@momcares- you hit on exactly the point that came to mind when I first read that statistic in voiceteacher’s post. If you get into Harvard (or any of a dozen top programs) medical, and are successful there- you are pretty much guaranteed a career. But getting into the BFA program Michigan (or a dozen other top programs) is only one step in a process that will NEVER have any guarantees. I heard an anecdote a couple years ago from Daisy Egan - where she reminisced about putting “tony award winner” on an application for a survival job (I think it it was Starbucks). I say this not to be discouraging, but to point out the statistic above is not comparing apples and apples.
Loved your post @Voiceteacher. As always thank you for all you do! I was on one of your blogs just last night. And I LOVE the analogy.
I always appreciate @VoiceTeacher’s posts as well, and have said so often! 
More comparable statistics might be the % admitted after a rigorous talent pre-screen?
i don’t think you can compare them at all, except to say that they are both very difficult in completely different ways. (And because life is unfair, more difficult for some people than others.)
@MomCares I love that quote!
I will say that while I agree that the audition numbers may be somewhat inflated by “applicants who are totally unqualified”, I think that is really a small number, and lessened to a degree as more and more schools adopt pre-screens before inviting students to audition. I also think that there are not that many students who are passionate enough to go into this field if they really are so unqualified that they don’t have a chance. Also, we all know highly qualified people who have not been accepted into BFA programs but who are successful in the profession. I just think the amount of talent outstrips the number of spots. It is a supply and demand thing.
I will also say that this admissions process is unique because applicants are judged largely on subjective criteria such as talent (that is difficult to quantify) as well as physical appearance, “type” and other factors that never come into play in other fields of study. That is not good or bad, it is just a fact of life for actors in general. Performance majors (MT, music, VP, etc) have an incredibly high stakes admission process - you win or lose based on a very, very tiny amount of time spent in front of a very small panel of people. It is daunting, so I am thankful for the wisdom I have found here as we navigate through the craziness. Hope I can pay it forward and help someone else someday!
I agree that the number of unqualified ( and I would add unprepared) students is probably small from what I personally have seen. There is so much out of your control in this process and a coach can help guide you through and help you keep your sanity. With Mary Anna’s book as well as a few other available books and blogs, it seems to me that most students are putting their best out there. They are talented, teachable, have the right audition material, etc. I remember hearing it said at Moonifieds that the schools were all commenting on how authentic the performances were this year. I would even guess that with each passing year, the students and parents are more knowledgeable and prepared. We would not have wanted to attempt this process without a coach, but it is not impossible to do given the wealth of information out there and also here on CC. I MHO, the earlier you start your preparation and training, the better. And I really think the talent is plentiful and selection is VERY subjective and type driven, which is completely out of your control and completely out of any coach’s control.
The unprepared are out there - my D’s audition year we found out AFTER the fact that a friend of hers auditioned at a BFA MT program in state. It’s not on the big list - draws from a more regional market - but still competitive. She didn’t get in - we felt so bad - we don’t know why she didn’t just ask for a little advice from us - she’s been friends with D for years, and knew what kind of prep she had been doing. At the very least - we could have steered her away from one of her song choices - a very heavy hitter on the “Do Not Sing” list - and not really good for showing her off to her best potential. I don’t know if advice from us would have changed her outcome - but it certainly couldn’t have hurt her chances! I think for her - it was a whim - she loved doing MT in HS - was planning to attend that college no matter what - and decided to see if she could get into the program. I think that happens more often than we might realize!
^^^I agree. There are those in the application pool to MT programs who are truly not contenders for admission. There are many unrealistic people. That leaves tons of very talented and prepared people too. On CC, we tend to see the ones who are prepped. But there are many out there who have no clue. I think the prescreen process was developed, in part, to eliminate those who would not be considered for admission and to not bothering to have them fill up the audition days.
Great points - can you imagine if all successful med students had to be as attractive as our MTs? 
And I didn’t mean to suggest that a high percentage of MT applicants are unqualified to study or work as MTs, only that I’d guess a reasonably high percentage aren’t serious contenders for “the Harvards of MT”, yet there are no objective criteria that enable us to self-select and not bother applying for schools for which we have little chance, as is rather easily done with more objective measures like test scores and GPAs. I think that subjective narrowing of the field of schools to bother to apply to may be one thing many people hope coaches may offer (not sure since we never hired coaches).
And there is the big fish syndrome as well,. I have known kids who were very talented who did they did not need any additional assistance because they had always been so successful in local casting. Sometimes, they found out the hard way, that the larger pool is different.
I know a few big fishes who didn’t bother to look for schools without name recognition and suffered because of it. And that is fine! But those of us who were smaller fish but prepared extensively and auditioned for a wide variety of programs had much more success in terms of admission. There are also people who just audition “to see what happens” at the really well-known schools, or decide that if they can’t get in to one of those it’s not worth pursuing theatre. If you ask me, that’s crap for like as many reasons as there are dollars in a year of tuition, but I guess if you are stuck in the “I’ll give up if they don’t think I am good enough” mindset then theatre is not a great career choice anyway! (Not that a BFA/college theatre degree is only useful in theatre.)
