<p>It’s like sending a birthday invitation to someone you don’t really want at your party. If you don’t want them to come, don’t send the invitation! Sure, you can send it to them, decide you don’t like them, and take it back, but if you don’t let them know they aren’t invited anymore, how are they supposed to know?</p>
<p>What exactly is your point? You have completely lost me.</p>
<p>(btw ill message you later, i didnt go to bed from last night til 3:30pm and I am DYING. XD)</p>
<p>Do people usually send out birthday invitations to people that they don’t want to invite to their birthday? What an insane argument.</p>
<p>
Where you guys lost me was apparently a very long time ago, since I was never defending someone knowingly forcing another to have sex. And no rush on the message, since obviously it’s for your benefit :).</p>
<p>Also: Get some sleep! ;)</p>
<p>
Nah… People like to be sexual teases more than birthday party teases.</p>
<p>"Where you guys lost me was apparently a very long time ago, since I was never defending someone knowingly forcing another to have sex. And no rush on the message, since obviously it’s for your benefit "</p>
<p>As long as the girl expresses that she does not want to have sex, it is rape. If she does not, it is not–though I personally do not feel it is that black and white, by law it is. How can you rape someone by accident?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>tripping and falling repeatedly?</p>
<p>Here’s a quote from a PM conversation I’m having:
Hello, accidental rapist.</p>
<p>If she does not express disinterest, as long as he is not threatening her it is not legally rape.</p>
<p>But she was apprehensive. She thought she was sending signals, but never expressly said “Stop.” When he made another advance, she misunderstood his advance as forceful (ignoring her signals) and she felt threatened. She became scared, froze up, and let herself be raped.</p>
<p>Then it’s not rape. It should be, in my opinion, but it’s not. You have to clearly express that you are not consenting.</p>
<p>“this is really scary. worried about college now”</p>
<p>i know, right? heh…</p>
<p>
Right, so the “victim” is to blame. I think that is a very important distinction to make, because if people treat the girl the same as any other rape victim, since this girl was raped (just not legally), it isn’t going to help her. There’s no reason for this girl to be distrustful of everyone who makes a sexual advance on her. She shouldn’t be scared of the world. She should, however, prepare herself to be more vocal about her disinterest in the future. She should be angry at herself, because the accidental rapist was not to blame.</p>
<p>There is no victim in that case because it is NOT RAPE. There is no accidental rapist. She was not raped. It is not rape, no matter what, if you do not express that you do not consent unless you are being coerced-- the definition of which is almost always exclusive to violence or threat of violence. There is no threat to the man in this case, he did everything right, assuming his partner is not under the influence and that he did not threaten her. He is legally free and clear. </p>
<p>I am the first person to argue that our legal definitions of rape are too strict, no questions asked, however you are arguing on a completely theoretical, non-existent basis.</p>
<p>No. She wasn’t raped. She didn’t say no and she was in a position to say no. Therefore, she consented. Now, it was kind of ******y of the guy to continue with smeone who wasn’t interested, but there’s no one to actually blame. She certainly should NOT have to be angry at herself. Ultimately it’s a personal thing and she has the right to feel however she wants.</p>
<p>No one has to be blamed when rape doesn’t happen. It’s not like one way or the other – either the “rapist” or the “victim.”</p>
<p>If there was violence or threat of violence, I really don’t understand how anyone would be scared to come forth about being raped in fear of being called a liar. Maybe an example of that situation, where it is clear that she was raped but might be mistaken as a liar, would be helpful.</p>
<p>Gotakun you don’t understand how debilitating rape is. Many victims feel like it was their fault. It’s not something that you will ever understand until it happens to you or perhaps someone very close to you, so I don’t think an example is necessary.</p>
<p>There isn’t always evidence of violence or threats of violence. My ex told me while we were dating that if his family ever found out about us they would kill us both (his family was from a different country and he told me he was not allowed to date, much less white girls), and a big part of the reason why I never told anybody was because I was afraid he would come after me if I did to keep his family from knowing, or that his family would come after me. I went and screamed at him at his work once, which is owned by his family, when I realized what had happened and the next day someone had purposefully mowed down my mailbox and I was in complete terror for days until we found out one of my sister’s friends did it. At the time there was no overt violence, but I’d have had just as hard of a time proving it. What am I supposed to say, “oh, he threatened to kill my family if I resisted.” He’ll say, “no, actually, I didn’t.” If he has a better lawyer and they’ve done a sufficient job making me look like a whore that wants to screw everything that moves, which is what they do best, I look like a whore, I am permanently labeled a liar that tried to ruin my perpetrator’s life, and people go on and on about how I am the lowest of low for trying to ruin some young mans life and belong in prison.</p>
