<p>Hi all. I'm going to get creamed for this, but here goes...
After much time spent on getting loans to pay for my d's MT school, I really wonder if it's worth it. I mean, $160K+interest on a Musical Theater degree that might not lead to anything? What a gamble. I'd do anything for my kid, but I need to be realistic, too! I know a VERY talented woman who got an MT degree from Syracuse who hasn't been cast in ANYTHING yet (she's 25). Also, I know a couple of women from the school my d is going to; one is a voice teacher and one isn't doing anything theater-related. I just don't know!!! It's a little late now, but I'm really stressed about this!</p>
<p>Is it worth it? It depends on the kid. I personally think it would be a waste of money to send my D to school for anything else, her heart would not be in it. We do have a clear understanding that she has to be willing to do what it takes to help contribute to her education and to pay off her loans. I think one of the biggest mistakes that parents make is to tell kids what to major in. I grew up in a family where my parents would only let us major in science. It led to 2 out 3 adults who have never enjoyed their careers. That is a waste. My D will have to figure out how to pay off her loans and support herself and she knows it wont be easy but this is what she lives for.</p>
<p>RossJi,
You are not gonna get creamed, don't worry :D. Each of us has different values or ideas about this and there is no right or wrong. I can only share with you MY thoughts on the matter but that is all they are, mine...they may not be right for you, if you know what I mean.</p>
<p>The way I see it is this.....your child is getting a college education. An education is just that. She is going to come out with a more developed mind and have some additional skills in her area of interest. A college degree is not a ticket to a specific job, and that is with ANY major. There are no guarantees that one will get work in the field they majored in. Of course, this is more pronounced as a theater major, a difficult field to break into. Just cause she majored in one thing, does not mean she could never do anything else as far as a job/career. But why not go for the thing you love the most and are likely the most talented at? There is nothing to lose, the way I see it. Your D obviously has talent and some of these kids ARE going to find work on stage when they graduate. I think it is worth going for, just like I would advise any kid to study what they are passionate about....English, Philosophy, History, etc. Those majors don't necessarily "train" you for one kind of job but an educated person with a college degree is employable. I know with my own kid (and I am sure this is true of your D as well), that while her passion and talents lie with musical theater and singing, dancing and acting, she honestly has other strengths and skills and if it comes to it, there are other things she can do besides perform. Now, these skills or strengths differ from one kid to the next. In my d's case, I could see her being a musical director or a piano accompaniest or entertaining in a piano bar. She could choreograph shows or even direct. She has always been a gifted writer and is one who likes to create shows and other sorts of writing. She likes to orchestrate "events". There are lots of jobs in the theater world beyond performing and thus a degree in theater might help with other theatrical employment (ie, working in a casting office, stage managing, teaching theater to kids, etc.). Besides all that, she could work in a completely different field. I think this is true of college graduates of many different majors. If you follow them ten years down the road, their work may not even relate to their college major. But their college degree got them somewhere. As well, since your D is going to NYU, she will be taking liberal arts courses and has the option, if she so chooses, to minor or double major in another area (perhaps that might make you feel better but of course she should only do so if that interests her). </p>
<p>So, I think the college degree will take her places. She will always have her college education. She should make a go of it in her field of musical theater performing and if it does not pan out, she surely will have other career and job options, having gone to college. College is a stepping stone but not a ticket to a specific job or career. That is how I see it. The fact that her major is musical theater and not psychology, is not going to hurt her job prospects in the future. </p>
<p>The expense? I hear ya. It is MIND boggling. I will be paying out loans forEVA! I don't, however, evaluate the "worth" of it based on what major my kids chose. </p>
<p>There's always grad school, LOL.....more money! </p>
<p>I think kids should major in what interests them. The rest will follow. For me, I am not worried about the jobs. I know that theater is a difficult field but I feel confident that either my child will get work on stage or will get related work in theater/arts or some other job. She will be employable. For now, I want her to go for her dreams because theater is her life and I could never stop that, even if I tried, not that I wanna. </p>
