college fencing recruiting

Athletic Recruits
421

@stencils - @sherpa and @superdomestique have more firsthand experience than I do (for the time being ;). I think that most schools try to give as many fencers as possible the opportunity to reach the minimum number of bouts (I think it is 24) necessary to qualify for Regionals. Depending on the level of competition during the regular season, the coach may choose to rotate fencers in order to accumulate the minimum for as many fencers as possible. Most college meets are multi-team, usually including at least 4 teams, so there is plenty of room to accumulate bouts.For perspective, however, it is probably a lot if one team has 4-5 from one gender/one weapon at Regionals, so we are not talking about a lot of slots in any case. Post-Regionals is where it boils down to the maximum of 2 fencers per weapon, per gender that may receive berths to compete in the NCAA National Championship. There are formulaic ā€œpower ratingsā€ that factor in seasonal as well as Regionals performance, but it may ultimately come down to the coachā€™s or even the teamā€™s decision regarding berths.

So directly to your question, if your fencer is joining a squad that is deep in talent in your gender/weapon, the competition will be that much fiercer for a berth to Regionals and even moreso (not quite a real word, but getting thereā€¦) to Championships. I actually find this to be a critical question often asked by recruits and their parents. Do I want to be a potential ā€œbench warmerā€ on very competitive DV1 team or a starter (or even a potential star) on a less competitive team? Ancillary to this question is the straightforward strategy of parlaying national fencing success into a slot at a top school. While being the #1 recruit is great and affords a multitude of offers, top schools, e.g., Yale and Brown, often play 2nd fiddle to the elite schools with more competitive fencing programs, but can afford a great landing place for fencers a bit lower on the recruiting depth chart, but strategic enough to take advantage.

422

Also keep in mind that for schools with fencers who are active on the international circuit (either at Junior or Senior level), there are still NCAA dual meets to fenceā€¦so people who are lower down on the roster may have more opportunities to fence/start than might be apparent from just looking at a roster.

423

Well, you are all bringing up some serious points! I guess that there is so much to consider.Thank you!!
Right now we are dealing with AP, subject tests and SAT.

How best to present the grades/scores for July 1?

Also should we make appointments with all the coaches or is it reasonable to expect that all he top schools will be there?

Thank you again for all your help!

424

@BrooklynRye gives an excellent summary to which I have little to add. As BrooklynRye suggests, the coach is afforded the option of how to fill the berths among multiple fencers on the team who qualify for NCAA Championships. For example one year four Princeton mens foilists qualified from their region and all four traveled to Championships even though Princeton was limited to allowing two to compete. Which two competed and which were alternates was entirely the coachā€™s option.

Edit to add - For a team to qualify more than two fencers in a weapon is relatively uncommon and, when it does happen, most often the coach will enter the two who ranked highest in their Region.

425

Assuming you have had no contact with any coaches and that you do not intend to visit any schools or to meet with any coaches prior to Summer Nationals, I suggest that you send an introductory email to the coach at every school in which your daughter is possibly interested. Clearly, you are sending this to your top choices, but donā€™t limit yourself. Have a strategy in place that allows you to fall back to schools lower on your list. You can probably afford to pass on ā€œsafeā€ schools for now, but donā€™t be too-too selective for the time being. In addition to introducing your daughter to each coach, detail her GPA and best board scores. Also include a resumeā€™ showing her extracurricular activities, work experience, and community service. Schools will eventually want official transcripts and score reports but the initial contact will provide them with the basis for proceeding. Express your interest in meeting with each of these coaches in Dallas. Be prepared to provide days and times during which your daughter will be available, i.e., is not competing. You may also need to arrive earlier and/or stay later to cover all your meetings. There should be at least a representative from each school, if not the actual head coach, in Dallas. Should a coach indicate that he or she will not be in Dallas, and that coach is at a top choice, you may want to consider visiting the school and meeting with the coach prior or shortly after Dallas. Last, but not least, review the myriad of posts on this cite detailing this process!!

426

@fencingmom1

Excellent post by @brooklynrye.

There is a lot of ā€œinstitutional memoryā€ on this thread for fencers (and their parents) who are in the same position your family is in.

The ā€œgreatest hitsā€ would be: any or all of @sherpaā€™s posts (especially #308 & #368), @brooklynryeā€™s insights on early-recruiting (#361, #367 & #370) and some of my own on general topics (#267, #284, #359, #363, #369 and #391). I think most of the questions and concerns a parent of a recruitable fencer might have are addressed, at least initially.

