<p>My d. spent two overnights at my alma mater (the "#1 LAC"). After 1 1/2 hour at Smith, and a meeting with her would-be advisor, she bought the sweatshirt. (TheDad was there, so he can vouch for it! ;))</p>
<p>If your Smith students are anything like you all, they must be amazing! My D is in a similar quandary to SailorGuy's... admitted to 6 wonderful schools... but she LOVES Smith...</p>
<p>Unfortunately, no Financial Aid... 2 half merit scholarships, but not from her top 4 schools! We're not rich, and live in an expensive area, but I guess everyone else is more needy than we are. And we have child #2, 5 years younger, so they won't be undergrads together.</p>
<p>D is deciding between Smith, Wellesley, and Wesleyan U. Reactions from people in our west coast town are "Welleseley's wonderful", but most haven't heard of Smith and Wesleyan... though WE know they are great, and people who DO know them are impressed.</p>
<p>In the literature we've seen, Smith has fewer employers visiting, and fewer going to grad school... which scares us - D will have to get a high-paying job to pay off her massive student loans in the long run... she'll probably end up in grad school some day, too - her interests are in politics and international relations...</p>
<p>Any thoughts on the pros and cons of these great schools and being employable afterwards? They are all great, and she has reasons to go to each... </p>
<p>Can she get internships to help, or do we just multiply $45K x 4 and adjust for inflation, wipe out our retirement or borrow to the hilt, and hope for the best? Or do we coax her to go to another excellent school she's not excited about for half price, not in New England, which is where she wants to be?</p>
<pre><code> -- Late breaking news --
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<p>Today's mail just arrived from Wellesley addressed to D's parents, strengthening their case for long term ROI and what they can do for D...</p>
<p>Irner...welcome to CC. You and your D have some very big decisions to make. Some advice, FWIW, do not touch your retirement savings, period!!!! College costs are phenomenal these days, and they go up on average of 6% per year. Ultimately, one must choose a college that is affordable, or ultimately, one that you will have to borrow for but know that the return will be worth it. Smith, Wesleyan, or Wellesley are great colleges, and you won't go wrong with either. However, the question worth asking is where does you D fit in best, and where does her heart tell her she wants to go? For some families, that decision is made because of finances unless the student wants to take out loans in excess of two-three years salary after they graduate. My advice will always be to take the best financial deal when comparing apples to apples. I love Smith and so does my D; but that doesn't mean that if we couldn't afford it she would have ended up there. However, if your D really LOVES Smith and gets better offers elsewhere, call Smith financial offices and tell them your plight. It's worth the chance.</p>
<p>Irner, I wouldn't concede an inch to Wellesley on politics, IR, alumni network, or employment prospects. </p>
<p>Send me a PM if you want some details that I'm not willing to post in public.</p>
<p>You will also get a different metric of comparison if you combine grad & professional schools. The differences between S & W are insignificant.</p>
<p>Irner, I echo BJM8: don't do anything that you and your daughter can't handle.</p>
<p>We found ourselves in a similar predicament -- too much saved/earned to be eligible for FA, but not well-off enough to afford it without some major sacrifices. Ironically, if she had gotten into one of her Ivies -- the schools everyone says are priced out of the stratosophere -- we would be receiving aid. I came to the realization that college is the great economic equalizer. Everyone ends up poor for at least four years. </p>
<p>What is "long term ROI"?</p>
<p>If you have to pay equally for all three top choices, your daughter MUST go with her gut. She'll be happier, get better grades as a result, and will always get a job based on her merits. It really doesn't matter how many employers come to the college. It only matters what the graduates are qualified to do when they leave. My guess is that, since she is deciding between 3 liberal arts schools, she and you value the broad education, not the professional development. </p>
<p>Oh, and our daughters are BETTER than us. :-)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.smith.edu/cdo/%5B/url%5D">http://www.smith.edu/cdo/</a>
Smith College CDO (Career Development Office) is one of the most extraordinary found anywhere. They do a tremendous job with finding employers, holding job fairs with numerous companies, and provide tremendous help to students in preparing resumes, applications, and readying for interviews. Smith does a great job with advising, and preparation for the world of work. I have yet to find another college so ready to help in these areas.
[quote]
Oh, and our daughters are BETTER than us.
