<p>With regards to the current economic situation, yes, there are many college students that graduate with degrees that are, to be quite blunt, useless. Many college students graduate with no job offers, no source of income, and no means to repay their outstanding college debt. I have friends who went to the prestigious schools; Harvard, Cornell, Yale, and M.I.T., majored in what are considered “prestigious” subjects, and graduated with no job offers, and almost six-figure debts. The problem with these subjects is that many of them do not teach students how to think outside of the box, and operate in the highly competitive job fields, in which having a degree from Yale means nothing if you cannot apply critical thinking skills to solve the larger situation at hand. I believe that the situation is simple; colleges should properly train students that can compete in the current job market.</p>
<p>According to statistics unemployement rate among college graduates is about 4%. So, while some people could afford going to collge "to get educated’’ and not think about their professional future because they have unlimited resources, apparently most went to get a job…and they did.<br>
In regard to developing any kind of thinking, including critical, college time is way too late. There is one subject that if taught properly can develop it, and it is math, that is if taught properly, which is not happenning in k - 12, the right time when critical thinking should be developed.</p>
<p>[ZEITGEIST:</a> MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 - YouTube](<a href=“ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 - YouTube”>ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 - YouTube)</p>
<p>Fix the economy, will fix the job market, then everyone will have their place.</p>
<p>While Zeitgeist is something I wish would happen and I find extremely logical, but very idealistic, a fantasy of sorts. The fact is it’s not going to happen. So we need to find another solution. Atleast someone is trying.</p>
<p>There is no magic degree. There never will be. So you might as well do what you like. </p>
<p>Personally I believe the whole do business, financing, or accounting motto posted all over this forum is a load of crap. Really what do you end up learning about this world? Money, money, money. When money is really nothing but paper and we pay for everything in hours of labor. We seem to be raising children that think their is a shortcut to being very rich. For some god forsaken reason they think its a business degree. Way to contribute to society junior… </p>
<p>College is being oversold. It is also being overpriced. The UCs were free before Reagan. And quite frankily I’m a little shocked this hasn’t been mentioned. People forced to pull student loans get SCREWED. Our country takes advantage of student loans. We ream our countries students with them. The interest rates are insane and bankruptcy does not make them go away. While many say that “well I had to pay for college so should you” they need to close their mouths and walk away because its never been this bad. We are paying more for college than any generation before us. The greatest thing about student loans too is the fact that there is virtually no risk (for said bank) depending on where you pull from. The reason is because the government forks up the money and turns your debt into government debt.</p>
<p>Our education system sucks and our economy sucks. I really wish we could fix it.</p>
<p>@turbo and others: I realize that it’s easy to draw parallels between Europe and the USA. They exist, there’s no denying it. Notice though that I addressed nearly all of the problems you cited and how they might be remedied. We are experiencing a huge influx of immigrants who, I guarantee, would work for the same wages as the people in the factories overseas already do if policy-makers allowed it and we could find a more effective way of integrating them into our naturalized population. </p>
<p>Even if we are going to be so cynical as to assume that the entire reason we’re in the Middle East (where we’ve spent billions from Afghanistan through Libya) is because we need their oil, realize too that we have more oil available to us at home than they nearly have altogether if into into shale oil and fracking and all that. If push came to shove, we could use it. England, France and Germany did not and still don’t have those domestic natural resources. It’s entirely not the same situation.</p>
<p>Still, even I will admit that it all starts with an attitude change. That’s the real paradigm shift. One of my favorite essays on the subject is [url=<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123793074783930483.html]This”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123793074783930483.html]This</a> one by Charles Murray<a href=“Please%20don’t%20be%20put%20off%20by%20the%20fact%20that%20it’s%20from%20the%20WSJ.%20I%20try%20to%20be%20fair%20to%20all%20perspectives.”>/url</a> </p>
<p>This part speaks volumes:
</p>
<p>Check out the full article if you have time.</p>
<p>I will repeat once more that the whole “escapist” philosophy is cowardly at best and utterly futile at worst. If the USA goes up in flames, the West will go with it, and we all go down with the ship. There is no hope of retaining our cultural dominance and value set by fleeing to India or China or Brasil. And none of those countries are ready to take on the role in the world that the USA currently plays.</p>
<p>On the topic of being young: I don’t pretend I have all the answers, but I try to be as cultured as I can. The internet makes a big difference. Plus, I have a lot of time on my hands to think about these things since I can’t find a job. ;)</p>