<p>That is simply MY perspective, and may not apply to your own thoughts on the subject. I don't know if it helps or if you just need reassurance. Take what you will from it. I can't wait to meet your D next year. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>"You got to have a dream, if you don't have a dream, how you gonna make a dream come true?"</p>
<p>rossji,</p>
<p>If it makes you feel any better, I have a child that is a math and science major at NYU who has no idea what he wants to do after graduation. No one has once questioned his choice of major and in fact I am pretty sure that he will get a job after graduation based on the connections he made in college. And I am sure these jobs will have nothing to do with his major (he is now thinking about politics or business)</p>
<p>My theater child has always had jobs related to theater and not always acting jobs. She has done box office, ushering, office jobs at the theater, she has acted as a sick patient so that medical students could be evaluated, she has been a camp counselor for a theater camp, she has sung at weddings and funerals (making more money than at her day jobs)</p>
<p>I have had the same concerns and have "freaked" out about the cost of college. But wait until your daughter gets there. It will be an experience of a lifetime. She will work very hard, and make some unbelievable connections. Her work ethic will be something that will make you proud. The program is not easy and the majority of kids are so completely driven that it become contagious.</p>
<p>I bumped into my daughter's high school drama teacher. She was adament that NYU was the right choice and that the cost was beside the point (she went to Tisch, as well). And you might ask why her drama teacher was not acting - she did not like auditioning. She said that her schedule at NYU allowed her accumulate enough English credits so that she could be accepted in a masters program for English.</p>
<p>Your daughter will be getting a great education at a top school in something she loves and in a city that doesn't sleep... what more could you ask for?</p>
<p>Hope this helps!! PM me if you need any moral support -</p>
<p>My friend graduated with a BA in Business and doesn't know what to do. Another friend graduated two years ago with a Pre-Med degree and doesn't want to go into medicine.</p>
<p>What am I saying? Just cause a student majors and graduates with a degree in a "real" major, it doesn't mean they are going to work in that profession or even be successful. Are the odds against a MT major? Considering how many are out of work, yes. But I would much rather be a happy person who pursues what he is interested in rather than stuck studying a major that doesn't light my fire.</p>
<p>An important thing to know is how much desire does your child have to work in the MT field. If they do not have or demonstarate the drive and desire, it's best to get them out of that now. I think lots of kids see a musical theater major as something that's fun that doesn't require a lot of hard work (ha ha). Once they get into a program, they see that it is a real "job" and that this fun major requires work.</p>
<p>Another suggestion...your child might enroll at a community college while taking outside voice/dance/acting classes. This way you'll be able to see if they still have the desire to do MT while taking a full class load. They can always transfer to a music school if they do desire to continue.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>awwwwww.......that song is "happy talk." i sang that as a solo in elementary school. what a funny little memory.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for your comments! Of course, my d will be getting an excellent education and just might not go into the MT field, like so many OTHER students who don't pursue their major after graduation. I have to say, Klri, that your son, majoring in math and science, will have NO PROBLEM getting a great job! I'm a math teacher, and they can never find enough great science/math teachers because the ones who majored in those subjects are all out making a lot more money in those fields!
Oc(i forgot your forum name and don't know how to go back, sorry!), there is no doubt in my mind that my d wants to do MT. She is as obsessed or more so than anyone else on this forum. If she wasn't, I would definitely insist she major in something else. But thanks for the advice, anyway!
I am insisting that she pay for half her college; I was willing to send her to a decent school for half the amt. of NYU, and told her if she wanted a more expensive school, she'd have to pay half. Looks like the bird will fly home to nest for awhile after graduation so she can start paying up...:)
Anyway, you are all so comforting and supportive. Especially you, SoozieVT. You are always there for anyone who needs a "shoulder"! Are you a counselor, perchance? If not, it's something you should look into!
