<p>Irregardless aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh</p>
<p>DCHurricane is awesome, I don’t see too many conservative feminists.</p>
<p>gotakun, would you agree that rape, like clear-cut rape not the borderline scenario you’re imagining, is never the victim’s fault?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>what if the guy is too drunk to say “yes/no” also?</p>
<p>Gotakun how old are you again? I think some of your thoughts on what a “sexual invitation” entails are a bit naive.</p>
<p>For instance, a girl grinding on you is not a sexual invitation. Because nowadays, it’s almost as common as shaking hands and usually done purely for fun.</p>
<p>Now, you may BELIEVE it’s a sexual invitation, but in the minds of 95% (or more) of the girls grinding on you, it is definitely NOT. You are misinterpreting the girl’s signals. It would be akin to a guy interpreting a girl making eye contact with him as “do me now.” It is simply not the case.</p>
<p>I guess you could say that a girl shouldn’t grind on guys because it might make “clueless guys” think she’s sexually consented. Well, I guess that’s true - but what are you going to do, tell a girl she can’t be flirty, be feminine, ever, lest she attract or lead a guy on? That’s what they do. “Cockteasing” (although more often misread signals probably) is something that occurs naturally and will never go away in my opinion. Might as well tell a girl never to leave the house, because men want to do her and thusly will rape her.</p>
<p>Point is, consent to sex is pretty black and white. And it’s all that really matters when it comes to rape.</p>
<p>Anyway, the statistics on rape always seem to be changing and I do think (though not based on any evidence) that some of the numbers are a tad inflated - the OP says 1 in 6 will be raped (or attempted - important) and then another poster says 1 in 3 will be raped in their lifetime, which can’t possibly be right - maybe sexually assaulted in some manner. I personally have probably been unduly assaulted by two different gay men with wandering hands on two separate occasions years apart - and no, I’m not homophobic, quite the contrary - but these guys grabbed my junk. Not traumatizing but not fun either.</p>
<p>But anyway, it seems most of these rapes occur with friends and romantic partners. Which I find astounding, particularly the latter. Is there a such a complete lack of communication in a relationship where a rape happens? Is it vengeful or something? I understand when people are young they are extremely dumb and irrational, but rape is pretty serious.</p>
<p>I mean, guys are going to try for sex - it’s just in our nature. And let’s not b.s. each other here - there are a lot of subtleties, pushing and pulling, chasing then withdrawing, playing coy, etc in the courtship game. Mixed signals are a part of flirting! Sometimes guys are going to see how far they can go (while watching how you react and only continuing if you’re liking it). Point is, as a girl you’re going to have to be CLEAR and DIRECT when you say, No, you don’t want to have sex. Be persistant, if you have to.</p>
<p>I don’t understand these situations where it’s just like — two friends hanging out — woops we’re having sex. One, you had to get naked right? Maybe at the point where he’s taking off your pants - or even your underwear - maybe at that point you should give him a firm “No.”</p>
<p>I guess for girls there are a lot of “social considerations” with friends, and letting guy friends down easy, and not wanting to cause waves, but goddamm, we’re talking about getting raped here! Forget about what your fat cackling friends are going to think of your actions for just two seconds and tell the guy “NO” and push him off you.</p>
<p>It’s hard to think of viable solutions to this problem when there seems to be so many gaps in what the most prevalent model or script of rape is. There are violent, forceful, fighting rapes but according to a bunch of your links that seems to be by far the least common kind.</p>
<p>Anyway, I’m sure you’ve heard this before Twisted and I’m not even sure if this would be good or bad, but if I were in your position I’d nail this ex-boyfriend of yours to the wall. Rape is rape - if this guy knowingly raped you, hell I’d throw him under the bus. Obviously I haven’t been through what you have, and it might be too much effort (lord knows) for you at this point to even consider.</p>
<p>The fact that this kid comes from some “rich, influential” family isn’t going to mean much in the courtroom. If he comes in with an expensive, fast-talking lawyer, that is precisely what the jury is going to see: a rich, privledged kid with a fast-talking lawyer who thinks he can go rape someone at his whim.</p>
<p>Hell, the mere accusation of rape will basically destroy his reputation.</p>
<p>Then again, I don’t know the details so whatever. The fact that you “discovered” he raped you after the fact doesn’t sit well with me, unless he raped you while you were unconscious or something. Like I said though, the picture of what happens in these situations is very hazy for me.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If a girl and guy are both drunk and have sex, is that rape?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Brilliant. And instead of telling people to lock their doors at night, we should teach people not to steal.</p>