<p>This is an interesting article.</p>
<p>For someone who majors in Physics with a theoretical focus, are the only job prospects in academia?</p>
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<p>Looks like you are taking mainly the poorly paid chemistry lab technician jobs instead of the better paid actuarial and finance jobs that math graduates often land, according to university career surveys (which generally indicate poor job and career prospects for chemistry and biology graduates, but better job and career prospects for math graduates).</p>
<p>We could find billions of dollars worth of oil in my backyard and it would do us little good if it will be sold in the open market at market value… US Oil production has actually increased the last few years, consumption has decreased, and a lot of good that has done to the price of oil…</p>
<p>I have no problem with well qualified immigrants - I was one. But there’s a mile of difference between the IIT grads of the 1980’s and the mercenaries we see today. No way around it. </p>
<p>Why am I still here? many reasons. It’s a lot easier to work AND raise children in the US; access to good education; and my lack of love for the over-stuffed attitude of most of my fellow European borns. </p>
<p>There are many difference between the US and Europe, but at the end, we’ll both go under. The Europeans because they refuse to see their economic realities and we because we refuse to see ours. </p>
<p>Instead of comparing US versus Europe for the sole purpose of proving our point, we could do well to learn from each other where possible. The US political arena has been poisoned by extreme polarization to the extent that any GOP idea is unacceptable to the Democrats and vice versa; Europeans are a lot more open to new ideas regardless of ideology. </p>
<p>Thanks to my Great Aunt Bertha, I live among the elites. I make good enough money, but thanks to Auntie, I have a house a few clicks higher than working stiffs of my pedigree usually have. I see the elite and they live in a separate universe for all I know. For them, recession meant letting go of the (illegal, usually) nanny for the stay-at-home (marginally) mom… Or not upgrading from a 5-series to a 7-series BMW. When you’re the only person in your neighborhood who does his own yardwork or who drives a 17 year old Saab, you tend to notice even small things.</p>
<p>The ‘elite’ have lost touch with the rest of us, just like it happened on the other side of the pond. I could do a full reality show from what I’ve seen living among them…</p>
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<p>Are the people you are observing the true elite in wealth, or those who maintain the appearance of wealth by going into debt?</p>
<p>Not ‘wealthy’ like Warren Buffet but wealthy enough ($250-500k/yr). I’m sure there’s a lot more borrowing going on the higher one looks, but for the most part, they seem to ‘earn’ it. Heck, come bonus payout time the illegal landscapers and house improvement crews are out en force (last year’s folly de jour was outdoor fireplaces, at $20k easily)</p>
<p>What is amazing from a CC / career point of view is how few of these people are STEM’s. The only STEM’s neighbors I can think of are doctors or dentists, the rest are doing jobs that are mostly sales, upper management, lawyers, and the like. It takes very little effort to look up owner from address, then Google owner name - if reasonably unique, you can get a pretty good idea of what they’re doing for a living from LinkedIn and the likes. And believe you me, they ain’t STEMs. </p>
<p>From my 10 years as an embedded social reporter 
the biggest risk to this newfound wealth is not layoffs or outsourcing, but ugly and epic divorces and corporate mergers. The people at this level are usually high enough that they can stay afloat despite massive downsizings…</p>
<p>It would not surprise me that non-STEM majors are concentrated at either extreme of the salary spectrum while STEMs make up the middle. I consistently see it said that a STEM degree is somehow detrimental to making the connections that land someone a high-paying managerial position and that does not make sense to me. I would imagine a bioengineering major has just as much a chance of climbing up the ranks in a food production company than does someone who has some non-STEM degree. Anyone can be wealthy with the right connections and resume, I would still argue that STEM degrees are safer should you be left without those resources.</p>
<p>Sales and upper management does not necessarily mean STEM or non-STEM background. Actually, doctor, dentist, and lawyer do not either.</p>
<p>On the other hand, few people, from either a STEM or non-STEM background, reach the $250,000+ per year income level, so planning on that as a career path (as opposed to aspiring and working to that, but having realistic notions of the chances and reasonable backup plans) is not realistic.</p>
<p>And, of course, STEM majors vary considerably in the job and career prospects one has at the bachelor’s degree level.</p>
<p>A family friend got his BS in Nuclear Engineering and Masters in Industrial Management Engineering (or something like that) and ended up as the VP of Real Estate for GE.</p>
<p>My father got the same degrees and ended up as a successful self employed real estate broker.</p>
<p>(A lot of this was do to 3 Mile Island, but Americas fear and ignorance toward nuclear power is another story)</p>
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<p>This is very true - In many companies through the years, I’ve witnessed a number of “intern” programs, wherein the company hired newly -minted college graduates to be trained in specific career fields. These were uniformly well-paid positions, with very expensive training curricula, and provided these grads a path to some very lucrative careers.</p>