<p>I mean god, even if I’d had bruises he could have explained them away. I really don’t know if there was anything I could have done to prove it. Short of DNA there really is no indefensible evidence that I can think of unless the victim was brutally beaten. And even if there was DNA, we were dating, he could have just claimed we’d had consensual sex. If his lawyer is better, he wins.</p>
<p>
If you can assume I wouldn’t understand before even presenting me with the example, I take it that it isn’t logical for the victim to feel that people wouldn’t believe him/her. Is that right? You’re saying it’s an irrational fear? But this thread has made it seem like a real fear, something that happens every day (victims accused of lying).</p>
<p>@TwistedxKiss
Thank you. That puts some perspective on things for me as an example for why a victim might not come forth. Actually, that has me realizing that without a witness or evidence, there’s no way a jury could convict anyone on rape charges. But it surely happens…</p>
<p>“If you can assume I wouldn’t understand before even presenting me with the example, I take it that it isn’t logical for the victim to feel that people wouldn’t believe him/her. Is that right? You’re saying it’s an irrational fear? But this thread has made it seem like a real fear, something that happens every day (victims accused of lying).”</p>
<p>I think it’s a combination of both. Rape victims are treated like HELL. The defense’s job is to make it look like you wanted it, and they will stop at nothing to do that. They completely rip you apart to make it look like their client is the victim, which is perhaps the single most painful thing they could do. If I had gone to court and that happened I would probably have to kill myself. That would be too much. Like, actually. That would be it for me. I cannot even comprehend what that would do to my sanity.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there is also an irrational fear component in that so many rape victims blame themselves. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough, maybe I led him on, maybe I DID want it, why didn’t I fight back harder, if I had this wouldn’t have happened. Maybe I am just fooling myself, maybe I am a dirty useless whore and I deserved this, maybe he really IS the victim here. I am just a screw up, what am I going to bring that to court for, I don’t need a judge to tell me I’m a whore. Obviously I know it now. A woman that has been raped can really think these things. Most of them have crossed my mind. The combination of knowing that and the fact that the court would rip me left, right, and center is enough to keep me from speaking up, no matter what he may have done to me. Statute of limitations, if I understand correctly, is two years-- it’ll officially be the two year anniversary in 45 minutes. (what a wild coincidence.) So that’s it. Ugh.</p>
<p>This post on the CNN article was pretty good:</p>
<p>"Our society is so focused on protecting women, telling them how they should and should not act and dress, where they should and should not go alone or in a group. Take self-defense classes, don’t dress provocatively, watch your drink, don’t drink too much, stay in well-lit areas, keep your car keys in your hand to use as a weapon when you’re in a parking lot.</p>
<p>Instead of focusing on women, why don’t we, as a society, teach men not to rape. It’s called enthusiastic consent. If your partner isn’t saying yes and actively participating in the encounter, you do NOT have consent. If she’s intoxicated, she’s not saying yes. If she’s unconscious, she CANNOT say yes. Silence is never a yes.</p>
<p>No one has the right to touch or penetrate another person’s body without consent, irregardless of gender.</p>
<p>There will always be cases the dark alley stranger-rapist but those rapists account for only a fraction of the rapes that occur in the US. It’s the people we know and trust that rape. Women, men, children, should not have to protect themselves from their friends, classmates, co-workers, and care takers.</p>
<p>No one asks to be raped. Rape is never the survivor’s fault.</p>
<p>Rape is always the fault of the person who chooses to rape."</p>
<p>Anyway. I agree, Twisted, that the courts seem to prefer defending the criminal to the death than the victim. I think it’s time for some change; some real change, not this “YES WE CAN” crap.</p>