not true at all. The communist party is rather against their best and brightest immigrating to America. It creates a brain drain in China and stymies chinese efforts to compete with America, Europe, and Japan.</p>
<p>Nor is it only the the rich segments of chinese society which come to America to learn. It truly is the most able(academically) which make it over(except for those that are smuggled over by boat). Most of the chinese people I know came from relatively modest backgrounds and weren't children of highly ranked communist officials. And you know, if you think about it in terms of numbers, there just aren't that many rich communist party members to account for the number of chinese students entering u.s. universities in the last few years.</p>
<p>Besides, think about it, American Universities have no reason to favor the communist party.</p>
<p>Spartan if you were an illegal you would be worrying about a lot more than simply scoring high on your next exam. You are trying to SURVIVE. As usual you ignore half of my post because you know that it is right! Hispanics that are illegals cant go to the local community center and learn english for the fear of being deported. Hispanics do not think they have to learn english right away because 1) it takes away valuable time when they could be trying to earn a living, 2) they cant always afford good teaching, 3) all sorts of immigrants get here from mexico, again see socio economics. I bet if we brought over the best educated hispanics to America they would already know english! And Im sure they would test well. </p>
<p>Locus maybe i was in the wrong to label the majority from communism, that isnt true you are right. I was simply basing it off of a few of my first generation Chinese friends. Although they may be comparitively modest backgrounds to US standards, they still must be well off in China to come over here.(I guess unless by boat) But most of the high scoring Asians in this area are from pretty rich backgrounds.</p>
<p>You never said how Hispanics are discriminated against.</p>
<p>Okay - but that has nothign to do with the illegal aspect. That's economics. Poor people don't do as well on their SAT scores as richer people - but many colleges take that into account, along with their need blind policies which give people who can't pay tuition an equal change of getting in. Maybe not enough to balance it out completely, but you get the point.</p>
<p>You assume EVERY Asian immigrant is a rich smart sucessful person while every hispanic immigrant is poor and struggling for a living. Why is that?</p>