<p>
It’s interesting that 4 out of these 5 are single-sex schools - 3 all-girls and 1 all-boys.</p>
<p>Is it possible that the nyc schools are less diverse and are heavily skewed to wealthy, well connected manhattan residents?</p>
<p>Probably they are, but that’s just from general observation and my suspicion that, in general, they have less financial aid to give out. Very few of them have significant endowments.</p>
<p>BUT, if true, does that contribute to better or worse looking matriculation statistics? It’s far from clear. On the one hand, you can say that students are more likely to have certain helpful economic advantages as well as legacy advantages. On the other hand, there are probably fewer URMs so that “hook” possibility for college has been reduced.</p>
<p>Manhattan has a very dense concentration of families who have the right genetics to raise kids with the raw ability to get into competitive colleges (sort of a Darwinian argument - in order to survive economically in Manhattan and raise a family here, you need to achieve a certain amount of success (other than some inheritors), and that ability makes it statistically more likely that your children are more, rather than less, able themselves.) Since there are so many people like that, the competition to get into the schools which are viewed as “the best” is very intense and there are relatively few spots at them. There are also relatively few other factors that come into play that might cause you to choose a school other than “the best” one you get into. For example, geography really is essentially a non-issue in NYC. But a stellar student could easily choose Cate over Andover simply because of distance.</p>
<p>And as Benley pointed out, 4 out of the top 5 NYC schools are single sex and also are small, at most 50 or so graduates each year. Smaller schools (at least down to the 50ish size) seem to have some advantages in college placement. My theory is that it allows the their college placement advisors to focus their advocacy efforts without having them diluted. They can talk to their contact at Yale about the 5 students that are serious candidates instead of the 17 students. That allows them to be more effective in their advocacy, or at least that’s my theory.</p>
<p>Does a single-sex school have an advantage? I attended one (which has since gone coed). There certainly was one type of distraction from studying that was removed. You can argue whether attending such a school was good or bad for me overall in the long run, but it probably was better from the perspective of enabling me to focus on schoolwork.</p>
<p>Lvillegrad,</p>
<p>Did you post a link to your site? I’d love to take a look at it. Looks interesting.</p>
<p>The data on NYC privates doesn’t surprise me, but is also something I haven’t been able to figure out either. How do they do so well? They are also lacking one big thing that the boarding schools have—geographic diversity! Boarding schools have kids from high demand states like Colorado, midwest, etc. In the NYC preps, all those students live in what is probably the single worst state to be from for college admissions—NY (NJ is probably worse).</p>
<p>I have worked with a lot of kids from the NYC privates, and I have to admit that I was impressed with every single one of them. Bright, had a social conscience, knew about museums, plays, world events, etc. Whereas my suburban kids had some of this, but were often more focused on sports and things going on in their own small world. But mine is a very small sample… I do continue to be very impressed with the NYC preps!</p>
<p>Per your request:</p>
<p>[Matriculation</a> Stats](<a href=“matriculationstats.org”>http://www.matriculationstats.org/)</p>
<p>cate seems to be at the bottom of this list for just about all of your criteria. is it representative of the best west coast schools?</p>
<p>*cate seems to be at the bottom of this list for just about all of your criteria. is it representative of the best west coast schools? *</p>
<p>I’ve done the stats for Thacher and they are signifcantly above Cate’s. Thacher will be added in the next update. There are a lot fewer west coast boarding schools than east coast boarding schools, though. I am attempting to add schools as quickly as time allows (I do have a full-time job) but it will be a gradual process. You can draw your own conclusions as schools are added.</p>
<p>I think your comparison data for colleges is wrong. US News ranks the large colleges separately from the smalleer schools. Try Forbes which combines them. If so, you will see that the “second ranked” schools have a better matriculation than the top ranked.</p>
