College Has Been Oversold

Parent Cafe
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<p>This is my personal view on college:</p>

<p>In my opinion, there is just too much red tape and politics going on with college nowadays and education as a whole in America has truly become a pain in the ass. My mother is always mentioning how glad she is that she no longer has kids in school, lol. </p>

<p>When it comes to leading our youth in the “right” path, I think the best we can do is expose them to various career paths, let them explore, and eventually make their own decisions on what route to take. Sure, they will need adult/parental guidance, but I think too many of our youth are being forced to take routes. Whether it be the college route or even the trade route.</p>

<p>That’s what my mother did for me, she exposed me to a variety of different paths to take and allowed me to make my own decision of which path I wanted to take. Of course, I could always go to her for advice. I entertained the idea of a variety of paths and decided that the college path would be the best for me and that is the path I took. My brother on the other hand took the vocational/entrepreneurial path and that is what is best for him.</p>

<p>In reference to the whole European education system vs. American education system. I will say that yes, the American educational system has a LOT OF cleaning up that needs to be done but Europe is NOT any better. Also, Europe is not even a unified country. It’s a continent of various countries with their own cultures and rules so I do not think you can even compare Europe on a whole with America. </p>

<p>Far as STEM goes, I am majoring in Computer Science and I majored in because I WANTED too. Not because some article talked about how much money I could make after it or to be some bragging rights for the family. The field itself really fascinates me and goes inline with a lot of my academic and non-academic interests and I wanted to LEARN it and be EDUCATED about it. Sure, I’m well aware that having a guarantee (to a point) job is a perk of the field, but it’s not my main reason for majoring in it. Which brings me to my next point:</p>

<p>Students need to stop going to college just for a job. If you want to go to college just for a job, you are better off going to a trade school or community college where you can earn a associate degree and still do quite fine. I’ll take my major, Computer Science, for example. I’m seeing too many students majoring in Computer Science because they have these delusions of grandeur of working at Google or Apple. They are just more concerned about learning the applicable programming language aspect of it then the whole picture that includes the scientific theoretical aspect of it. In other words, they just want to be code monkeys. Which is nothing wrong with that, but they could easily be self-taught to program (Like I did myself.) and work their way up from there in the industry. Programming got me interested in Computer Science (Like most, if not all, CS majors), no doubt about that, but as I learned more about the field I developed a true appreciation for it and realized I could do a lot with it then just programming. Even though the field of programming, excuse me, software engineering, is the most applicable (Especially job wise) of Computer Science, it’s not the only aspect of Computer Science. I guess what I’m trying to say is that Computer Science is more than just programming. </p>

<p>Little off-topic rant in that last paragraph, sorry about that! </p>

<p>So yeah, to put it all in a nutshell:</p>

<p>Expose our youth to the possibilities that are out here and allow them, with guidance not force or persuasion, to choose their own path in terms of college education and future career. Give them time to do so, even if it means a gap year or two. Also, no education is a guaranteed, rightfully yours job.</p>

<p>Also, this might be a little off-topic but I must say it:</p>

<p>As much as it pains me to say it, I truly do believe that education is going to become a case of the haves and have nots in the near future, if not already.</p>

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<p>WOW! That was a long post of mines! O_O</p>

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<p>I was not referring to European immigrants.</p>

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<p>Mommathree, nice,sweet post,but not written with reality in mind…The immigrants i see on a daily basis,work jobs that few, if any US born citizen would ever work…They live in groups of 8-12 in 2 bedroom apartments,illegally i might add…They abuse alcohol …yes, many do send money back to Mexico or Guatemala,to support families back home…depression is rampant, as they live lifes you can’t even begin to imagine…AND they would trade places with the any self-indulgent US citizen in a nanosecond</p>

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<p>^There are different immigrants. The immigrants that I see send their kids to Med. Schools, while speaking very broken English if any and some of them cannot even drive car.
Immigrants that you see might trade the places with US citizens, but guess what will happen in few months? They will be back in the same misery, and US sitizen will work his way back to where he was before a swap. Guarantee!</p>