A few additional thoughts:

  1. You should try to schedule appointments for SN as soon as possible. Others on CC can attest that if you havenā€™t done this yet, you are late. Additionally, as it is an Olympic year, there is a possibility that some college coaches will be in Rio (instead of SN) helping prepare their fencers. If the coach of a college program you want to meet is not at SN, you should try to meet them now. A lot of college recruiting decisions are made in the days and weeks after SN.
  2. Your club coach (if he/she hasnā€™t already) should be active in calling the coaches of the college programs your daughter is interested in. This insight should give you an idea of which programs have needs in your daughterā€™s recruitment year. This will help in expectations management.

Hopefully, you have already done all these things and are just being coy. However if you are as late as you appear to be, you better get going. College fencing recruiting can be a game of musical chairs and the music is playing!

427

To follow up on @sevendadā€™s post and to address @stencils question, I think it is fair to say that the larger schools (and perhaps more athletically focused) tend to have larger fencing programs.

The reason for this, however, is not solely attributable to the larger populations at the bigger schools, but rather because there are fencers who are continuing their national or international ambitions, and occasionally these NAC or WC events fall on the same weekend as NCAA competitions. As a consequence, some of the larger programs need to have enough fencers for 2 squads, and everyone on the team get to compete to some degree, albeit at different times/levels. At the Ivyā€™s, it seems like Columbia tends to run a larger squad for precisely this reason.

During the recruiting process, a coach at one of the larger academically-elite programs told us that bout results from daily practices were tracked and used to choose who would go to NCAA competitions. This type of environment may be what @stencils was referring to. There are good and bad aspects to this approach, however I will say that programs with smaller squads may seem more supportive.

At another program (an Ivy powerhouse), because the coach ran such a small/tight squad, he had an expectation that NCAA events would always take priority over NAC/WC events.

It is worth noting that transitioning to college life as a student athlete can be a big change for young people. A lot depends on how serious a college fencer one wants to be. Some of the fencers from our recruitment year have gone on to be leaders of their teams (both at strong and weaker programs) as freshmen, and some continue national and international schedule in additional NCAA responsibilities. On the other hand, some have taken a less intense, more balanced, NCAA-focused approach, which is okay too.

Our sonā€™s commitment to his college program was that he would be a dedicated NCAA fencer and the universityā€™s athletic interests would have priority over any personal athletic interests. This was a relatively easy commitment to make, as our son has no Olympic aspirations or pretentions. Fencers that have these aspirations must keep their national/international point totals up, so obviously there are a different set of priorities.

In his first year, our son joined a strong 4 man squad and was the only freshman. Only one of his squad mates continues an active NAC/WC schedule and my son was able to play an active role at NCAA competitions. I am not sure if the level of comradery and support would have been the same if the squad had more than 4 fencers. Fortunately his teamā€™s program has a policy of keeping the squads small.

Being a student/athlete in a rigorous Ivy program is not easy and there is very little free time. Time management is critical and the balance of NCAA competitions vs other aspirations is a decision every fencer has to make for themselves.

428

Ok great! We did that and every single coach responded. Everyone was friendly and asked for scores once they come in and were very complimentary of grades and extra curriculum activities. We made unofficial visits over spring break and did not meet with coaches so she had the freedom to really see the campus. Because she has so many friends at each school, she was able to visit each campus with other fencers and get a feel for each school. We are on right track from what I read. It isnā€™t a matter of being coy. Itā€™s actually just a simple and cautious attitude that I have at this point. Our coach is well respected and has reached out to several coaches at this point. Thank you again for taking so much time to explain the intricacies of this process.

429

@fencingmom1 - If I may suggest, next time, perhaps you should lead with everything you have already done. The implication from your earlier posts is that you are a total novice at this, late in the game, groping in the dark for direction. Some very experienced, eloquent and thoughtful posters on this thread took a lot of time and effort providing information that now seems kind of a waste. Note that they did this rather than responding with the more standard, snarky response to review the thread for your answers. If for one am feeling a bit ā€œgamedā€ā€¦

430

Iā€™m sorry you feel that way! Actually several other 1999 WS girls that I know are now following this thread as well as several 2000 girls who will be needing this information. Unfortunately there is so much incorrect info out there and I did realistically need that direction AND it is working well for others. Your time is not wasted I promise and we are ALL thankful!!