[/quote]
So true, so true!!</p>
<p>I just want to chime in here about graduate school statistics:</p>
<p>According to princetonreview.com:</p>
<p>For wellesley ----
- 22 percent go to grad school right after graduation
- 5 go to business school
- 20 percent to med school
- 10 percent to law school</p>
<p>For Smith---
- 2 percent to law school on graduation
- 1 percent to med school
-20 percent to grad school</p>
<p>Wellesley has a reputation for being very pre-professional, much more so than Smith (or any Seven Sister, for that matter). The business/law/med school statistics seem to confirm this. This was actually a turn off for me. I didn't want to go somewhere where a third of the student body is going to professional school. It's too boring and predictable to me. However, this may end up being a good thing for other people. However, remember that about the same percentage of Smith and Wellesley students go on to graduate school (which excludes professional school). If your daughter is interested in pure grad school, not law/business/med school, there's no reason to choose Wellesley over Smith. If your daughter isn't interested in med/law/business school, don't let a college fool you with these statistics.</p>
<p>Good luck with your daughter's choice!</p>
<p>I question PR's stats. I'm skeptical that only 1 percent of Smithies go to Med school...nor that one in five Wellesley grads does. I'd also want to compare apples to apples, having Smith's numbers for business and law school.</p>
<p>That said, one of the things D didn't care for so much about W was that it seemed more relentlessly pre-professional in atmosphere.</p>
<p>Good point --- PR can be strange sometime. TheDad, do you have any more reliable statistics to work with?</p>
<p>Wife, D & I talked about the possibility of a highly pre-professional atmosphere @ W yesterday. Makes for interesting discussion albeit a highly speculative one.</p>
<p>I like Smith because it does give you the opportunity to explore different subjects and this helps too:</p>
<p>SMITH</p>
<p>Education Quality A (9.3)<br>
Social Life B (7.3)<br>
Extracurricular Activities A- (8.3)<br>
University Resource Use A (9.3)<br>
Perceived Campus Safety A (9.5)<br>
Surrounding City A- (8.4)<br>
Campus Aesthetics A+ (9.7)<br>
Campus Maintenance A (9.1) </p>
<p>WELLESLEY</p>
<p>Education Quality A- (8.7)<br>
Social Life C (4.3)<br>
Extracurricular Activities B+ (7.9)<br>
University Resource Use A- (8.3)<br>
Perceived Campus Safety A (8.9)<br>
Surrounding City B- (6.5)<br>
Campus Aesthetics A (9.2)<br>
Campus Maintenance A (9.1) </p>
<p>studentsreview.com</p>
<p>slight difference. but helpful to me. smith makes my heart go bump bump haha.</p>
<p>Sorry, Arianne, I don't. I saw some of Smith's 3-4 years back but I plead a middle-age memory cramp, though I can still reel off useless information like every Japanese carrier and battleship at the battle of Midway and the German battlecruisers at the battle of Jutland. But knowing Smith's strength in the bio sciences just and a lifetime of plowing through data just makes me distrust the feel of it. That would say about 6 or so med students per graduating Smith class...and 100-plus for Wellesley. Mmmm...permit me to doubt that. Particularly the latter.</p>
<p>Both W & S are fine schools. But many people there's a difference in feel. (W, after all, was D's #2, so I don't think ill of it.)</p>
<p>For interest in politics and government, the Picker Program is terrific. As have been the alumnae connections thereto.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of your input. </p>
<p>We'll be visiting all 3 shortly and D will go with her gut -- what I'm hearing from all of you is that they're all worth the money... is that right?</p>
<p>We can make it work, but ultimately, we not only want D to be happy, but to be employable too... she's a complex kid - our reason for choosing a LAC is so that she can sort out her many passions, and find some really interesting career -- I don't see her training for 1 profession only... it'll be some interesting cross-discipline thing I'm sure. </p>
<p>I do see grad school in the future, and it could be law school, and it does seem like Wellesley has a better rate of entrance, or am I missing something? I'm not familiar with law schools and don't know much about "pre-professional" vs. not...</p>
<p>Anyone look at Wesleyan vs. Smith? They seem to have some similar characteristics as well, realizing that one is obviously co-ed...</p>
<p>Irner, you are going to find very noticeable differences among the 3 schools - distinct atmospheres, facilities and neighborhoods. I expect your D will clearly have two favorites from your trip, just from the drive to the campuses! </p>
<p>Our nephew attends Wesleyan pre-health and we briefly considered it with D. Great school for him, but we couldn't get D interested in scoping it out - that's a whole 'nother story. We've been focused on finding the advisors, learning programs and 'fun things' that seem to best match our daughter's particular intellectual strengths and artistic needs. We've found no evidence to sway us from either S or W. Besides, after visiting Amherst College, D practically melted into the sofa at Smith's admissions building. Perhaps you'll see why she felt so at ease when you get there. Take a few minutes to look out the windows toward the pond. </p>
<p>We're also going to W's open campus days in a couple of weeks and D will stay overnight. That will tell it all then the winner will be... Hope you have sunny days. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>Sounds like we may be crossing paths -- we'll have to compare notes after our visits! </p>
