<p>sarcasm, valentinocuevas?</p>
<p>IB Math might not be ideal for kids interested in math, since everybody's on the same track. Many (most?) AP Math schools have the option of getting to AP Calc by Junior (or Soph) year with Multivariable Calc/Linear Algebra in Senior (or Junior) year. If Advanced Calc is not offered, kids are often into Community College courses during Senior year. Depends upon how interested in Math. Also heavily dependent upon the teacher.</p>
<p>It is misleading to talk about "IB Math" as though it is one course offering. There are 4 different IB math courses and schools will select which ones to offer. Of these, two of the offerings go beyond AP BC Calculus. </p>
<p>It is also irrelevant to debate how much credit IB courses should receive based on anecdotal evidence about how hard one's school is or one's own personal experience. Colleges seem to routinely recognize HL (two year classes) for possible credit, but not SL (one year classes). Yet SL classes are not intended to be less rigorous than HLs and there is no reason they should not be treated the same as a one year AP class. The IB diploma program requires 3 of each length course in very specific subject areas to give students a core curriculum. The fact that colleges are not generous with SL credit is due to two factors. The first is that most still do not really understand the organization and rigor of the program. The second, is that the College Board has worked for 30 years to get schools to sign on to AP courses with the promise of college credit and has massive machinery in place to make this happen. IB is playing catch-up in American Universities. It's not a comment on the program itself--it's a comment on the marketplace.</p>
<p>It's not an issue of if students should recognize that colleges don't give credit for SL exams or that if they want credit they should take APs. It's a matter of why colleges don't recognize that they should be giving credit for SL exams.</p>
<p>HL exams aren't meant to be harder (like BC is a clear step up from AB), but they focus on the material in a different way. I have friends who took SL Chemistry, German, Spanish, etc. and with no extra prep signed up to take the corresponding AP exams and did fine. Plus, if it is an issue of perceived difficulty levels, why not be consistent and only give credit for those who take Calculus BC and AB?</p>
<p>I ended up coming in as in a sophomore anyway, only taking two APs, but I still find it absolutely ridiculous that colleges haven't come around on fully understanding IB and its vigor yet.</p>
<p>It seems that many schools in the U.S. are trying to combine the IB and AP programs. This may cause some confusion in how they are viewed: that they are complementary?</p>
<p>Amor, let's leave it at my older S had some special circumstances re: math placement that made IB impractical. Yes, Further Math is extremely difficult. No, it may not be enough for some extremely well-prepared math students.</p>
<p>overseas, at S2's school, there are combined AP/IB courses because there are not enough kids otherwise to fill AP sections that cover most, but not all of the same material. S2 wanted to take AP Comp Gov't this year but they had insufficient enrollment -- the IB kids don't have time for many electives and there aren't enough other students to fill a section. The IB program here uses a selective admission process and only offers the full diploma. The combined classes seem to be more for economies of scale than for any other reason.</p>
<p>Props to TOK...S2 loves that class. Also agree that as IB becomes more well known and there is nore research showing SL scores correlated to college outcomes, there may be better recognition by colleges. College Board has its lobbyists and advocates pretty well entrenched in the current college system, though.</p>
<p>I agree with Steeler. As the Post article states, there is a disconnect between admissions offices and academic departments. While admissions often heaps praises on the IB curriculum and its students (I have at least 30 quotes collected from various sources), the academic departments are stuck in the jingoistic past. A friend's son visited Tulane where the admissions office was offering him a full ride with his IB diploma status being a major focal point. He then visited a professor in his department of interest and received a blank stare when he mentioned IB. While colleges vary on giving credit for SL tests, students are misled to think that every AP will bring credit at every college. There is similar variation regarding which APs are given credit, but clearly AP tests are more often given credit than SL tests. When asked about the IB program, I always tell parents that the focus is on learning and not credit. Realistically, if the student plans to attend a top college, why would the student want to miss out on learning the material from an expert. Most top colleges want the student there for the full 4 years anyway. Younger S is independently studying AP Psych while sitting in an IB SL Psych class. He is required to do way less work than the kids taking the IB curriculum, but his high school has the students taking the IB class also take the AP exam to assure college credit. He took IB Eng III last year and sat for the AP Eng Lang test with only about 2 weeks of prep by the teacher and earned a 5 on the AP test. The entire class passed the AP LAng test with 3s or better, despite following the IB curriculum for 95 % of the year. In our IB program, the students sit for the corresponding AP test as much as possible. They find the AP material requires memorization rather than analysis. Colleges need to examine their practices of credit awards. But for the time being, IB students should select the program for its global perspective and indepth study, and not to get college credit.</p>
<p>IB Standard Level courses are not intended to be college level courses. I don't know why the students in the article think they should get credit for them.</p>
<p>I can only concur with the general opinion that any student who's looking for credit in the IB is probably in the wrong course. I have no direct experience of AP, but as an international student about to sit for his IB exams in a fortnight, I can certainly assure you that it's easily on par in terms of rigour with most other equivalent courses; it's easy enough to obtain a passable score, but exponentially more difficult to get something approaching a perfect 45.</p>
<p>As to the acceptance of IB scores amongst undergrad courses, it's a gradual process which I cannot possibly envision being rapidly accelerated simply because of the paucity of students which take it standalone. Sure, the AP programs are vital in their own right, but picking and choosing segments of the IB and to do it as a certificate seems to be missing its holistic bent entirely - I'm not sure what edge one would gain out of a half-hearted effort like that.</p>
<p>Agree with Karen Colleges. IB SL courses are weaker than corresponding AP courses, and should not be equated to AP. But IB HL are at least as, and in many cases, more, rigorous than AP. However, college credit is given only for IB HL grade of 6 or 7 (in most selective colleges), whereas it is more difficult to achieve a 6 or 7 compared to a 5 on AP exam. That is where I see the unfairness in IB recognition, not in the fact that IB SL are not counted for credit.</p>
<p>If a student receives the IB diploma and depending on the college or university in the United States, credit is given to the student for the whole package including SL. Colleges and Universities that cater to larger international populations normally understand the diploma program better than those that don't. Usually, scores of 5 or better are expected for credit. But if a student just takes certificates, they normally gain credit for only HL courses.</p>
<p>You can do a search of all the unis and colleges in the states to see how they handle the diploma or certificates here: Universities and institutions that recognize the IB diploma
Country</a> information for United States</p>
<p>If a student wants to gain full credit for SL/HL courses with the Diploma then choose schools carefully.</p>
<p>My sons took Physics SL class and took an AP exam and got 5s. Same in Economics for one of them. The son who is at an Ivy got pathetically little credit for all his AP and IB results (all exams were 4/5 onAP or 6/7 on IB). In reality, it was a waste of money to pay for the exams...</p>
<p>First, I am glad that Dean J posted in the thread... b/c it exposes the problems with college admissions / credit plans. And they don't even know the problem exists.</p>
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IB Standard Level courses are not intended to be college level courses. I don't know why the students in the article think they should get credit for them.