TT everyone soon!</p>
<p>Rossji,
Please tell us you told your D she'd have to pay for half of what is probably the most expensive program in the country before she applied, auditioned, and made the decision to go. Please, please, PLEASE tell us you didn't drop this bomb on her 'til after the fact. Starting out in this field with $90,000 in debt almost assures failure.</p>
<p>Of course I did! She still wanted to do it, though. I haven't yet told her that she'll also have to pay for half her wedding.....jk.</p>
<p>Rossji,
Daaaaaaang! With her stats and the fact that she got in CAP21 ED, she would've probably gotten big scholarships at several other places. Sorry for the terseness of the last part of my post. I've just had the value of starting off without or with little debt beaten into me to the point that I instinctively shake my head when I see people saddle themselves with a lot of it in the name of prestige or some romantic idea. What good is a Beamer if you can't afford the payments? I am glad she knew what she was getting into beforehand. I just hope she understood the ramifications.</p>
<p>It's all a giant balancing act. If our child had expressed ANY thoughts of possible other majors/pursuits, we would have highly encouraged that - but she never did. Even when we demanded she come up with a "Plan B", they all revolved around the same things - dancer, choreographer, or a singer, or teaching same.</p>
<p>We felt it extremely important that if she were going to pursue her goal to the ultimate level - moving to NY upon graduation, and entering the vast talent pool - that she graduate debt-free. We've been saving for college, and she was fortunate enough to get scholarships from her school, and a few other sources. Between that, and what she can reasonably expect to make from summer work, we should be close to that goal.</p>
<p>That goal caused us to immediately eliminate some schools which would have been totally beyond our means. Not just the college costs, but also the travel expenses for schools that were so far away that every trip would require airfare. (and - not just HER airfare - come on, parents, do you really want your child to be somewhere that you couldn't go see them in their shows??)</p>
<p>Everyone's circumstance is different - we were not in a position to shoulder tons of debt ourselves (bless those parents who can and do!), and it's difficult to imagine jobs that would be financially rewarding enough to repay massive debt, and still leave the freedom to pursue an acting career at the same time.</p>
<p>Therefore the balancing act - there are lots of schools that are under the radar, but are producing brilliant talent. Everyone must decide for themselves how much the non-educational aspects are a factor -- "Ivy" school with established reputation, showcases or other connections to people in the industry, the advantage of living in NYC, etc. For some, those are every bit as important as the training itself, and if so, then the expense is justified for them. Some may opt for a middle-of-the road feel about those issues, and some don't see the peripherals as a matter of importance at all.</p>
<p>AND - hard though it is for us to believe, given our daughter's plans - but not everyone who pursues an MT degree has the ultimate goal of Broadway! So, their ideas of what is important may vary greatly.</p>
<p>Businesses do "cost benefit analysis" when they are planning mergers, or new ventures - look at the total picture. The answers won't be the same for everyone, but they should be considered in the process.</p>
<p>MusThCC,
A balanced and rational approach. It is hard to figure out where to put the precious resources.</p>
<p>Yes, it IS difficult to decide just how much a parent is willing to spend for ANY college education. I agree that a good approach is for the parents to decide before a student applies/auditions at a school just how much they are willing to spend on college for ANY degree. And as for is it worth it or not...who knows? I know of some that have never attended a day of college that have had great success. Others that have attended two year programs such as AMDA with great success. And of course students that have attended the hard to get into programs that are mentioned in this discussion that have had success also. On the other hand...I have known many more from all of the above that have struggled for a living. Which of course may mean that Mom and Dad need to continue to help out.<br>
I do feel that a college education is important to have...in what ever field the student is passionate about.</p>
<p>Hi all - I just posted this on another MT thread ("MT major not such a hot idea") and thought it might be helpful here, too! An aside: I have actually seen many of the D's and S's of posters here perform from being at their respective schools visiting my students and watching THEM perform - a VERY talented group! : )</p>
<p>To Jalexis:
