<p>S1 graduated from the college a few years ago. S2 just started college. No more kids. No more college admissions, right?</p>
<p>Not exactly. S1 called and said that he had decided he wanted to go to law school. He took the LSAT and did well and now he's applied to several law schools. For the one he wants to go to, his LSAT score was above their 75th percentile, so he could get in, but the tuition alone is like $24K/yr.</p>
<p>But it's completely different now. He's older and on his own. I'm TOTALLY uninvolved in the whole process and it's up to him to figure out how he's going to pay for it. Right now he has a full time job making more money than he would after getting his law degree, but its something he wants to do.</p>
<p>But I'm curious... if you had an older kid that had been out of school for a few years, independent, in another state, etc., would you get involved in any way (e.g., any financial help)?</p>
<p>We've told our boys we will finance as much of their undergraduate education as we can, but they are on their own for graduate school. They will have to work, put in for teaching assistantships, take out loans, whatever it takes. My husband will be retiring soon after S2 graduates from college, and we just won't have any money to help them.</p>
<p>Heck no! DH and I both put ourselves through grad school while raising our two little childrens. Graduated with almost no debt due to parttime work and a fellowship! We wouldn't have dreamed of asking for financial assistance from our parents!</p>
<p>I think it's very hard to get fellowships for professional schools; the situation would be different if your kid were to go for a Ph.D., in which case there usually are fellowships available.
I know several people who worked for a while and were very successful. But precisely because they were successful, they felt that without a higher degree, they could not rise to the top. They had gotten to the point where they were expected to manage people with MBAs or Law degrees. So they went back to school. They used their savings and took out loans.
You mention your S has been working for a while. Has he some savings he could use toward his grad studies? He and you should calculate how much debt he will incur and what the impact will make on his post-law school plans. You might consider making him an interest-free loan if you have the means to do so, repayable over a period of time.</p>
<p>S did the same thing to us. Surprise, surprise. Announced at the beginning of senior year that he thought he'd go to law school. Job market for history/polisci majors didn't look good to him. He took the LSAT a month later and scored well enough to look at schools in the USNWR 20+ range (his grades were fine, but didn't match the LSAT performance). He had no undergrad debt. As far as our involvement, yes, we did help him round out his list of schools and we do provide some support for his living expenses. He got into some of the schools on his list with unexpected merit offers of $9000 to $15000 (both private and public). He is using his savings from summer jobs and internships. He's on the hook for subsidized Stafford loans as well as subsidized Perkins. He'll come out with debt of $33,000, half of which he's already consolidated at 2.75% (thank you, feds). He's quite appreciative of his education now that he's paying. Best of luck to your son. I wish mine had worked for a few years before law school. The average age of an entering law student is 25-26.</p>
<p>Some law schools do give money to students they really want. U of Richmond is one of these. For really top prospects there is also money to be gotten at more highly ranked schools.</p>
<p>Well, I may be a voice in the wildnerness...but I absolutely will pay for S's post-graduate school (including law school, if he continues his present interest in that course of action)--and I don't see my attitude changing if post-grad school comes after some time in the full-time work force; I'm disinclined to "insist" that he go straight from undergrad to grad/professional school. Nor do I think I'd change my mind if he got married in the interim...I want (badly) to fully pay for his education, if I can afford to do do--</p>
<p>"Affordability" is key--unlike undergrad, which I promised to pay for, in full (and had saved the money during his growing-up years to underpin that promise), he knows that my willingness to pay his post-grad tuition/living expenses is contingent on my ability to afford to do so. I don't have enough non-retirement funds saved to finance law school...but if I continue to work at my current level of earning, I may be able to pay for it...</p>
<p>For me, it comes down to this is what I (put some emphasis on the "I") want to do...I can't think of anything else I'd rather spend "extra" money on...my S knows this.</p>
<p>I paid my own way through law school (partly loans and partly full-time work while I did law school at night), and I did appreciate ithe education aspect substantially more than I appreciated undergrad--I paid about 1/2 of undergrad myself, thru scholarship, summer/break earnings and loans. And maybe S would, too--but it seems to me he's intellectually and emotionally appreciative right now, and aware that his education is a "gift" from his mother that means as much to his mother as it does to him. He shows no sign of "spoiled brat syndrome" or a sense of "entitlement." If he did, I might well change my mind about incurring the expense of his $43K/year undergrad and who-knows-how-much law school.</p>
<p>Anyway, I do consider it a "gift" and not an "obligation" or his "right"--and he knows that and shares that attitude. I think that's key to our situation.</p>
<p>Overanxious mother, your son is lucky to have a mother like you. I'm not sure my parents will pay for undergrad, forget grad school. In my father's mind, it's my job to work in a lucrative post-undergrad career. I will not say that my parents consider the cost of my education a burden but close to it since as of now I have nothing to show for their toil. In my culture, incurring large debts or paying gigantic tuitions is considered stupidity, unless you're aiming to be a doctor or attend a prestigious university. It's all about the practical vocational path, a.k.a the paycheck not that pHd in philosophy or that law degree.</p>
