@soozievt I take your point but things are markedly clearer cut when the advisor has solid objective measures to include in his/her assessment of the strength of a candidate. There really is no artistic equivalent of GPA, SAT, AP, or ACT. All the available measures are subjective, whether they come from coaches, teachers, advisors, Young Arts, one of these thespian things you guys mention, or Aunt Fanny. You might put more stock in one opinion than another but you will never have cold hard numbers. It’s certainly smart to solicit the opinion of someone like Ellen who has seen a ton of kids pass through the process. But I would wager that even Ellen has had some surprises every year about who does/doesn’t get in to this that or the other program - or any program at all.
Remember folks, a BFA is neither a requirement nor a guarantee in this industry. I’ve known many English majors, Classics majors, Psychology majors, and the like find regular employment, whereas plenty of baristas can boast of BFAs.
@vocal1046…I totally agree that assessing a candidate’s viability on the artistic ends of things is very subjective and not clear cut. Someone who can perform such an evaluation, can’t give an idea of where the candidate can get in, but should be able, nonetheless, to ascertain if the candidate is at least in the ballpark to even be considered to apply to these types of audition based programs. That is not foolproof either, but I think it helps at least know if one is on track to even pursue this type of degree program admission/audition process. Think of it as a baseline screening of sorts, not specific to a certain program but to even entering the game.
I think it can be very difficult to make artistic assessments - I know of a case where a grad of one of the “MT Ivies” worked with an auditioning student, and told her that she would absolutely be a great candidate for her alma mater. Unfortunately, that grad didn’t know just how much the level of preparedness of candidates had ramped up in the 10 years since she went through the process! This was one specific case, but I think it possible that it may apply to many.
This thread is so helpful! I heard about MTCA recently through this forum and had contacted them. They responded immediately and I am so happy to hear all the positive feedback! Although my D has done many many musical, she has not done Monologues, so having a coach,especially one who knows what colleges are looking for will be so important for her! Thanks again to all who help us newbies with your feedback!!
And how many ugly ducklings with two left feet, who sing like frogs go on to have brilliant careers? Maybe not many, but how many MIGHT there be if someone believed in them and helped them become the best clumsy, ugly duckling/frog there ever was? Will a coach be able to see a hidden “it” factor, or a drive to “make it” such as that described by VoiceTeacher, after one meeting or skype session? Not arguing. Just curious.
^^^^^oh I love this I love this! @mom4bwayboy There are so many performers who don’t have perfect flawless cookie cutter MT voices and many of them are household names. I mean, Ethel Merman was told she wouldn’t make it. Many stars today also don’t have the standard MT sound or super strong dance skills. I sometimes worry that my voice isn’t unique enough to match my type!
Just keep doing the work @MTVT2015. It might take a few years, but you’ll get there. S is just finishing freshman year at MT program. His voice did not drop until later than other males’, and even during his college audition season he did not have much of a range. He now knows there were probably songs that would have better showcased his voice as it truly was - not what he wished it to be. He feels that with different coaching, perhaps his audition “yield” may have been different. But he is VERY happy at his program, and it wasn’t until just a few weeks ago that he truly realized that he needs to find HIS “true voice”. He has heard the words before, but something finally clicked for him. He discussed this with his voice teacher, and together they are going to “find” it. Then his voice will be a true expression of “him”, not some other singer. It will take time. You are young. You and your voice will find each other, as well.
I totally believe this and completely understand it! I don’t think any coach or person could predict if a student is going to be admitted to a particular BFA in MT program (especially if it is a competitive one). There really is no way to do that. What I was talking about earlier is an evaluation of one’s skill set to see if pursuing BFA programs in MT OVERALL was a viable option, where the student at least stood some chance of being considered by at least one program. If someone really is not remotely “there” yet, then an honest assessment would help guide their college selection appropriately. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not exact. But some people have no realistic idea of what is involved. They may simply like MT and want to apply to these programs without a clue of what is needed to be a viable candidate and no idea of how competitive it is to be admitted. This happens on the academic end of things as well. A person’s college list should not be the same as the next kid’s list, not only due to preferences but also to their academic and artistic profile. Having an idea of some realistic odds of where they stand as a candidate, which is not the same as being accepted, will help create a more appropriate, balanced and realistic college list.
