<p>Princess’Dad - I’m a guy. And, for the millionth time, it’s spelled Thacher. I can’t tell whether you get it wrong on purpose or whether spelling just isn’t your thing.</p>
<p>that is why one has secretaries. spelling has never been my thing. and sorry, thought you were mom (or san fran ): just kidding.</p>
<p>ps
i still agree with you on this one.</p>
<p>Just guessing that this could be relevant, but with a higher proportion of students from California, there may be a much stronger pull toward the University of California for the West Coast schools. To Californians, it is a strong option—quality and value. Believe it or not, families may choose a UC over an Ivy League.</p>
<p>*Just guessing that this could be relevant, but with a higher proportion of students from California, there may be a much stronger pull toward the University of California for the West Coast schools. To Californians, it is a strong option—quality and value. Believe it or not, families may choose a UC over an Ivy League. *</p>
<p>For Thacher and Cate (the only 2 west coast schools I’ve looked at so far), there was some of that, though many of the UC schools counted as “Top” or “Strong” schools, anyway. Berkeley and UCLA were both “Top” schools and Davis, San Deigo and Santa Barbara were “Strong” schools. There was actually a HUGE draw toward USC (a “Strong” school), a private school, though. And there were similar effects with Stanford standing in for HYP to some extent and schools like Pomona and Claremont McKenna (both “Strong” schools) replacing similar east coast schools.</p>
<p>I AM a little surprised that Cate and Thacher are not doing better in any of these "categories（stong schools, top schools, …), considering that colleges that are looked at do contain many west coast ones, some students in C & T are from other areas of the coutry, and both schools have relatively small classes. </p>
<p>That said, I would apply what has been said about SSAT in evaluating a student’s admission qualification to these statstics in evaluating the quality of a BS. First, some schools are good schools but for some reason just don’t have stella performance in L’vilegrad’s college placement system; Secondly, it is the “least important” factor in determining a BS’s quality, compared with a school’s faculty, facility, “personality”, etc. Thirdly, there are standard errors in any statstical analysis, so consider a 60 something percentile similar to 70’s, or 70’s to 80’s.</p>
<p>The numbers for any school have to be taken in context. I suspect that part of the issue with Thacher is not whether the students are able to get into highly regarded schools or a preference for the West Coast (although I’m sure that plays into the equation), it’s a cultural fit. In the 5 year history on their site (oddly enough it’s '04-'08) Berkely and UCLA - two schools that one would expect to be well represented given geography, cost, etc. - each get approx. 1% of the grads, well behind many smaller LACs in rural areas and two state universities in “outdoorsy” locations - Colorado and Colorado State. The top school (tied with Stanford) is Dartmouth - one of the smaller Ivies but located in a small town on the border of VT and NH near the mountains. </p>
<p>Is it a surprise that students from a smaller school that uses horseback riding and care for animals produces students that may prefer similar environments over many of the highly regarded urban or suburban schools?</p>
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I haven’t studied the “strong schools” closely, but is it hard to find the “similar environments” you are talking about in the top UNW 50 universities and top 30 LACs for a class of 60?</p>
<p>““Is it a surprise that students from a smaller school that uses horseback riding and care for animals produces students that may prefer similar environments over many of the highly regarded urban or suburban schools?””</p>
<p>No surprise at all Padre13. The culture of a BS is very important in the child’s development, and choices for college matriculation.
Nice work Lvillegrad, though your stats driven data list doesn’t take into account what the schools are trying to do culturally with their children. Not that you ever claimed you were.</p>
<p>on the other hand, the implications of the matriculation stats are consistent with SAT and SSAT differences, where thacher and cate students score roughly 100 SAT points and 10 SSAT percentiles lower than the HADES-type schools. all of this does not say much of anything definitive about school quality differences but it probably does say a bit about differences between the schools’ student bodies in academic strengths. however, even that doesn’t necessarily predict much about life success.</p>
<p>Is it now PC to minimize the significance of any and all differences?</p>
<p>Lville,
Another error in your data. U of Cal San Diego is really many schools. Ravelle College is harder to get into than Berkeley or some of the IVYs.</p>
<p>Also Jay mentioned SAT results. Where is the Webb School in TN which has had the top score in country on SAT for several years? And if you look at the top half of Thacher or Cate, they are probably equivalent to the East Coast schools.</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>Where did you get that piece of information? The Webb School’s profile says the average SAT is 1914. That puts it 150+ points behind Exeter, Saint Paul’s, Andover, Groton, et al.</p>
<p>As for only looking at the top 1/2 of a school’s class, I’m not sure what that proves. Every school would generate better numbers if the bottom half of the class (however that’s measured) magically disappeared. </p>
<p>The bottom line is that matriculation numbers should be handled in the context of the school and it is only a small percentage of the overall picture. An outdoorsy kid that loves horses and wants a quality education would probably choose Thacher over Exeter. One that wants nice weather, a smaller environment plus a quality education may chose Cate over Andover. Of course, kids using those criteria are probably not looking to attend a larger university like Yale in cold, urban New Haven, CT. On the other hand, if math is a kid’s passion it would be hard to beat Exeter and an application to MIT is likely.</p>