<p>You're not alone on this issue, overanxiousmom, but H and I are split on it. I'm for doing whatever we can financially; he's adamant that he won't pay beyond college. My opinion is definitely colored by my own college and postgrad experience. As the oldest of 6, my parents gave me limited choice of local colleges due to financial constraints, and of course I paid my own way for professional education. My H and I finished paying off our education debts only after we had 2 kids- took us over 10 years. I'd love to be able to help my dd and ds avoid that situation if we can at all help. I've been quoted as saying "I'll scrub floors at midnight at another job if I have to..." Well, that was my argument for financing whatever college they want to go to. I'll have to come up with another line in four years for grad school if that's in the picture!</p>
<p>We would like to be able to help pay for grad or professional school and will do so if possible. That was a major consideration in selecting an undergrad program that would not saddle either student or parents with alot of debt. </p>
<p>The longer our kids were in the work force, though, the more I would expect them to contribute. We would NOT lay out money for a kid who has been living the high life while we scrimped and saved. </p>
<p>If we came into alot of money :) and the school factor was not in play, I'd love to give my kids a house downpayment. Having never been out from behind the eight ball ourselves, I think such a gift would be wonderful!</p>
<p>My parents couldn't do much to help me financially when I was in undergraduate school. But, when I returned to to school to get my MBA 15 years later, they did help me out financially. They didn't pay the lion's share, but they gave me some money to help pay for tuition, books and child care. I would do the same for my kids, assuming I can financially do so.</p>
<p>Absolutely, I would get involved financially. Whether this was as an outright gift, a matching contribution or a loan would depend on my circumstances, the student's history, and a certain equity among the siblings.</p>
<p>One arrangement that has worked out well in my extended family is to help the young person with an partial education or house loan, and write the terms of the loan into the parents' will. Whatever is not paid back is deducted from the inheritance. There are federal rules that to family loans, so professional advice is necessary.</p>
<p>I'm paying for part of LS and feel guilty that I'm not paying all of it. My parents paid for all of LS for me, so I tend to think that's how it should be. </p>
<p>I'd rather give my kids $ for an education than leave them a lot of $ when I die--at which point they may have made compromises in their dreams due to financial restraints. </p>
<p>I think people tend to spend money on the things they value most. For me, that's an education. I know parents who won't pay for LS who have helped finance a car or given the kids a down payment for a house or paid for a big fancy wedding. Unless I win the lottery, I'll never do anything like that for my kids. I'm not condemning anyone who does, just saying I have different priorities. </p>
<p>For any of you who have kids who are interested in public service law, please keep in mind it may be cheaper to go to a more expensive law school with a good loan forgiveness program than to accept merit money from another law school.</p>
<p>Our daughter graduated more than three years ago and has been self-supporting ever since. At the time, she had money left in her college fund (she did us the great favor of going to a public university and insisted on working part time while going), and offered to give it back to us for our son's education (private, all the way.) We told her to hang onto it, until she knew her educational future. Now, she's decided to become an elementary school teacher -- and will be earning less than she does now.</p>
<p>We had always told both kids grad school would be their financial responsibility. But, given how much more we spent on our son's education than our daughter's, even though the choices were theirs; and given that she's chosen a field that will not allow her to make enough to pay back loans for a very long time; and given how financially responsible she has always been, I'm sure we will help if she needs it and we can. I don't know that any of these factors should count, but somehow they do.</p>
<p>I agree with you, jonri. It is not likely that either of my Ds will seek a professional school such as law or medicine, but one will likely seek a Ph.D. Hopefully there will be a fellowship for her. If either did want law or medicine, & I had the $$, & the D in question showed promise & had been responsible, I would support that goal with my pocketbook.</p>
<p>I really do feel that this is an area where law & medical schools can & should be much more proactive about fin. aid, but esp. toward URM's. AA's are really needed in medicine in general right now, for example; so are Latinos in some regions. In some States, a law degree will be no guarantee of a high-ncome practice, regardless of where you obtained that law degree. As to medicine, I currently know a couple in their late 50's who are still repaying loans for med school. I would think that a demonstrated commitment to practice medicine in underserved communities, for example, or in critical-need departments should be esp. rewarded with partial forgiveness of loans.</p>
<p>It's just financially not feasible for us, dealing as we are with a huge depletion in our income. But it's very doable for students to do for themselves--either thru fellowships, or for prof school, loans which presumably they'lll be in a position to pay off because of earning ability. H did med school while we had small kids, and we financed entirely through loans, and still he was able to choose a lower paying specialty and area to work in, because we kept our cost of living low. Our kids never e xpect to be wealthy, and don't have many material needs, which will stand them in good stead for future choices.</p>
