<p>As usual, I've got conflicting advice on lessons for a young girl from voice teachers.</p>
<p>Any feedback?</p>
<p>My daughter started voice training at 13 but her voice teacher has kids as young as 7 or 8, I think. It all depends on the teacher. A good teacher will teach proper technique and won't strain a voice, or push it before it's ready. They can certainly work with an 11 year old on performance, mastering nerves, choosing material, etc. You just have to find the right person. I'm partial to someone who has classical training but doesn't force any particular style and makes sure the kids are having fun. A brief warning--it's expensive, much more than I would have thought! Good luck.</p>
<p>This is actually the topic of discussion at the University of Pittsburgh Voice Center (where I work) grand rounds on Friday - the young female singer and our recommendations for study, rep, etc. I will report back by early next week. :) (In general, I would say the appropriateness of lessons for an 11 year-old depends both on the voice and the training...more details soon.)</p>
<p>Thanks to both of you. Coach, I eagerly await your information. Thanks for participating on this board.</p>
<p>I'll be interested in Coach C's comments also, although I no longer have a daughter that young. My daughter did start "voice lessons" when she was about nine, but her classically-trained teacher did not push her too fast or too far. Her lessons were as much, if not more, about technique (diction, breath support, phrasing) than about actual singing. She started out singing a lot of Disney and musical theatre songs, with hymns and praise songs thrown in the mix since her teacher also directed a girls' choir at our church. We switched teachers when my daughter was in 9th grade, and even then, her lessons were more of the "vocal lite" variety. The summer after 9th grade, my daughter went through a remarkable voice change, and only then did her teacher start what I would consider to be serious voice lessons.</p>
<p>My teacher does group lessons for younger kids (I'm not EXACTLY sure what his age cutoff [high or low] is). I think that's a really good idea in that students get to learn the basics of vocal technique without the stress of an individual lesson, and also get to make friends that they will probably see at the studio for years to come!</p>
<p>However, I have seen that kids who start SERIOUS voice lessons REALLY young can have a lot of vocal problems, in that their voices are started to be manipulated while they're still growing a lot. It's definitely important that the teacher understands how young voices work and how they're not that same as more mature voices!</p>
<p>The CCM-prep program, which is related to the CCM program BUT does not have overlapping faculy or policies, does not recommend private voice lessons for under 13. The have group lessons in "age bands" of kids that work on technique, some solo and small group singing, and putting actions to songs. They do have a staff of private voice teachers that they will not place students with until 13 unless there are exceptional reasons to do so. D had a friend singing at Carnigie Hall at 12, they let her do privates.</p>
<p>They claim and this was certainly true for my D, that many of the technique aspects of voice are boring for young kids to work on and the one-on-one is too intense so many kids find they don't enjoy it. Now the program serves 2 different groups - one are kids doing theatre and MT for enrichment (which is actually what their stance is for all young kids), then there is a much smaller group who are "working" so to speak and see performance arts as their future. Most of these kids take provate lessons elsewhere if they want them.</p>
<p>My D started voice lesson at 11 but then we quit for several years since they didn't seem worth the money and certainly not worth the complaining. The biggest limitations I see with this, is it limited her repetoire and when she did have to audition we had a scramble to get music and accompaniment.</p>
<p>Her teacher now is very technique oriented and D now likes this as she can intellectually integrate the biology and physiology with vocal sounds. She can hear the differences in her voice with things like changing jaw positions.</p>
<p>I don't know about you, but my D was actually singing before she could talk. She was humming and cooing melodies in her crib at about 9 months! I would say that teaching young kids warm up methods, phrasing, breathing, dynamics, diction & vowel pronunciation can be very beneficial. I direct youth theatre and we do this in a group setting, but soloists also work with the musical director. Classical voice training should in my opinion start at 13-14, but learning the above mentioned can actually help prevent injury and the development of bad habits that must by "unlearned" once classical training begins.</p>
<p>My D, too, began singing quite early. But it never occurred to us to place her in voice lessons until she entered middle school and began singing in the chorus and developed a real interest in studying voice. By then, she was 13, which we were told was a good age.</p>
<p>I suppose I should give a bit more information. Several of my children have been involved in theater growing up, and most of those in musical theater. My last one (#8) probably has the best voice of all of them. She has that "Annie" sound and volume. She is actually clamoring for voice lessons, and I think I know her well enough to know that she will work hard and see the lessons as a privilege.</p>
<p>Others of my children had lessons, but generally didn't begin until early teens. But the thing is, many children #8 knows have been taking lessons since a very early age. And I've gotten advice from some saying this is bad for them, and from others saying it's good for them or, at least, won't hurt.</p>
<p>Since some people think voice lessons that young are a bad thing, I posted to get some feedback from others who have been through this. What you've told me so far has been very helpful.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>when i was 10, i took voice lessons that were specifically designed to teach me to breath because 10 is way too early to have really formal and specific voice lessons, in my opinion...but i think it was really good that I had lessons that were about breathing....then when i was 14, i resumed and started formal lessons. i think 13 is the earliest that someone should start voice lessons that aren't just for breathing. It's not good to have them earlier than that because your voice simply isn't ready for it.</p>