<p>Matriculation is interesting, but what each kid wants/needs out of boarding school will ultimately drive a BS choice and will also be an indicator of the types of colleges and universities that appeal to that school’s grads.</p>
<p>Lastly, Lawrenceville can only work with the data that’s available. Since I’ve never seen a boarding school publish admissions data that breaks university matriculations down into their individual schools/colleges, it’s impossible to segment as you propose. In fact, there are honors programs at many universities that are comparable to Ivy or other higher rated institutions, so that’s just another reason to take aggregate data with a grain of salt.</p>
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<p>It was announced by the college boards of the few who got a 2400 on SAT and a 36 on ACT. In addition 43% of their kids who took the AP got “AP scholars” with about 20% with distinction and 8% with honors. All in all 25% of their senior class was recognized as AP scholars. Their “top of the class” is the equal or better of any in NE, but accept more diverse so lower half gets lower scores and lowers the average. If you visit, it is a pretty impressive school with the kids “happy” and not sleep deprived and few extremely wealthy.</p>
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<p>However, that is why the BUCKEL index is better which is why above data is worth less than a grain of salt.</p>
<p>Nice work Lvillegrad. Like many others on this forum, I could recommend tweaking your list here and there, but overall I think your methodology has merit. </p>
<p>A few folks on this forum have expressed an interest in why Cate and Thacher’s numbers look a little softer than some of their East coast peers. I would hypothesize that in large part the reason stems from the fact that Cate and Thacher have smaller enrollments than most of the other boarding schools in Lvillegrad’s analysis, so if a few kids go to colleges or universities other than those on Lvillegrad’s “Top” or “Strong” college list, it would have a larger impact on the overall percentages. I know that some of Cate’s students have the option to go schools in the “Top” and “Strong” category but they choose to go to elsewhere for reasons such as of out of doors lifestyle / quality of life. As an example, the University of Colorado at Boulder is a school frequently chosen by Cate students, but it’s not on the aforementioned “Top / Strong” list. Other Cate students choose schools like Pepperdine for similar reasons (also not on list). I haven’t studied Thacher’s matriculation list, but I would bet they share the same phenomenon. In either case, you can’t go wrong with Cate or Thacher. These two schools do an excellent job preparing kids for their academic future and for life.</p>
<p>Padre13, you make interesting points. It is the rare Thacher student who doesn’t love the outdoors as much as the classroom. One of the reasons the School is adamant about in-person interviews is to be sure that applicants have a chance to see for themselves the mountains, horses, camping etc, a kind-of reality check. Since this part of the Thacher experience is fully woven into School life (and cannot be opted out of), there is a large percentage of intellectually gifted applicants who would be poorly matched for the environment. It works in reverse too. The outdoors kid who doesn’t love learning and isn’t capable of handling the academic pressure would be miserable. Along with the size (235) and geography of the School, this required balance of classroom/outdoors has statistical implications because the admission’s team needs to filter for both before it can begin to weigh each applicant’s unique gifts. They do a great job by the way, very low attrition.</p>
<p>Padre is right again about college choice. The majority of Thacher grads are going to seek a school that continues to offer a close connection to the natural world. And for those grads that choose an urban setting, I’d wager that 99% of them find every possible opportunity to be off-campus and engaged in the life of the city.</p>
<p>I get the impression that Thacher is unique in a way that its college matriculation data shouldn’t be compared side by side with its peers in NE for HYPMS, Ivies, “top schools” or “strong schools” enrollment. However, it has been said many times that Thacher’s selectivity (acceptance rate), yield, diversity of student body, geographic diversity of its applicants, faculty, facilities and everything else are all comparable or even better/ stronger than the top BS’s in NE, using the criteria that are known to most (just like the US News and World Report ranking, which is not a perfect ranking system but is known to the most and therefore shaping the popularity and selectivity of many colleges). When it comes to college placement evaluation, suddenly a different system should be used to show its strengths because it’s “outdoorsy”?</p>
<p>Benley, you should use whatever evaluation factors are meaningful to you. I don’t mean to suggest that common yardsticks should not be applied to Thacher’s college matriculation statistics. The ONLY point I’m making, where college choice is concerned, is that Thacher kids will often gravitate to Schools with a strong connection to outdoor life. It’s a core preference.</p>
<p>I’m proud of the schools to which these kids are admitted. I’ve never bought into the belief that you get a better education at Harvard or Yale than you do at an Amherst or Bowdoin or Claremont McKenna or any of the other dozens of amazing smaller schools Thacher kids tend to gravitate.</p>
<p>Thacherparent, you make it sound like Amherst, Bowdoin, and Claremont Mckenna are excluded in the calculation while in fact they are included in the top school list just as Harvard and Yale. But well, I get your point that Thacher kids have “a core preference” for outdoor life.</p>
<p>Back to the stats, L’villegrad has just added Nobel and Greenough. This is a school not mentioned much on CC. Very strong stats. Does anyone know more about the school?</p>
<p>Nobles is a 7-12 coed day school in Dedham, MA. [Welcome</a> to the Noble and Greenough School](<a href=“http://www.nobles.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.nobles.edu)</p>
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and the upper school has 470 students, so it’s basically a day school.</p>