Colleges for Musical Theater Major - Part 31

<p>Alwaysamom--I didn't actually mean one-on-one; what i meant and should have said is that at some schools there is much more direct contact between professors and students, where students feel that they are very much in the "middle of it all" and that they are valued as a student. At large schools, this situation is much less possible. Some on this thread are aware they only want smaller schools because of this. So I wondered if the problems resulted from kids being in a big school or because of students' own expectations and attitudes or from actual problems with the program.</p>

<p>When my D and i debate whether (if she doesn't get accepted by one of the MT programs she truly wants) a safety in MT (non-audition) or a more challenging theatre dept (for acting or even a BA) would be better (of course she has to keep up her vocal and dance training), that's one of the things that's come up. A non-audition MT program might be one where there would be a lot of glory for a strong student, but where's the challenge? She's always looking for challenges (that of course makes my life more difficult!). If students at NYU are truly grumbling for the reason that they don't have the glory any more, then I guess that's a weeding out process and those students don't make "the cut." Gee, I guess there's more ways to cut students from MT programs than we thought (just kidding).</p>

<p>mtmommy, I have to respectfully disagree with your "direct contact" comment. :) As stated, studio classes at Tisch are in the 12-15 size range. Tischies are in studio three days a week from roughly 9-6, and routinely interact with staff outside studio hours as well, in circumstances like I mentioned in a previous post where one of my D's profs had the cast of the broadway show The Frogs to his apartment along with several of his students. To say that kids in this program might think they didn't have enough contact with faculty, or that they might not feel valued as a student, is inconceivable to me. If, with all those class hours and outside class hours in a class of 12-15, they don't feel comfy, for THOSE reasons, something else is obviously at play. NYU is obviously a large university, and Tisch is a large drama school, but the individual class sizes are comparable to any other program in the country.</p>

<p>alwaysamom--It sounds as if you are talking about the studio classes, but what is the class size for non-studio classes? You've mentioned that your daughter is doing a double major. Is her other major outside of the studio classes at Tisch? What size are her other NYU classes?</p>

<p>Thanks for the valuable info.</p>

<p>mtmommy - I'm going to share what I've heard my daughter say with regard to a few friends that she has that are in CAP21. I think the problem some of the CAP 21 students may have is their impression that those in acting studios are spending more time on the craft of acting, while in CAP you are concentrating in all three areas of musical theater. As I mentioned before, my daughter, is in Strasberg, and she specifically requested it because of her impression, and I emphasize, her impression, that Strasberg would spend more time on the craft of acting. I am aware of those students who were accepted to CAP21 (in one particular case, an extremely gifted actor, dancer and singer) who have felt they are not getting as much drama as they might have liked This tends to make sense from my perspective as CAP 21 students are concentrating in all three aspects of musical theater equally and there are only so many hours a day in the studio; while I believe based on what my daughter has shared so far, they place the greatest emphasis on the actor in her studio. Certainly she has movement, dance, and in Strasberg's case, singing ,but I know that she has loved Strasberg and felt she really made the right choice from the drama perspective, which is her first love. I also think that she has had very, very positive feedback from her instructor/director in Strasberg with regard to her first scene presented and that also could be making the her friends in CAP 21 want to get in and do some more individual acting work. She has a very small group in Strasberg and has received incredible individual attention in my opinion. </p>

<p>I would not say that any of these kids (her friends in CAP 21) are grumbling for the reason that they don't have the glory; in fact, I think they want to have more work, incredible as that may seem. My guess is that students that feel they need more work on the craft of acting will eventually transfer into other studios after their two years at CAP21, which is also another great alternative. I am sure most everyone knows on this thread that students in Tisch are free to transfer to any other other acting studios, including CAP21, I believe, after their first two years. This is what makes NYU's BFA such a great program, the choice is there for all of the students.</p>

<p>As I mentioned above these are just observations based on what my daughter has shared with me to this point. Let me be clear that we have not had extended discussions with regard to this particular point, she just mentioned it very early on in the year. It may be that as the students settle in they become more acclimated and used to the methodology taught in their respective studios.</p>

<p>For anyone interested in feedback from an NYU audition I am quite sure that in the November/December 2003 archives of this thread I posted my daughter's audition experienc, including description of her auditor, her impression of the audition, etc. If you wish to refer I know you can pull it up through the archives and I used the same posting name: theatredivasmom</p>