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<p>^^^ i have them as my neighbors,you describe them well^^^ ,but they are the minority of minorities. ;)</p>

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<p>^Not in some immigrant communities, not in Asian community. Asians are flooding Med. Schools and get accepted in disproportionate numbers despite of ORM status. They work exteremely hard and overcome great obstacles.</p>

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<p>I have decided that the best place to look for a job is at a college. There are thousands of them and they have every type of job starting with unskilled labor. After x # of years, you can take classes for free. And after 20 or so years, you kids can also attend said college for only the cost of room and board. Free education, health care and a retirement package - sign me up!</p>

<p>Momma-three, I enjoyed your post</p>

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<p>Thats to whom i refer, as my neighbors</p>

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<p>Some of us actually enjoy the finer things in life :-)</p>

<p>But the previous poster was right - immigrants in general do not subscribe to the consumerism mentality that America is unfortunately famous for. Being embedded with the elites here, I am amazed to see what passes for normal once salaries hit $250k’s or more… Interestingly enough tho, many immigrants may have a problem eating out 2 and 3 times a week or vacationing to exotic places, but they have no problem paying full rides to $50k colleges… I have Indian neighbors on either side and the guy to the left (MD) has paid serious money in tuition… Priorities I guess.</p>

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<p>^somebody have to support economy. I am relying on that fact, since I myself hate shopping and eating out, being way too lazy for either of them. I am glad that others are excessivly engage in this “consumerism” to compensate for lazy bums like me.</p>

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<p>Turbo…Extreme consumerism does not only apply to those making $250k a year. I see it in new college grads lucky enough to have very good jobs, and in family members who are not making anywhere near that salary. The American Dream needs to be reevaluated where we decide what is important to each of us on a personal level. For me, it was educating my kids and providing a nice home in a nice community so that my kids could benefit from not only our own values, but also those who share like thinking. We did not buy the biggest house in our nice town but it is a lovely home that we enjoy. What we have noticed this past decade is that people have an attitude that they and their children deserve to have everything they want simply because they are entitled to it. The expensive cars, homes, vacations, clothes, and entertainment is only the tip of the iceberg. This is how Americans define the American lifestyle. This is not how immigrants define their place in America as new citizens. This has nothing to do with “enjoying the finer things in life” it has to do with attitude and values. What is important to some is not important to others. I prefer to not owe money to credit card companies or banks, and I enjoy the feeling of not owing money if I could do without some things to pay cash for others. </p>

<p>When the new immigrants who are educated, and hard working arrive in this country they don’t come here expecting to buy the biggest and best of everything. They save money and they work long hours and they set a standard for how they expect their children to live and work. Once they have a comfortable nest egg they buy their homes. That is an admirable way to live especially since we are seeing our economy is such distress.</p>

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<p>I am a special education teacher who works with many students that have significant learning challenges. The whole idea of college being oversold is so relevant to the field of special education because many of our parents have been sold the dream, told that their child should go to college too, even with severe disabilities. Our local community college has remedial classes which must be passed or passed-off with testing before entering credit bearing courses. Some of our graduates have gotten stuck there, taking remedial courses until their financial aid is used up. The students often end up with nothing but frustration , and no job skills which could actually gain them employment.</p>

<p>How can we get back to reality?</p>

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<p>We could get back to reality if these decisions were being made based on business sense and whether the people being funded had a realistic chance of gaining a significant financial advantage from taking the courses. If they are getting full funding with no cost to themselves with false promises, this will not happen.</p>

<p>It would be much more useful for folks to learn skills that will help them be more self-sufficient and earn SOME funds that could help support them than the remedial courses you mention, but it has to matter to the school. If they have a financial incentive to fill their classes, it can be a direct conflict of interest with the students’ best interests.</p>

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<p>Well said speductr! I can’t emphasize enough such things as school to work programs, job shadows, & bridging programs for all students. Today’s students have such an ego-centered outlook toward career paths, where their skills don’t articulate with their goals. If you can’t spell veterinarian, you probably can’t be one!</p>