<p>Hard to say soccerguy.</p>
<p>It’s hard to look at someone and figure out just how lucid or cognisant or aware of their surroundings they are.</p>
<p>Sometimes a girl is going to be drunk, but she’s aware of herself, and wants to screw you anyway, and is aware of the repercussions of that despite being drunk. I think in this case she can consent.</p>
<p>Other times a girl is going to be barely conscious or just “gone” mentally and will simply be there and not be aware enough to tell you “stop.” This case would probably be rape.</p>
<p>Trouble is, you’re not really going to be able to tell exactly where she’s at many times. And if the case happens to be the latter one, well you’re screwed now. So I guess you have to tread carefully, and when in doubt, let her sober up and wait til the morning.</p>
<p>Oh and the part about you being drunk? Um, no… as far as I know “because I was drunk” is not a valid legal defense for any criminal allegations.</p>
<p>The feminist group at my university teaches us that if girl has one drink, and a guy has 10, and they go back to a room and have consensual sex, the girl was actually raped. Doesn’t matter how drunk the guy is, once a girl has one drink she is apparently blackout and is unable to make decisions.</p>
<p>We could reduce a lot of “rapes” if the definition was altered. As it stands now, these people believe that women are too ignorant to make their own decisions when the drink. And they are feminists, nonetheless! What a contradiction.</p>
<p>
in that case, my boyfriend and I rape each other weekly. seriously though, I think that’s a bs rule. 1 drink isn’t drunk. </p>
<p>the drinking issue with rape is complex because it’s not black and white. there are different levels of being “drunk”, from being buzzed to the point where the girl has no clue what’s going on and is practically passed out, and it’s easy for a guy to force himself on her. plus the guy is usually drunk in this situation and that complicates it too. college students hook up drunkenly all the time…that doesn’t mean it’s rape all the time. nor is it rape simply becuase the woman regrets it. I define rape as when the person openly says no or indicates she doesn’t want to, and it’s forced somehow.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So… a drunk guy can consent to sex (by having sex with a girl) but a drunk girl cannot consent to sex (by having sex with a guy). If the drunk girl can’t consent, then the drunk guy shouldn’t be able to either = the guy should be able to press rape charges.</p>
<p>“DCHurricane is awesome, I don’t see too many conservative feminists.”</p>
<p>I don’t know if I’m a feminist. I definitely hate rapists that’s for sure. But I hold doors open for women and stuff like that; I know some feminists who find that demeaning or something. I find it being courteous. Heck, even my grrl-power girlfriend and her independent-woman friends like my politeness and chivalry. But conservative I am 
not crazy neo-con though. Think more Founding Father conservative. Which I think was actually called liberal back in those days of yore.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>but if they are drunk then they can’t consent then it is rape… (I agree with you, but this is the logic people use where they get stats like “1 in 4” or "60% of rapes go unreported).</p>
<p>well i consider myself feminist even though i hold doors open for women and think there are physical and mental differences between men and women, i think it’s possible to recognize those differences without being sexist</p>
<p>“Then again, I don’t know the details so whatever. The fact that you “discovered” he raped you after the fact doesn’t sit well with me, unless he raped you while you were unconscious or something. Like I said though, the picture of what happens in these situations is very hazy for me.”</p>
<p>I said no over and over again but it kept happening and I thought nothing “wrong” had happened since I did not physically stop him, I kept justifying it. (note: you do not have to physically resist, I did not know that two years ago) I felt like hell the next couple of days but I was in love with him and talked myself out of feeling bad about it because I figured it was my fault for not physically resisting, he must just not have understood that i really meant no, I should have fought him off. I can’t even really tell you why I didn’t physically resist the second time, or how the second time even happened. The first time I was locked in his car in an unfamiliar city, there was nothing I could have done there. I felt really horrific and didn’t talk to him for a few weeks but then I convinced myself it was my fault and forgave him. At the time it had never even occurred to me that I was assaulted, that did not come until a year later. I recognize this is all very