431

I echo @brooklynryeā€™s sentiments.

As you have been asking questions you already know the answers to, I wish I hadnā€™t responded to what I now know are disingenuous posts.

What a waste of time!

Good luck in the processā€¦deceit is rarely rewarded.

432

I apologize to you as well. My posts have been sincere and in the confusion and misinformation out there, they have been a needed direction for me and for many moms who actually were waiting until Dallas to move forward. I know that you and others have hit every point. My posts were also due to discussions with a few parents who felt that contacting coaches so early was not necessary. As I said to BrooklynRye, the information is actually working well with several parents, not just me. And even if I have done simple emails and reaching out, it is still anxiety ridden as not all parents are honest about the process. And I must say that on the West Coast at times we are not as well versed or connected to the fencing community as East Coast parents may be. You have given your honest opinion and it is highly appreciated and is being read by many. Please again accept my apologies to you and I am appreciative of your time as are many other parents. I assure you.

433

@BrooklynRye @superdomestique

I perfectly understand your feeling. However, being through similar experience with fencingmom1, I am very sympathetic with her situation. After watching your child fencing so many years and spending so much time and money, you canā€™t help but being little nervous when you get to this point. I remember even though I already learnt a lot about fencing recruits from the coaches and other parents, I was still hungry for any piece of information about the topic. I Googled every word that could be remotely related to the ā€œfencing recruitā€ and fortunately I found this thread. I read every single line and felt rewarded, though most of the information I already know. My childā€™s recruiting odyssey was over almost a year ago, I still find myself coming here often and every time I read a new post I feel I learnt some thing. So trust me, your time is not wasted. All parents who read and learn from your posts appreciate it very much.

434

Thank you for your understanding. To use the phrase Odyssey is a perfect analogy. It is gut wrenching to try to make sure you do everything right. Canā€™t put too much pressure on the coaches but not enough isnā€™t good either. Someone should truly write a book because fencing adds a dynamic that seems very very different than other sports. I cringe when I hear my co worker brag that her sophomore volleyball player who has 26 schools throwing money at her. My daughter has a top soccer player in her class who has serious commitments from 6 Ivy League schools. He is waiting for his letters right now. They have pursued him since he was a sophomore.

435

Iā€™d like to pose a question for the experienced college fencing parents and college fencers here on CC:

What has your experience been (and what have you heard of other schools) regarding the balance of fencing and academics? I expect there is wide variability in expected time commitment by coach/school, and perhaps this varies by D1 vs D3 as well?

Did you ask this question of potential coaches, and did their answers during recruiting match your actual experience?

DD understands that being a student-athlete in college will be a commitment and balancing act, but just looking for feedback from those with real-life experience.

Thanks!

436

I probably should have mentioned in the above post that this question was triggered by @superdomestique comments above in #426. I was wondering about the experience of others and if the expectations set in advance ultimately lined up with reality.

437

I donā€™t know anything about fencing but came across some statistics that surprised me. According to the linked article, the odds of a high school athlete competing in college are much higher in fencing than in most other sports . . . 30% (men) and 38% (women) will compete in college.

Does this sound plausible? Or are these percentages inflated because at the high school level itā€™s mostly a club rather than school sport? I believe the high school numbers theyā€™re using are for school teams.

http://www.scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds.html

438

@bluewater2015 you are correct in that most high school fencers are club-based and not HS varsity athletes, so the metrics are probably skewed. Probably the same thing for other sports with high numbers in college like Womenā€™s Hockey and rowing.

439

Asking for some advice for my son, currently a junior saber fencer. He just aged out of Cadets where he was on the NRPS, but about 2/3 from the top. Not yet on the Junior points list. C16 rating. Expected AI of 225-230 (33 ACT, 3.78 GPA/4.0 at a strong magnet school, waiting on SAT IIs and final junior year grades). Obviously fencing coaches at Princeton/Columbia wonā€™t be interested. Heā€™s interested in fencing in college, but cares more about the academics of the school.

Any advice on what schools might be interested in him as a fencer which would increase his chances of admission?

440

@sherpa - Has some great posts on schools for high-academic students who are low or unranked on the junior points list. Canā€™t imagine stating it better than he did.