<p>[America’s</a> Best Colleges - Forbes.com](<a href=“Forbes List Directory”>Forbes List Directory)</p>
<p>Rank Name State Cost Freshman Class Size
1 Princeton University NJ 47,975 1,242<br>
2 California Institute of Technology CA 46,560 231<br>
3 Harvard University MA 48,550 1,668<br>
4 Swarthmore College PA 48,215 365<br>
5 Williams College MA 47,140 540<br>
6 United States Military Academy NY NA 1,272<br>
7 Amherst College MA 48,352 NA<br>
8 Wellesley College MA 47,870 590<br>
9 Yale University CT 50,350 1,318<br>
10 Columbia University NY 49,260 1,333<br>
11 Northwestern University IL 49,779 1,981<br>
12 Wabash College IN 35,550 250<br>
13 Centre College KY 37,000 316<br>
14 Massachusetts Institute of Technology MA 48,200 1,067<br>
15 Bowdoin College ME 48,260 476<br>
16 United States Air Force Academy CO 0 1,214<br>
17 Middlebury College VT 50,160 644<br>
18 University of Chicago IL 49,976 1,300<br>
19 Smith College MA 47,976 656<br>
20 Pomona College CA 47,580 375<br>
21 Wesleyan University CT 49,346 733<br>
22 Haverford College PA 48,932 315<br>
23 Stanford University CA 49,227 1,721<br>
24 Hamilton College NY 47,900 468<br>
25 Sarah Lawrence College NY 52,210 363 </p>
<p>OR Top univ of the world
[Top</a> 100 Universities: Top Universities Best Colleges Top 100 Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.ulinks.com/topuniversities.htm]Top”>Top 100 Universities in the World: Best Colleges)</p>
<p>Rank Name of University Country
1 Harvard University USA
2 University of Oxford UK
3 University of Cambridge UK
4 Stanford University USA
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology USA
6 University of California, Berkeley USA
7 California Institute of Technology USA
8 Princeton University USA
9 Yale University USA
10 University of Chicago USA
11 Columbia University USA
12 University of California, San Diego USA
13 Cornell University USA
14 University of California, Los Angeles USA
15 University Pennsylvania USA
16 University of Wisconsin, Madison USA
17 University of Washington, Seattle USA
18 Tokyo University Japan
19 University of California, San Francisco USA
20 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor USA
21 Kyoto University Japan
22 Imperial College London UK
23 Johns Hopkins University USA
24 University of Toronto Canada
25 University College London UK
26 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign USA
27 Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich Switzerland
28 Washington University, St. Louis USA
29 New York University USA
30 Duke University </p>
<p>Rank Name of University Country
1 Harvard University USA
2 University of Oxford UK
3 University of Cambridge UK
4 Stanford University USA
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology USA
6 University of California, Berkeley USA
7 California Institute of Technology USA
8 Princeton University USA
9 Yale University USA
10 University of Chicago USA
11 Columbia University USA
12 University of California, San Diego USA
13 Cornell University USA
14 University of California, Los Angeles USA
15 University Pennsylvania USA
16 University of Wisconsin, Madison USA
17 University of Washington, Seattle USA
18 Tokyo University Japan
19 University of California, San Francisco USA
20 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor USA
21 Kyoto University Japan
22 Imperial College London UK
23 Johns Hopkins University USA
24 University of Toronto Canada
25 University College London UK
26 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign USA
27 Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich Switzerland
28 Washington University, St. Louis USA
29 New York University USA
30 Duke University </p>
<p>Rank Name of University Country
1 Harvard University USA
2 University of Oxford UK
3 University of Cambridge UK
4 Stanford University USA
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology USA
6 University of California, Berkeley USA
7 California Institute of Technology USA
8 Princeton University USA
9 Yale University USA
10 University of Chicago USA
11 Columbia University USA
12 University of California, San Diego USA
13 Cornell University USA
14 University of California, Los Angeles USA
15 University Pennsylvania USA
16 University of Wisconsin, Madison USA
17 University of Washington, Seattle USA
18 Tokyo University Japan
19 University of California, San Francisco USA
20 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor USA
21 Kyoto University Japan
22 Imperial College London UK
23 Johns Hopkins University USA
24 University of Toronto Canada
25 University College London UK
26 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign USA