<p>In almost every case, the results were disastrous. Despite hiring from some of the top colleges in the country, the wash-out rate in almost every case was nearly or at 100% within the first year These kids just weren’t prepared for the work-place, and even the most diligent and talented quickly left because they discovered they didn’t like the work, or the atmosphere, or their commute, or just left for the smallest raise elsewhere once they finished their training. </p>
<p>We had far better luck getting hiring non-college grads with an employment track record - miltary veterans were particularly good fits.</p>
<p>I think we <em>do</em> oversell “college”, by telling kids their futures will be secure with that college degree, and that they’ll be homeless with only a high school diploma. We (collectively) denigrate vocational and junior college attendees; and neglect to tell them of the “boomerang kids”, who come back home to live with Mom and Dad after 4 years, and get their old high school job back at the Starbucks. </p>
<p>Not every kid belongs in a 4-year college program - a student that graduates in 4 or 5 years with a “C” average in “Philosophy” and a lot of debt is nearly unemployable.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, that same kid could have learned a skilled trade - it’s pretty easy to out-source computer programming to India, but it’s a lot harder to outsource, say, “plumbing” to the same place.</p>
<p>I tend to think that a degree is only worthless if you are.</p>
<p>@BUBailey said: “I tend to think that a degree is only worthless if you are.”</p>
<p>Is the converse equally true?</p>
<p>barrons, I wouldn’t be opposed to moving to North Dakota except that I don’t trust the work to stay there. 5 years from now when the job I get there outsources to Mexico I get to freeze to death. A few years ago we used out last $500 to drive to Florida after we got laid off in western NY and knew we couldn’t afford heating for the winter. In the south if I end up living in my car I don’t freeze to death.</p>
<p>As the owner of a company in a segment of the construction field, I would definitely agree that college, in general, is oversold. Every young person is led to believe that not going to college is a sign of below average intelligence. Years ago, many very bright people became craftsmen. College was for an elite, academic type person. </p>
<p>Now it seems that the college system is filled with kids getting meaningless business degrees and such, will become unemployed, or have unfulfilling cubicle jobs. The fact that so many kids are going to college also has lowered the standards at the schools. As a business owner (who actually went to a well respected college), I can say that the quality of young people that I can hire has decreased with time. Since all the young men are going to college, only those with few choices go into the trades. The skilled craftsman is a dying breed because of it.</p>
<p>^OK, then we should start accepting into Med. School, Law school,…etc. right after HS, forget oversold college. It would save lots of $$…and make more people go to India for Medical care.</p>
<p>The work in ND is in the new oil and gas patch. Not moving anywhere–nice thing about oil–it tends to stay put.</p>
<p>The wonderful thing about America is that there is a college for almost everyone. The problem with America is that we believe that everyone should attend college to achieve the “American Dream.” The American Dream is not what it was before our present economy tanked. It was what America was decades ago when immigrants came here and worked their butts off to make a life for their families. </p>
<p>We can learn alot by watching the immigrants that come here now. They don’t run out and buy big houses as soon as they earn a good salary. They live with family members and save money. They don’t go out to eat dinner once or twice a week…they save that money. They also don’t buy the high style expensive clothes that entitled college grads think they need. They dress simply and conservatively and buy clothes that they can add pieces to so they can create other looks. The new immigrants don’t spend money on expensive shows, ballet, opera, or even movie tickets…they conserve and enjoy the closeness of friends in their homes. This creates a wonderful atmosphere of friendship and results in far less depression than Americans who keep searching for happiness in things, rather than in themselves.</p>
<p>The economy may stink but so does our attitude. There are so many kids who should not be going to far off low level college with parents paying tuition, room, and board. This is a ridiculous waste of money that could be used much more wisely. It is these same kids who think a job should be theirs just because they have a degree. There are two types of kids who should be attending college…smart kids and kids of wealthy parents who could afford to throw money away on a not so college minded kid. Again, look to the immigrants if you want to see how this works…their kids are smart because they set the standard high, and their kids understand without hard work and intelligence they will not attend college and they will go to work in whatever non college job they could get. They don’t take any bull from their kids in regard to this and the kids know what they need to do. The problem lies not only in the economy but in the boom years that told people that simply because they were born here they had a right to everything they want. This is a poisonous attitude that prevents kids from looking at options such as the trades or craftsmen type jobs.</p>