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<p>pre-IB government was enough for me to score a 4 on the AP government test TWO YEARS LATER! I took the test senior year, took the class sophomore year. And that is not even an IB class.</p>
<p>Math SL (Methods) goes through Calc 1. You should get credit for Calc 1 for that test. For HL Math, you should get Calc 1 and 2.</p>
<p>The fact that you don't get credit for SL English is ridiculous, also.</p>
<p>... also, it is MUCH more difficult to score a 6/7 on an IB test than a 5 on AP tests. Some AP tests have 30%+ of the test takers score a 5. Not the case in IB. Just over 100 people in the WORLD score a 42 on their Diploma, which is at minimum 6/6/6/7/7/7 + 3 for TOK, or maximum 7/7/7/7/7/7 + 0.</p>
<p>So, 6/6/6/7/7/7, according to many people here, is... 5/5/5 on 3 AP tests (if the person took 3 HLs... SL's aren't up to the strength of AP, right?). So how many people graduate from US high schools alone with 3 5's on AP tests? I would guess thousands, probably tens of thousands (or even hundreds of thousands...).</p>
<p>So... what is easier? Something that tens of thousands of high schools students in the US alone do? Or what 100-110 high school students world-wide do?</p>
<p>When a student takes 10-12 AP classes, then we can start to talk about who had the better college prep work... until then, IB wins.</p>
<p>What colleges are giving credit for IB standard level test scores?</p>
<p>Furthermore, conditional acceptances to Oxford and Cambridge are generally roughly 38 points, excluding TOK, which is 6/6/6/6/7/7. Again... this is like 3 AP classes, right?</p>
<p>I am waiting for the stories of kids with three 5's on AP exams (in their only 3 AP classes) get into the Ivy League or Oxford or Cambridge.</p>
<p>tokenadult, I was surprised to learn that:</p>
<p>Tufts: No credit is given for standard level courses except for scores of six and seven on English and for scores of five or higher in foreign languages.</p>
<p>Brown: With departmental approval, a standard level course with a superior mark may be counted for one credit. Accreditation falls within the providence of the Dean of the College.</p>
<p>Kenyon College: A full year of credit may be earned for an IB diploma point total of 36 or higher (with no score below 5).</p>
<p>Knox: Students completing an IB Diploma with a score of 30 or above will receive one year of credit toward the completion of their Knox degree.</p>
<p>Clark U: Students who present an IB Diploma and who also earn a minimum of 36 composite points with a score of 5 or higher in all six of their IB examinations will receive eight Clark units (one full year).</p>
<p>Beloit: One unit of credit will be given for each score of 4-7 for those who take the higher level IB examinations , and for each score of 6 or 7 on a standard level examination.</p>
<p>Goucher: Completion of a full IB curriculum may result in sophomore standing.</p>
<p>Lewis & Clark: Four semester credits are granted for scores of 5 on the higher-level exams, or 8 semester credits for scores of 6 or 7 on the higher-level exams, or 16 semester credits for completion of the IB diploma with a score of 32 to 35, or 24 semester credits for a score of 36 or higher.</p>
<p>Smith: Smith College will award a full year of college credit to a student who earns an IB Diploma and receives scores of 5, 6, or 7 on each examination.</p>
<p>Source: IBO (Country</a> information for United States - posted by overseas above). It's best to cross check this info with schools' sites, but the ones I checked were up to date.</p>
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I am waiting for the stories of kids with three 5's on AP exams (in their only 3 AP classes) get into the Ivy League
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<p>It wouldn't surprise me to hear that students are admitted to colleges in the Ivy League </p>
<p>Ivy</a> League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia </p>
<p>each year with no AP test scores at all, although that is a different issue from the one addressed in this thread.</p>
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It wouldn't surprise me to hear that students are admitted to colleges in the Ivy League </p>
<p>Ivy League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia </p>
<p>each year with no AP test scores at all, although that is a different issue from the one addressed in this thread.
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<p>if the student has the opportunity to take a full load of AP and they choose to take none... they aren't getting in, unless there is something monumentally special.</p>
<p>haha, my friend is taking ib and we're always competing over ap vs ib.</p>
<p>i'm glad that ap is better, discriminatory-wise.</p>