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<p>Consumerism is good or bad depending on where you came from… Since Turbo Sr. was a military officer, we did not exactly float in Euros (or whatever). So, after Euro-pinching for decades, there comes a ‘the heck with it’ moment not unlike the Japanese who run their heaters at 80F to compensate for cold winters after WW2 (or so I have been told).</p>

<p>In the other hand, you have Mrs. Tiger Turbo who is accustomed to Imelda Marcos like luxuries in her birth country. Talk about entitlements galore :-). Thankfully, we’ve become very good at enjoying the finer things in life (a) in moderation and (b) after some serious ‘optimization’ (read, bargain hunting). </p>

<p>We do not feel we are ‘entitled’ to anything (initially) but after surviving many bouts of corporate layoffs, a combined 28 years in college, late nights learning about LTIB or Informatica instead of watching a movie, the entitlement attitude comes naturally. </p>

<p>Growing up well-to-do my kids always wondered why we had to limit expensive clothing, or why we rarely (3-4 times a year) eat out, or why we don’t spend lavishly on vacations like other families do. It’s not easy to explain to a 12 year old such things in a manner that they will comprehend. It’s easy to explain it if you don’t have money, but explaining the concept of frugality to your kids when you’re making $200k a year is a bit difficult.</p>

<p>The mistake of the current generation is not the entitlements per se. It is the fact that they do not understand how their parents got where they are, and further, that they do not understand the process is not repeatable. The economic realities change and if the McMansion and the fine European sports wagon is all the kids see, then we’re toast. </p>

<p>As a non-native born Hyphenated American I find the eternal optimism of America refreshing and unnerving at the same time. Most immigrants are usually more pessimistic (paranoid is more like it :-)) so we are not as likely to feel entitled to stuff - many of us saw things go bad in a hurry an ocean or two away… Whether by recession, by earthquake, or by revolution :-), things go bad…</p>

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<p>Perhaps have them read The Millionaire Next Door?</p>

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<p>My dad’s best friend and his wife make somewhere in the ballpark of a half mil a year (she’s a gastroenterologist and he’s an accountant). She grew up very poor and never wanted her children to be spoiled. They shop at second hand stores and have cars that they never buy new and drive until they’re completely dead. They do have some expensive habits (buying organic food, taking music lessons), but they never go out to eat and they rarely go see movies and such. They don’t live in a big house nor do they have expensive possessions (they didn’t even have cable until about 3 years ago!). Those kids are as frugal as I am and my parents make a small fraction of what their parents make (literally less than 1/10 lol). </p>

<p>It’s all about living by example. If you live frugally then your kids are likely to live frugally as well, no matter what your income is.</p>

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<p>It makes me wonder how people survived in the old days before it became every person’s “right” to have a college education. Success could still come if you had the right combination of ambition, drive, some common sense, a willingness to learn, a little luck, and the ability to pick yourself up after a failure, learn from it and get back in the game. It still holds true today even for people with college educations. </p>

<p>The best career advice to my daughter was given by a successful businessman who sat next to us during a long Amtrak journey. He said that of the people he hires, not all of them have degrees in economics, math or business. You can still major in something that interests you so long as you show some marketable skills or minor concentrations. English major? A minor in accounting will help. Philosophy major? But you were the student manager of the on-campus coffeehouse that turned a good profit on your watch. I think a lot of the problems of today’s graduates is that they have been duped into thinking that all you need is an expensive college education as the only qualification needed to scoring the good life; that job offers will still come rolling in after majoring in something like “'Peace Studies”, or “Astrobiology”. Even STEM subjects won’t necessarily help you land a job if you don’t have the skills to market yourself.</p>

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<p>Yes, common sense is increasingly UNCOMMON. There are sure a lot of “entitled” people in our US society with NO CLUE on what it takes to make it these days. </p>

<p>Our kids are so busy with ECs and other “fulfilling” activities that they often don’t have time to volunteer, start their own businesses and work part-time/summer jobs to find out more about how the REAL WORLD actually works and end up with very distorted views of what the world will be like once they have completed their formal education.</p>