<p>Why wouldn't your D look at Wesleyan? More her not finding a fit, or something else? What has been best for your nephew there? What about the quality of teaching vs. Smith?</p>
<p>Hi everyone! I'll be Class of '11, and am trying to decide between a number of LACs, including Smith, Wesleyan, and Wellesley. My big dilemma has been that though I absolutely loved my Smith visit, Wellesley and Wesleyan have more opportunities/better reputations after graduation--like Irner brought up, I need to justify to my family spending this much, and a high-paying job will certainly help! I know I could be happy at any of my schools, but my "gut" says Smith, with Wellesley and Wesleyan tied for number two--though they are at opposite ends of a spectrum, with Smith in the middle. Am I overanalyzing?</p>
<p>I looked at Wesleyan. </p>
<p>The co-ed difference is the easy one. In fact, Wesleyan is very co-ed. I believe that you're allowed to have a roommate of the opposite gender. Wesleyan is also extremely careful about maintaining a 50-50 male/female ratio on campus, unlike some LACs that these days slide towards 60-ish percent female. </p>
<p>Location is one of the biggest differences. Middletown, which is where Wesleyan is located, pales in comparison to Northampton. Middletown was one factor that turned me off from Wesleyan, while Northampton was a good thing about Smith. Middletown seemed dull, and a bit shady, compared to Northampton.</p>
<p>Wesleyan is technically a university, but it's really considered a LAC. Still, I think its graduate program is bigger than Smith's. Its overall enrollment is slightly bigger than Smith's.</p>
<p>I've heard some complaints about drugs at Wesleyan. I don't know if this is a valid complaint or just a rumor. Don't know how Smith compares in that regard. Wesleyan also has frats (but no sororities, I believe). No Greek life at Smith.</p>
<p>Both have open curriculums. </p>
<p>Both are very liberal in outlook. Both are political. </p>
<p>I don't think one school is any better known than the other. Both Smith and Wesleyan are probably a bit less famous than Wellesley.</p>
<p>My suggestion? Consider the co-ed/single sex and location issues carefully. She should also sit in on classes on a topic that suits her interest (I suppose international relations). Other than that, she should go with her gut (which is what I hope to do when I do my overnights).</p>
<p>For boudicca: i think "gut" is better than reputation. Even if there is a difference in the reputations of the three schools, it's probably too small to be important.</p>
<p>I visited Smith, Wellesley, and Wesleyan. I ended up only applying to Smith because of the "gut" factor. </p>
<p>On another note, in the Philidelphia area, I visited Haverford, Bryn Mawr, and Swarthmore. Swarthmore probably has the "best" reputation academically out of the three, but it was the only one of the three I didn't apply to. Why? My gut.</p>
<p>Boudicca, I just have to challenge the notion that Wellesley and Wesleyan will give its grads better jobs after graduation. Or better reps? On what do you base this? </p>
<p>Smith compiles a list of where their recent grads have gone after graduation. It's a pretty impressive list. As would be the other two. I don't recall if it's on their website or one of the printed propaganda pieces but it looked pretty darned good to me.</p>
<p>Arianne, funny, but while D applied to Stanford, <em>my</em> gut wasn't all that impressed when we visited. And Columbia was a disappointment to all of us. (Had been D's #1 on paper before visiting.)</p>
<p>Boudicca, I definitely had such a hard time choosing between Smith. For a long time I felt that I couldn't justify choosing Smith over Wellesley just because I knew there would be more "instant" opportunities for me living near Boston than at Smith, and because Wellesley's academics are so consistantly ranked over Smith in the public eye. I was also given slightly better financial aid at Wellesley. </p>
<p>But honestly, I am going to tell you to go with your gut. When someone's choosing between colleges, they may not always have a gut reaction, but if you do, go with it. I'm at Smith now and I can tell you that I am almost completely sure I would have been so deeply unhappy at Wellesley. As arianneag said, the difference in terms of reputation between the three schools is really too small to make that much of a difference. </p>
<p>Smith sends a significant portion of its graduate students to excellent graduate programs, med schools, law schools, etc so there's really no reason to worry about opportunities once you get out of Smith. There are excellent Smith Alumnae connections in the States as well as abroad. If you don't believe me, check out the alum binders in the CDO. Once a Smithie, always a Smithie, so you can access the CDO's databases from the time you step foot on Smith until your dying day. </p>
<p>The only reason I would tell you to choose Wellesley or Wesleyan over Smith at this point would be if you're interested in studying something that has an extremely weak department at smith or a significantly stronger department elsewhere. For instance, when I was choosing colleges I was strongly considering an International Relations major, which is a major that Smith does not offer (although it does offer a minor). Int'l Relations is also something that Wellesley is notorious for, so I had a hard time with choosing between GW's Elliott School, Wellesley, and Smith. In the end, I wasn't really sure I wanted to dedicate my life to Int'l Relations, which eliminated GW from the running. My college visits to W and S decided the rest in my subconscious, even though I didn't know it for a few days after I came back home.</p>