<p>here's the address to the site to which I scanned an article about Danielle Kwatinetz, "an actress with a Harvard degree"... a GREAT and inspiring article. It is very difficult to read on the site I scanned it to. I suggest a. copying into microsoft word/powerpoint and enlarging it... or b. writing me a private message if you want me to email it to you (with your email address)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=5491635&uid=2742373&members=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=5491635&uid=2742373&members=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>fosselover, regarding class sizes, you're right, I was specifically talking about studio classes because those are the actual performance classes. As far as other classes, it certainly varies. There is a Writing the Essay class which every NYU freshman must take (in all seven colleges). The lecture is probably around 100 (I'm remembering from her schedule last year) and the recitation (seminar/tutorial) is about 10 students. Freshmen also take Introduction to Theatre Studies which is about 25. She was permitted to take a freshman seminar class (not always available to drama students) and there were 10 kids in it.</p>

<p>This year I'm not sure about all of them but I do know that studio continues at around 12 or 13. She's also taking a writing workshop in Tisch which has 8 students. Her double major is in the College of Arts and Science and one class she has is in the 35-40 range. The other I'm not sure of, sorry. No large lectures yet on her schedule. They do exist in some departments like Psychology and History for lower level classes, as they do at most large universities, but all have small recitation classes with about 10 kids each. </p>

<p>Hope that was helpful.</p>

<p>dani, interesting article. I thought the name sounded familiar. A friend of my D3 was reading this book last week and had it over here when visiting and I took a look at it. Seems to be the same author. She also, along with her successful financial analyst husband, has written fairly extensively on personal finance. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060393084/ref%3Dnosim/gomilpit/002-7960736-5989649%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060393084/ref%3Dnosim/gomilpit/002-7960736-5989649&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It would be interesting to know what acting she has done. A quick search didn't turn anything up. </p>

<p>Anyway, I think the issue of properly 'utilizing' a college degree is something which comes up in many families. I was raised by parents who thought education was the most important thing they could provide me. They were not looking at it as a means to an end, as preparation for a high income job, or for the contacts I could make. Their belief, and one that I've passed to my children, is that education is important in, and of itself.</p>

<p>Alwaysamom--Hey, I wasn't dissing Cap21. I was just brainstorming reasons why someone might not like their situation. I have no way of knowing if the students gets lots of interaction with their professors or not, for example. So thanks for your information about the program. The more information we all have, the better. The reason my D isn't applying to Tisch isn't because she wouldn't want to go there; it's a geographic consideration.</p>

<p>I will say, though, (and off the subject of MT) that I can't imagine a writing course that is designed as a lecture, even with seminar. That information is not to my liking.</p>

<p>Theatredivasmom--Your information about the acting concern is valuable. Of course, that's one problem with an MT program in some ways--how could a student spend as much time on their acting as a straight acting student does? It's just not possible. But I see how my daughter is pulled into all these directions now (see Soozievt's account of her D's schedule for a variation on my D's schedule :)), and I know that she'll always want to do it all. At least with an MT program, it'll all be on one campus!</p>

<p>One more thing about Cap21: can't the students who aren't happy for the acting concern Theatredivasmom mentions transfer out of there after sophomore year to a more acting-based studio? If so, why would they be that unhappy? They would know it's a temporary situation.</p>

<p>Hi, I am a father of a 16 year old junior obsessed with MT since we took her to her first Broadway show years ago. We have stressed academics but encouraged her to spend her free time taking dance, music, and most recently voice lessons. She just finished her first show in community theater and appears to be even more set on pursuing a career in MT. I found this website through a "google search" just a few nights ago and am amazed with the information that I have gained from this board in the short time I have been able to visit it. Our D has been dancing for many years and has spent a week at Camp Broadway during the past two summers and has participated with Bravo's "On with the Show" program both in NYC and her home here in FL. She is probably well behind most of her peers in her pursuit of her MT dream as she attends a magnet school for academically gifted kids that has kept her very busy. I am looking forward to reading, posting and learning from all of you on this board.</p>

<p>scogor</p>

<p>The advice I've read about clothing has been exceptionally good, and I have nothing to add... except about shoes. Find the shoes early and rehearse in them--often. Shoes change your balance, and the last thing you want to be at an audition is off balance. Applies to men as well as women.</p>

<p>mtmommy, oh I realize you were brainstorming. So was I! Just wanted to put forward a factual description of how classes work at Tisch. :)</p>