fuzzy and that is among many reasons why I did not bring it to court, I doubt I’d have a case. He pretended to be a completely different person, lied about his age, the fact that he was married, his career, his hobbies, everything to cultivate a false relationship with me so that I would believe anything he said. That is not illegal at all. You can lie all you want to get a girl to have sex with you and it is not illegal. I am not claiming that he did anything “wrong” in the legal sense there. That is, however, the explanation for how he got away with something that was illegal. He did not convince me to consent but he did convince me he hadn’t done anything wrong after the fact. Every time something happened I justified it to myself for him. Six months later when I discovered his wedding video online I started to see what I had missed the last few months. It’s cliche, but suddenly it all became very clear. I spent months sorting through memories and realizing what was true and what wasn’t, and what really happened. I knew that if I wanted to risk my life and my reputation to press charges nothing would have come of it for me, and I believe the statute of limitations is two years and that is officially up as of tomorrow. (hows that for a coincidence.) So that’s that. Hopefully I explained it properly. I haven’t told this story very many times. </p>
<p>“So… a drunk guy can consent to sex (by having sex with a girl) but a drunk girl cannot consent to sex (by having sex with a guy). If the drunk girl can’t consent, then the drunk guy shouldn’t be able to either = the guy should be able to press rape charges.”</p>
<p>A drunken male can’t consent, either, and could very well press rape charges. Not sure how that would go. He would certainly be legally entitled to press charges and, while uncommon, women are charged with raping men. I’m not going to lie and say there isn’t a gender bias here, but given that neither party can legally consent I’m not sure how the court would handle it. I don’t spend much time studying rape cases.</p>
<p>1/8 men get raped too.</p>
<p>Alright… I’m scared as hell now…</p>
<p>Don’t be. As long as you protect yourself chances are you will be fine. You can’t live your whole life in fear. If I don’t get to you sure don’t. :P</p>
<p>Twisted-
Statute of Limitations in Michigan (your location under your name clued me in) are as follows:
767.24 Indictments; finding and filing; limitations.</p>
<p>Sec. 24.</p>
<p>(1) An indictment for murder, conspiracy to commit murder, solicitation to commit murder, criminal sexual conduct in the first degree, or a violation of the Michigan anti-terrorism act, chapter LXXXIII-A of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.543a to 750.543z, or a violation of chapter XXXIII of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.200 to 750.212a, that is punishable by life imprisonment may be found and filed at any time.</p>
<p>Granted, it seems like you do not want to come forward and press charges, but it still is possible. Also here’s another thing for their statute of limitations:</p>
<p>Criminal sexual conduct in all other degrees:</p>
<p>(2) An indictment for a violation or attempted violation of section 145c, 520c, 520d, 520e, or 520g of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.145c, 750.520c, 750.520d, 750.520e, and 750.520g, may be found and filed as follows:</p>
<p>(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), an indictment may be found and filed within 10 years after the offense is committed or by the alleged victim’s twenty-first birthday, whichever is later.</p>
<p>And not to sound like a creeper, but according to your profile you’re only 20…</p>
<p>I’m sorry if I am completely off-base here, but I was just interested what the statue of limitations were in Michigan when you said they were expired…</p>
<p>@Cupertinotransfr: If having sex after drinking is rape, then I think 99% of men have been raped.</p>
<p>I think this drunk = rape is stupid. Why should a drunk not be able to give consent? A person being drunk is their own fault. If you commit a crime while drunk, are you pardoned? Why then is being drunk an excuse here?
If you define rape like this, you are trivializing serious cases like that of TwistedxKiss.</p>
<p>@Gerontius: There are instances when being drunk is not someone’s fault. Someone can be tricked into taking in drugs or alcohol for the sole purpose of someone trying to take advantage of them. Roofies, dear. And, while drinking might be someone’s fault, being drunk impairs judgment (obviously) and can lead to a state of unconsciousness when it is simply not feasible for a party to give consent.</p>
<p>The fact is that, whether you agree or not, many states and college campuses do have statutes that make it illegal to have sex when legally drunk. That is to prevent circumstances when someone is too drunk to say no. Yes, that means that a lot of sex is technically rape – it’s not saying that everyone should get in trouble for it. It’s merely there to provide protection for men and women who are too intoxicated to legally consent.</p>