27 Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich Switzerland
28 Washington University, St. Louis USA
29 New York University USA
30 Duke University</p>
<p>Princess Dad: Putting aside your bluntness - “your comparison data for colleges is wrong”, I’ll respond seriously to the use of an alternative ranking system.</p>
<p>First, the 2nd list you post, “top universities in the world” is inappropriate for the task at hand. It looks at universities with a heavy focus on graduate education. Since this is about undergraduate education (though the surrounding university has some halo effect and undergrads certainly do take some grad courses if available), that list doesn’t serve the task at hand.</p>
<p>The first list is more interesting. I hadn’t been aware of it. But did you read my discussion of my methodology? I acknowledged that I needed to combine the National University and Liberal Arts Colleges lists in some reasonable way. I believe I did that. Is my methodology perfect? Of course not. No methodology could be. It certainly is helpful that this list attempts to combine the National Universities with the Liberal Arts Colleges into one system. But maybe that’s the flaw? It’s hard to judge the different types of schools by exactly the same set of criteria in that they offer different approaches to a college education. I won’t pretend to say one is right and the other is wrong, just that they’re different. But by choosing the specific criteria that they did, Forbes set up a system that clearly inherently favors the LAC over the National University. The US News rating system admits that it’s hard to use objective criteria to compare different classifications of colleges.</p>
<p>I’m also not sure how you can know that if I were to switch to using the Forbes list the “second ranked” schools have a better matriculation than the top ranked. Did you test that hypothesis? It may be true, but I have some doubts given how much time I’ve spent doing this analysis over the last few weeks. When I look over the data, I see that the schools that rate highly also place many graduates into the LACs. If I have the time I may check.</p>
<p>In any event, in order to provide useful information for the many people who have appreciated it so far, I needed to make some arbritrary decisions. I tried to make them with as much reasoned thought as possible. I leave it to others to decide whether the results are worth using for the limited use for which they are intended.</p>
<p>Lvillegrad, you’ve done a great job. As you’ve already noted, no college ranking system can be perfect - however “perfect” might be defined in that context. In fact, anyone who has followed the Forbes rankings story, even slightly, knows that Forbes’ methodology and criteria have been roundly criticized. Thank you very much for making the results of your work available to the rest of us!</p>
<p>Bring back the Bunkel Index!!!</p>
<p>Heck, I’d even settle for the WBTY Indicies… hahahaha</p>
<p>L’villegrad, I hope you are not too bothered by some of negative comments you got here. This is an open forum. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, or stay away from a thread they don’t care for, but please know that you have an audience and they appreciate your work.</p>
<p>Oh, I agree! I think his work is awesome! I just didn’t realize the extent to which the new school is totally devoid of humor. Ma bad :)</p>
<p>It’s no fault of the “new school”. It’s just me that is devoid of humor. My bad. :)</p>
<p>Lville entered some new stats. Looks like Thacher is doing quite well, especially in the “strong schools” category.</p>
<p>Top 5 boarding:
Strong schools: SPS (83.2%), Andover (79.2%), Thacher (77.2%), Exeter (76.4%), Lawrenceville (76.3%)
Top Schools: Andover (61.8%), SPS (61.8%), Groton (56.8%), Exeter (55.6%), Lawrenceville (53.7%),
Ivies: Andover (27.8%), Exeter (24.8%), Groton (23.8%), SPS (23.5%), Lawrenceville (23.3%)
HYPMS: Andover (18.4%), Exeter(16.3%), Groton (16%), SPS (14.9%), Deerfield (13.7%)</p>
<p>Before you get too excited about Thacher, you should know there were some calculation errors for that school that will be corrected on the next update. Sorry for any inconvenience.</p>
<p>OK. So my previous post needs to be corrected. Based on the updated stats:</p>
<p>Top 5 boarding:
Strong schools: SPS(83.2%), Andover(79.2%), Exeter(76.4%), Lawrenceville(76.3%), Deerfiled/Groton (tied, 75.5%)
Top Schools: Andover (61.8%), SPS (61.8%), Groton (56.8%), Exeter (55.6%), Lawrenceville (53.7%),
Ivies: Andover (27.8%), Exeter (24.8%), Groton (23.8%), SPS (23.5%), Lawrenceville (23.3%)
HYPMS: Andover (18.4%), Exeter(16.3%), Groton (16%), SPS (14.9%), Deerfield (13.7%)</p>