<p>As for the Writing the Essay class, here's the description of the one for Tisch students. I should add that it is uniformly hated by all NYU freshman, regardless of college affiliation.</p>

<p>"The Tisch Core Curriculum consists of a two-course sequence with a writing workshop section constituting an integral part of each course. Art in the World/Writing the Essay is offered during the fall term, followed by The World Through Art/Writing the World in the spring. Each of the two courses is comprised of a weekly plenary lecture given by a Tisch senior faculty member and a workshop that meets twice a week for both the fall and spring semesters. The courses mix different artistic media so as to integrate students’ various professional interests, and combine practical and theoretical approaches to achieve a comprehensive grasp of the work that art can do in the world. These writing courses are intensive, interdisciplinary and collaborative. Lectures and workshops focus on how to read complex texts for an understanding of their arguments, and how to write well-reasoned essays supported by evidence. These courses are designed to foster an appreciation of how the arts relate to each other and to society in a changing world. These courses will allow students to reflect on a range of social and ethical issues as they pertain to their own creativity."</p>

<p>My D had taken a college level expository writing course at her h/s so had hoped to be able to opt out of this but no such luck. Every freshman must take it regardless of previous similar courses, APs, etc.</p>

<p>You'd think after all the months I've spent on this board that I would know the answer to this question, but I don't! Is Gilbert and Sullivan considered "musical theatre repetoire" ? D loves G and S, has performed it and is dying to use one of the solos for a 16 bar selection. I'm guessing the answer is no, but thought I'd ask the numerous experts here!</p>

<p>alwaysamom--Very helpful. Thanks for the information.</p>

<p>Alwaysamom--That writing course sounds really neat except for the lecture aspect. And it sounds way too ambitious to actually work well. I guess the fact that the students dislike it attests to that!</p>

<p>Doctorjohn--Thanks for the shoe info. Sounds like you may have witnessed some tripping at auditions . . . .</p>

<p>scogor- Welcome aboard! You're the newest obsessed parent who will be clicking the "my favorites" college confidental thread daily, I'm sure! Good luck. The information gained from this site is invaluable.</p>

<p>Thanks. I'm sure you are right about clicking on the "My Favorites" feature as there is a lot of information to digest.</p>

<p>For those of you headed off to the city for parents weekend, my D wanted me to mention a show that will be on tonight and tomorrow that might interest you, in addition to the Tisch things you'll be seeing. This show is a take-off on Forbidden Broadway (which I'm sure you're all probably familiar with) called Forbidden NYU, filled with broadway song parodies about NYU. It's put on by one of the many extra-curricular (non-Tisch) theatre groups at NYU called C.A.S.T. (College of Arts and Science Theatre). My D has a couple of friends involved and says it should be fun. Here are the details:</p>

<p>Friday, 22nd 8 P.M. Silver Center # 703
Sat., 23rd 8 P.M. Kimmel Center, E & L Auditorium, 4th floor</p>

<p>With NYU I.D. $4.00, $5.00 guests. </p>

<p>Have a great time, you freshman parents! :)</p>

<p>Hello everyone,</p>

<p>Just set my d visit to OCU for Jan 21st. We are looking forward to it. We will not be able to see a show but can sit in on a rehearsal, class etc. Will report back on our thoughts about our visit.</p>

<p>lexismom</p>

<p>Dani,</p>

<p>Several posts ago you asked about the importance of dance training for MT and your dilemma with juggling academics. I smiled as I read your post because we have gone and will continue to go through the same struggles at our home. My daughter, like many of the other kids who post here or whose parents post, is also naturally talented and driven both academically and theatrically. She is happiest when performing, but like your parents we, too, emphasize the importance of academic achievement. I should clarify that we do not put any pressure on her to “ace” her courses. She does this to herself, on her own. All that we ask is that she try her best, and have explained that learning, not the grade, is what ultimately counts in life. </p>

<p>Anyhow, when she began attending our District’s magnet middle school for the arts, she had to stop dancing. This was in sixth grade, she is now in ninth. It broke her heart to give up dance, but it was logistically, if not physically, impossible to do it all. </p>

<p>Her middle school was 45 miles away and the schedules were such, that the dance classes were never available by the time that she would get home from school, even when there were no after school rehearsals or performance commitments. We felt that at some point she would get back to dancing, but throughout middle school there were always a number of things that got in the way, including our jobs. And although like you, we too had a nanny, I know that if the schedule had permitted making it to dance classes on time, our nanny would have balked about driving from the train station to the dance lessons.</p>