<p>I'll share our experiences but am not an expert on voice at all. But like most here, my daughter has been singing since she was a tot. And of course as a youngster, she was in things like chorus and many musicals. But she did not take voice lessons. The voice teacher she eventually took with didn't start until kids were 12, though we hadn't truly looked into it before then anyway. I remember many kids at her camp had voice teachers back home but she didn't. They'd assume she had one and asked who she studied with but she didn't. But at 12, she wanted one and we luckily knew about a good one 50 miles from where we live and she studied with him up until college. I had known about him and had heard he preferred to wait until kids were 12 to start. In the last couple of years, I have noticed that he has taken a few kids around age 10-11 but he hadn't used to. Primarily he works with teens through adults and also teaches in program for college age and older. So, it is not like all of our kids were not singing and performing before age 12 or 13 but just didn't formally study voice. My daughter started the lessons at the beginning of seventh grade and was about to turn 12. It seems to have been the right amount of prep prior to college and in fact, she went to college at 16 1/2 and so it worked out. Just because a kid hasn't had formal voice lessons until the middle school years, doesn't mean she hasn't been involved in music and singing until that age. I imagine her voice teacher had good reason for not wanting to start them before age 12 generally speaking.</p>
<p>Just for fun, I checked out (online) when the prestigious Peabody Conservatory's prep division allows children to begin taking voice/vocal lessons, and they require a kid to be 13. I do think kids sing in the Peabody Children's Chorus at younger ages, but 13 seems to the baseline. Of course, as soozievt points out, some kids start earlier and some start later, with good results. I will be interested in what Coach C says!</p>
<p>I can't speak to when someone SHOULD start to study voice in terms of health and technically and all that. But given that I know many who started around middle school with formal lessons and have done well seeking college training programs, etc., it seems time enough to begin. I don't think one should necessarily start earlier with the motivation that it will be some "advantage" to start sooner. I am not against starting sooner but just don't think it is necessary in order to be successful in pursuing this field, that's all. My daughter's roomie and CAP21 classmate, started studying with the same voice teacher as my D around the same age (middle school) and is now the lead in a musical at CAP. When my D was turning 11, she was cast in NYC in a two person opera (the other person being an adult with a degree from CMU and Broadway credits) to be performed with various well known symphonies and she was up against kids with Broadway credits who I am sure were getting voice lessons, acting lessons, etc., none of which my D had had. So, even without formal voice lessons, she still was cast professionally at that age. Of course, once she was a teen, she'd be behind if she had no voice lessons. So, yes, these are very important for those seeking a musical theater career and a college BFA program but no need to formally begin voice training before middle school, from what I have observed. Again, I'm not talking as a voice expert, but simply in terms of preparation and experience and goals.</p>
<p>My daughter didn't start voice lessons until she was 16, although she did always sing in school chorus. I would now consider 16 very late. If I had known then what I know now, I would think 12 or 13 would be much preferable if you are serious about MT. We just didn't know!</p>
<p>I teach a lot of voice lessons to kids...this is just my opinion based on my observations..... I think the obvious thing to remember is that at age 11 the body is still growing... the vocal chords and all the muscles that work together in the process of singing are still developing.... The important thing is that the student who loves to sing is singing as much as possible.... Chorus, church, the shower, walking down the street... wherever.... if kids LIKE to sing they WILL sing, and all of these muscles will grow stronger as their bodies are growing..... formal lessons are more of a psychological boost.... as with ANY lessons... you have to practice many hours BESIDES just singing at the lesson... so I repeat... the student will get more out of singing in groups if they are doing it everyday and if they LOVE to sing.</p>
<p>Kids bodies are very resilient in many ways...we all know that... GENERALLY... an 11 year old is not going to hurt their voice singing unless they are already speaking incorrectly, or SCREAMING a lot (at sports events, etc), or just belting/screaming when they sing. </p>
<p>I agree....I think 13 is a better age to start lessons than 11... but kids should be singing from the time they can speak as often as possible....</p>
<p>Don't second guess yourself, nydancermom! Your D's done pretty darn well! Penn State MT is lucky to have her! Congratulations to both of you.</p>
<p>My conclusion after looking at this over the years is that NOT voice lessons per se, but lessons that teach the correct breathing. A lot depends on finding a teacher who understands that the mission is breathing, posture, etc. My daughter had a handful of early lessons, not regular lessons. Many professionals in the field are aghast at early lessons. Nonetheless, it still is appropriate to teach breathing. Sometimes this can be done very well in group lessons or even with an excellent school choir teacher, if you have one.</p>
<p>Breathing is absolutely key, but it goes hand-in-hand with something that many teachers overlook - eliminating tension in the laryngeal, neck, and jaw musculature. The breathing has to be coordinated (meaning primarily a controlled exhale without breath-holding of any type) but just as key is that the musculature is not being "forced" to produce sound. If the breathing is coordinated, a great sound can be produced when the musculature is relaxed - but a pretty good sound that may sound "great" to untrained ears can be produced with pressed phonation (an umbrella term that basically covers pushing the sound/tensing the muscles in many ways). Many young women who are lauded for "natural" belts and therefore build their vocal self-concept around this idea produce sound with pressed phonation - but legit singers can press, too. That's why it's KEY to have a teacher who REALLY knows what he or she is hearing and, perhaps more importantly, can instill the idea "DON'T PRESS" into young singers - which is what many of them will do when trying to mimic their favorite pop singers or MT pop-contemporary singers (Idina, Shoshanna, etc.).</p>
<p>More to come after Grand Rounds tomorrow... ;)</p>