H and I are graduates from what was, in the '90’s, the most selective med school in the country. (Surprisingly it was not Harvard, which at that time was #2) The parallels drawn between med school & MT admissions are spot on. That’s why I’m incredibly grateful for the wealth of information available on CC.
@MomCares - I agree that the stats I posted are not scientific and that was not my intent. This is time of year a lot kids are finding out that they did not get into their dream schools and they are understandably crushed in many cases. It is one thing to tell them this is competitive, but I think it is another to give a real life example of just how competitive. Everyone knows the Harvard name and I just hoped that my “stat” would give some much needed perspective on the whole thing.
~VT
Yes, yes, yes @Cornycollins18 and @Voiceteacher. Go Class of 2019. Cheers to all. :x
MTCA coaches are, for the most part, working performers with their own rehearsal schedules and eight shows a week. It’s not reasonable to expect them to always be available when it’s convenient for the student. Flexibility is key. The alternative - coaches who are not working actors/singers/dancers themselves - will allow for greater availability if that is the highest priority. I preferred that the kid’s mentors were succeeding as artists in our extremely competitive market. That’s a personal preference thing.
MTCA counselors work with the student to construct a well-balanced list, which always includes non-audition programs, BFAs, and less competitive schools. If we had been unsatisfied in the guidance our kid was receiving, we would have called Ellen Lettrich (MTCA head honcho) to discuss making changes. She is very available and very approachable.
Here’s a question the kid and I have addressed several times: If a child shows up for coaching who the professionals cannot envision gaining admission to a BFA (can’t act well, un-lovely voice, awkward dancer with an unappealing appearance) is it the coach’s job to tell that child that they will never succeed and they should cut bait now? Or is it the coaches’ job to prepare that student to put forward the strongest audition possible for him/her given those limitations? Is it the coach’s place to screen out hopefuls? Anybody else struggle with that hypothetical or is it clearer cut for you?
^Son came late to the party, mid-Junior year. I sought out folks to give an honest appraisal of his “talents” before we went down the preparation/audition road. Each person encouraged son to go forward, but with the caveat that the outcome is not guaranteed to be an admission to an audition based program. I wanted someone with knowledge to let him/us know if he should choose another path.
@vocal1046 - I have thought about that as well, and I am certain there are unscrupulous coaches out there who take $$ from clients they know don’t have a snowball’s prayer, but I would like to think they aren’t the majority. Of course, I have wondered if the increase in the number of BFA programs available encourages kids who really don’t have much of shot either, since there are so many more “slots” available than there were say 20 years ago, but that is another conversation. Anyway, I don’t know if it is the coach’s job to tell a kid “there is no way”, but if asked for honest feedback, I think they should provide it, and they should help kids prepare the best audition possible.
I think it is important to get open and honest feedback as to one’s viability as a candidate for a BFA in MT program. Sometimes a student will have enough “benchmarks” that can be an indicator and include being in a wider talent pool in their background. But for those where it is unclear, I have recommended the student get an assessment from those in the field, which could be a MT coach (but doesn’t have to be) who has worked with others who have gone onto BFA in MT programs, and to give an honest assessment if the student is a viable candidate. For example, in the past, I recommended one such assessment to a student with Ellen, and they thought she wasn’t competitive for MT and so she applied to Acting programs instead. She ended up not getting into a BFA program but had several BA acceptances and attends Muhlenberg. I have had other “borderline” candidates who have gotten artistic evaluations from others too. This is no different than my doing an academic evaluation of a student’s chances at various colleges. It is important, in my view, to give an honest assessment that is realistic. Many people are NOT realistic about their academic odds or their artistic odds in college admissions. That is one reason to work with experts who might be able to guide them to build an appropriate college list for them that is realistic. I certainly believe in reaching high and striving for one’s goals, while at the same time having realistic goals and a college list that matches the candidate.
Make sure they know what they’re doing though. My S had a lot of people advising him to go the BA route, where he pretty much got shut out. (Much better luck with auditioned programs.)
@VoiceTeacher - I did get your intent, and as I said I absolutely agree with it! It’s just that the engineer in me feels the need to be more-than-usually careful with “data” – occupational hazard! 
On the subject of coaching, back when I was applying to acting conservatories I remember thinking one of the worst things would be to get such great audition coaching (totally informal coaching 100 years ago) that I was admitted to a program where they would later discover I actually didn’t belong. Or at the other extreme, to land in a school where I was a superstar, only to graduate and find that I was unemployable once I entered the giant casting pool in the professional world.
It’s a tricky business finding a school that’s what you want, and that wants you, yet somehow it seems that most people manage to do just that at the end of this crazy process (with or without audition coaching), and it seems that even those that don’t usually land firmly on their feet by the following year.
Sending good vibes to everyone still in play this year, and to all of those to come in future years!