<p>When my daughter was accepted into the high school of the arts, which is 30 miles away, and requires taking a train to school, just as middle school did, we knew that fitting dance lessons would continue to be a problem. We also realized that her age would be out of sync with the dance level where she could resume. However, I always reassured her that there had to be a solution, if she really wanted to go back to dancing. </p>

<p>Since I am on sabbatical until January, this summer I had flexibility to drive her around. So I went online and also looked through the yellow pages and finally located an intensive summer program where she enrolled and trained with kids whose goals is to dance professionally. My daughter is very determined, like all MT kids are, and although I know that it had to be somewhat embarrassing to train with kids younger than her, she stuck it out and danced with them seven hours a day, five days a week for eight weeks. There was a performance at the end of the summer program, it was almost comical to watch her dancing in her very developed teenage body, alongside prepubescent boys and totally flat chested girls! </p>

<p>To attend this program, I drove 30 miles each way twice a day to get her there and back and another 20 miles each way on top of that, twice a week, for private tap lessons at another city. The point of this lengthy post? That your dance teacher is correct. With intensive training, talent and determination you can catch up in dance for purposes of making it in MT, even if you have to wait until college because you simply cannot fit it in now. </p>

<p>I should also tell you that after just a short time and because of the intensity of the summer training, my daughter is now on pointe, taking lessons in a regular class with girls her age, in a not so intensive environment. (She was ready to start pre-pointe when she stopped dancing at the beginning of sixth grade, so she is now “caught up.”) Thus far, she also has been able to continue with the private tap lessons and has advanced from beginning tap to advanced tap in four months. She had never tapped before and earlier this week, her tap teacher told us that by the end of the school year she intends to have my daughter perform at the studio’s annual recital with the advanced tap class. Since she is taking private lessons, we had assumed that she would not be able to perform at the recital. This came as a welcome surprise. Since she will be performing with seniors who are dedicated tappers with years of experience, it was also a great ego booster. </p>

<p>Although there are outstanding studios closer to home and also within walking distance of her school, where she had hoped to start dancing, we drive 20 miles for dance classes because at this studio they understand her predicaments as a "theater major" who loves dance and the ensuing logistical problems of trying to fit everything in. Unlike the studio near her school and the ones closer to home that insist that their classes and performances take precedence over everything else, here they are willing to work with her. So keep in mind that where a door closes, if you keep looking, another will open. </p>

<p>I should add that my daughter has extraordinary natural ability, but you stated that you catch on quickly and this is one of her attributes. By the way, during the summer she also began private flamenco classes on Saturdays, 50 miles away. She is passionate about flamenco and her flamenco instructor has told her that if she keeps progressing at the rate that she has, she will be ready to perform with her company this coming Spring. Nevertheless, she also knows that if her academic performance is detrimentally affected, something will have to go and most likely it will be her dance and voice lessons. Although dance and voice can be resumed later, academic performance that will get you into college has to remain consistently good to gain acceptance into the more academically selective schools.</p>

<p>I do not believe that what my daughter has accomplished in dance in this short amount of time is unique. With talent and determination it can be done by any talented MT student, even if postponed until college. Although I do believe that it would be unrealistic to think that someone in her situation or yours could aspire to become principals in national ballet companies, I do know that in the case of MT, starting dance “later,” should not be an impediment to success in a college program or later professionally. </p>

<p>To sum it up, dance is a necessity for MT but training can be postponed until college if unable to do it before. Remember, MT is composed mostly of: Dancers who sing and act, Singers who dance and act, and Actors who sing and dance. My daughter’s tap teacher, who danced professionally in Broadway and the reason we began driving 20 miles to take a tap class this summer (she is phenomenal as a dancer and teacher), has stressed that these three different paths lead to the same stage for different types of roles and that fitting the look of a role often weighs just as importantly as talent in getting a part. True triple threats who are equally talented and accomplished in all three areas are rare. </p>

<p>Finally, do not ever forget that maturity and determination will take you farther in any field than experience or talent alone. In the meantime, concentrate on your academics. Aside from providing you with a key to admission into the more academically selective schools, knowledge will always serve you well and is the one thing that no one can ever take away from you. Wishing you the best,</p>

<p>Dramatica</p>