<p>When our DS went off to college - it was with the understanding that we could only help out with the undergrad piece - and in the mean time my DH and I both went thru some difficult financial stuff - both ended up in the unemployment line in the same week in DS's senior year of college. Needless to say - grad school was not in the picture for us - tho he already know that. He graduated with approximately 1 years of tuition in debt in all - so that was not the worse case scenerio he could have had.</p>
<p>DS - not really knowing what he wanted to do after graduation - took a year off and did several things. During that time - we received a call from his college advisor about a grad school opportunity - which we very happily passed on to DS. </p>
<p>Well - he took the bull by the horns and did EVERYTHING that had to be done - including negotiating a tuition waiver - and a paid grad student internship/position - in exchange for doing some research and work hours. His only expense was his living expenses - which he paid himself by working - he actually accomplished this at 2 different grad schools - and graduated in 2 years with his masters - debt free!!!</p>
<p>Our DD will be in a completely different place when she graduates - much deeper in debt - tho we feel that she is not on her way to grad school any time soon - I say that because of her dreams and the direction she has chosen to go after graduation. We will help her with her debt tho she will bear some responsibility herself.</p>
<p>If I win the lottery any time soon - they will both have all their education debts paid - keeping my fingers XXXXX'd LOL</p>
<p>Oooh, tough question. H. and I have just started to grapple these thoughts. Older s. had always talked of physics grad school, and we assumed that'd be funded by grants or TA positions. Well, now, since he's studying physics and mech. engineering, he might consider engineering grad school. Less likely to be paid out of someone elses pocket. Then, enter s.# 2 who will start college right after s#1 graduates. And he is now making rumblings about a business degree and possible MBA. AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!! :eek: Our pockets just aren't that deep. Oh, and did I mention that h.'s job runs the risk of being outsourced? For us, we will probably just wait this out and see what happens. I would offer to help contribute to grad school education if we are at all able, because, like several others in posts above, we value education and feel it is worth investing in (within reason). Knowing my kids, if they knew it would be a challenge for us, they'd probably turn the offer down (I think..). </p>
<p>I gather, dig, that the company for which your s. works does not offer incentives such as tuition assistance, or if they do, only if it relates to their current employment? It doesn't hurt for your s. to check out that possibility. Another (albeit scary) thought is to consider letting the U.S. armed forces pay for law school. He'd then owe them service back, but they don't usually send attorneys to the front line. One last thought-- as I think back on the articles Carolyn referenced in the Atlantic Monthly. Sometimes it feel really good to get a small "scholarship". Perhaps you could offer to give him, say a thousand or so a year when he is in law school. That's a nice gesture. Feels good all the way around. By the summer after his second year, he's likely to have $$ from clerking somewhere, and might not even need that third year contribution. Good luck!</p>
<p>JYM-- 3 thoughts for you-- lots of schools (Columbia is one) offers a 4 semester, no break MBA (i.e. you can finish in 14 months). It's expensive, it requires loans out the whazoo, but the opportunity cost of being unemployed is less than for a 2 year program, and most people find that the income boost from a top school more than compensates for the debt.<br>
Alternatively, many employers will pay for business school for a top performing employee. (Usually, they arrange a third party loan which they forgive after the employee returns and stays for a period of time).</p>
<p>Finally, there are part time and "executive " programs for employed adults. Many excellent programs which allow you to continue working while completing the MBA.</p>
<p>I can't imagine a scenario where a parent would feel compelled to pay for B-school. If the student doesn't have enough professional focus to know what their employment prospects will be coming out of school, encourage him/her to wait another year before starting a program. Even non-profits which hire MBA's usually pay enough to allow a student to live and pay off the loans.</p>
<p>That's a good suggestion. I need to explain further since I feel two inches tall that I'm not supporting S1 financially:</p>
<p>First, there's the matter of money. I was out of work for a period (before I got called back to the same company at 75-80% of my former pay). During that period, much of S2's college fund (about half) became the household fund. Luckily he got a great scholarship, but there will be a shortage of funds soon.</p>
<p>Second, S1 is older than you might think. He graduated from college over 10 years ago, has had several businesses (one that employed over 20 people), and is living with an SO. It's not at all like he is just out of school or only a few years out.</p>
<p>He is a contractor for the company he works for, so the normal benefits that you would associate with employment are not there. Besides, I doubt if a company would pay for law school.</p>
<p>The program he wants to get into is a joint JD/MBA program, which will extend the perid of being in school (thus more $$$).</p>
<p>It's a difficult thing, but I've told both of my sons that I'm too close to retirement to afford any grad school. But I do like jym's suggestion above. My parents were never able to give me any money for college (except for my bus ticket to get there). BUT when I was a senior, they somehow scraped together $500 and gave it to me. It felt like a lot more because it was so unexpected.</p>