Yes, it’s true that no one knows if someone is a “late bloomer” or who will make it in this industry. But I do think a coach can give a reasonable evaluation of whether the student is CURRENTLY at a level to be competitive at BFA auditions. And yes, someone with raw talent and little training can still go far in the future…but if they’re competing against very, very trained talented people at BFA auditions, it will be harder to get an offer.
I definitely don’t think a coach should say “You have no talent” or “You’ll never make it.” But I think the coach SHOULD help students come up with a realistic list, including safety, match, and reach schools, just as any college counselor would. A student who is a gifted actor, singer, and dancer WITH tons of training could include more “reach” schools like CMU, while someone not as talented and with little training would need more non-auditioned BAs on their list.
Then, after helping them come up with the list, the coach should certainly coach the student to help show them at their best and to give the best audition of which that student is capable.
Out of curiosity @BroadwayVeteran - if you had never been on stage or taken a dance/singing class, what made you think you wanted to be a performer? You talked about having a “moment” - would you mind sharing?
Also, as is frequently discussed on CC the world of BFA admissions is not even REMOTELY the same as it was “back in the day” whether that was 10, or 20, or 30 years ago. There are so many more schools that offer programs, and yet…
I have read/heard a number of respected Bway people (Christian Borle for one) say that they don"t know if they would get into their program these days. No way of knowing of course.
Yeah, I agree with @toowonderful. The two things that jump out at me from BroadwayVeteran’s post are 1) “High schoolers with no training or experience can get into CMU, or any other program. I know, I was one of those kids” and 2) “I’ve been a professional actor for thirty-five years.”
So, with all due respect, your post proves only that 35 YEARS ago a kid with no training could get into a top MT school like CMU. A lot has changed since then!
When I graduated college in the 1980s with a BA in English and MA in journalism, the New York Times “Help Wanted” section was full of entry level jobs at newspapers and magazines. Finding a job was easy. But I would never say to a kid TODAY, “Oh, it will be easy for you to find a job! Because when I graduated, it was easy!”
Now, that does NOT mean that a kid with no experience has no chance of making it in this business. If he or she trains and works hard, there’s no telling how far he or she can go in future. But to say that a kid with no training or experience at all has a decent chance of getting into CMU or other top schools is unrealistic. Sure, they can try for it if they want to - why not? But they’d better have some good “safety” schools on that list too!
Hear, hear @BroadwayVeteran! Love this post. Becoming a life-long learner is EVERYTHING, no matter what your career path. And in the Arts being a “creator” ratchets that “learning” up to the next level. For our teens/twenty-somethings, becoming an “adult” can be the trickiest first step that paves the way for everything to come. Thank you.
My impression from two years ago was that some programs are still looking for diamonds in the rough, but CMU is not one of them. They can have whoever they want, and they tend to pick off the handsomest/most beautiful, best trained candidates. (I have a theory that you can tell which programs are most competitive by looking at how good-looking the boys are – not so much with girls because beautiful girls are everywhere.)
We were told the same about Michigan from a couple people. They said that Michigan mostly wants those who have had national professional experience. My D’s experience has mostly been with great professional theatres (around 25-30 shows with them), but these were regional, not national. (My h and I never had her try for national or Broadway shows.) Have others found that to be true? There were other reasons besides just this one that D didn’t go for Michigan, so I didn’t pursue this last year, but now I’m just curious.
We have several friends currently at Michigan or who have graduated from Michigan MT, none of whom have any national experience. So I don’t think that is true.