<p>is anyone surprised that the top west coast schools are not more competitive with the top northeast schools? i didn’t have much feeling for that until seeing these data.</p>
<p>JayPeeh: Thacher is competitive with the top New England boarding schools. The class of 2008, which I know best, had a bunch of grads attend Dartmouth, Princeton, Amherst, Middlebury, Penn, Columbia, Cambridge (England), Stanford, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Georgetown…the list goes on. This was a class of 65 if memory serves, a relatively typical outcome.</p>
<p>With an admission’s rate of 19%-20%, a yield rate of 83%, an attrition rate of less than 2%, Thacher is no slouch in the stats department. Still, I always feel hypocritical jumping into threads that attempt to statistically differentiate boarding schools, to quantify their value, to calculate their worth. It’s like any argument built on a half-truth. There is something real and compelling about some of its parts, but the whole doesn’t really come together.</p>
<p>I mean no disrespect to Lvillegrad who has produced some truly interesting data. But I think that he or she would also agree that the more significant distinctions among top boarding schools have to do with the School’s personality, its values, its leadership, the quality of its faculty, the right mix of students, its location and facilities and, ultimately, whether the School is adept at producing well balanced, well educated kids who will not only flourish at top colleges and Universities, but will do some good with their lives too.</p>
<p>lvillegrad,
Actually I have looked at the “second tear” schools and they do have a better match as related to the “first tear”. You need to revise your listing using both top 25s from US News or use Forbes. (As an aside, most colleges like Forbes better than US News rankings from what I have read). </p>
<p>Plus I know one who graduated at one of the HADES (top of your list) and was accepted Juliard and told to go to Yale first year as it would affect their matriculation listing. But the BUCKEL index still remains probably the best.</p>
<p>If you believe the IVIES are the best (as most do here), then your HADES will do the best. If you believe the top liberal art schools and the academies may be better, than the HADES do poorly. Bottom Line.</p>
<p>As to comment west vs east, Head of College Advising at several of the top schools have said that most Easterners don’t look West and most Westerners don’t look East and the South likes Vandi, etc.</p>
<p>ps ThatcherMom posted after I started, but I agree with her.</p>
<p>*I mean no disrespect to Lvillegrad who has produced some truly interesting data. But I think that he or she would also agree that the more significant distinctions among top boarding schools have to do with the School’s personality, its values, its leadership, the quality of its faculty, the right mix of students, its location and facilities and, ultimately, whether the School is adept at producing well balanced, well educated kids who will not only flourish at top colleges and Universities, but will do some good with their lives too. *</p>
<p>And certainly no disrespect taken. I would refer you, though, to my introduction page which before describing my methodology describes my thoughts on how much value to place on statistics like these. On it, I clearly agree with you that there are many important factors that should go into the selection process of the right school for any student. These sorts of statistics attempt to quantify one of the many components in that process. It just happens that this particular component lends itself to quantification in an interesting way on which, unfortunately, too much emphasis can be placed simply because its easy to quantify. Nonetheless, I feel that these sorts of statistics do produce some information that has some valid use as long as it is used appropriately. And even more so, I enjoy doing it (for myself and for the sense of cooperative effort with my sons).</p>
<p>And as to Thacher specifically, it seems clear to me that a west coast school suffers from a bit of a handicap in this methodology (simply by having geographically proximaty to fewer of the schools on the list - my alma mater’s relationship with Princeton serves as an example of the assistance geographical proximity adds). I am certainly sorry that some schools are so affected in this system, but I have no clear and easy way of correcting for it (maybe with enough time and effort, but I do have a real job). As I have previously stated, my methodology is certainly not perfect and no methodology possibly can be.</p>