Hi - I'm a new poster but a longtime vocal coach/musical theatre teacher who has students currently at UM (Michigan), CMU, and PPU (Point Park), all in the BFA Musical Theatre programs (which is referred to as Acting/Musical Theatre at CMU). Something in one of your posts stood out to me because it parallels something I always tell my students who are passionate about MT but facing parental hesitations/resistance: you said you told yourself you'd audition at some of the top schools and if you got into even one, you'd take that as a sign that some people out there believe you have potential. That is a GREAT and CORRECT philosophy. Schools like UM, CMU, and CCM see hundreds of applicants, as you know, and have their selection process finely-honed - they KNOW what they want! They want people who show them unique talent and charisma (not in the generic sense, but in the "that person is INTERESTING sense") plus trainability that will lead to eventual MARKETABILITY in the field (be in stage, film, or tv). So, you are right in assuming if you do get into a highly-selective school, it shows that you have "something." Perhaps your mom will become comfortable with the idea that such an admission would be "proof" of great potential in the MT professional world. </p>
<p>As some other posters have pointed out, you ARE very young - but I applaud you for thinking about our college path already! College admissions for MT are more and more and MORE competitive - and although as a boy, you have an advantage overall as compared to girls, the top schools have recently taken a slew of GREAT guys - so it never hurts to focus your training as much as possible on your possible MT goal. A piece of advice a wonderful CMU grad (now working on Broadway) gave to some of my younger students: see as much theatre as you can - good, bad, ANY theatre. It will help you to become more aware of yourself as a performer and of the field as a whole. In addition, get in the habit of reading online theatre news DAILY if you can - I recommend playbill.com and talkinbroadway.com (the All That Chat forum.) It will acquaint you with many shows which may be new to you (which helps SO much in picking audition pieces) and, again, with the field in general. (At Michigan, playbill.com is required daily reading for Freshmen MT's - their program provides an EXCELLENT foundation of "business of the business" knowledge as well as performance skills.)</p>
<p>Good luck - and feel free to contact me with any questions (that goes for anyone else on the Board, too) - I have extensive info from several years of helping numerous students prepare for their auditions. In addition, I was a high school "academic" (not arts) classroom teacher in my first career, so I can address your mom's concerns about stability, wasted money, etc. Many of my students have had the experience of having to choose between full academic scholarships to pre-med or engineering programs and MT admission to a highly-selective school, and I have been able to be a fairly objective party in that process.</p>
<p>I remember one information session at a major theater school where the instructor closed his remarks with something like the following:</p>
<p>
[quote]
One thing we know without a doubt here at [XYZ school] is that each and every one of you is here because YOU truly WANT to be here. Unlike other majors at this school, we can be sure no one is in this room today because your parents or family talked you into majoring in theater. "
[/quote]
This got a huge laugh and applause in the room.</p>
<p>I am actually surprised that I haven't heard more parents directly discuss their ambivalence about this difficult major in this forum. Many parents have posted their support for their child's choice, but most imply they would have supported any major they would have chosen, or are blessed with the positive mindset to do whatever it takes to make it work. But I will bet that few parents here actually suggested/urged theater or MT to their child as a choice, in the same way that some parents suggest law, business or medicine. I'm sure most parents have huge concerns about the cost, the viability and the stress of taking this road though these posts don't surface much. I hope other parents continue to share their worries and doubts here so that just like their kids they can benefit from the great support we have going on this forum.</p>
<p>For me, personally, if I have doubts or worries I don't post them or even bring them into consciousness - if my D is a great writer (she is), it wouldn't do any good to wish that she'd consider an English major - she would not. This whole MT/theater thing is so self-driven that I try to simply support and help her (with info and $$, mostly) and then step back and let her do the rest. </p>
<p>If I did feel I needed support, though, this is the place I'd come!</p>
<p>Hi, Chrism--Are you thinking that an English major would be a safer major for your D than MT? I'm in the "English" field, and I don't think an English major is any more valuable than an MT major. While an English major can qualify a graduate for certain types of business jobs, as well as teaching English or certain professional writing jobs, so can an MT major qualify a graduate for performing, arts/business jobs, and teaching theatre, music, or dance. Additionally there are other creative jobs related to performing arts--the most obvious of these are directing and choreography. That's why I'm not too worried about my D going after a performing arts degree (she's like your D in that I couldn't stop her anyway LOL). However, I would like her to get her college degree!</p>
<p>Mtmommy,
I'm not sure "safer" is the word I'd use, but maybe more marketable? I hear of many people with English degrees that are employed in all kids of fields. But you know, no matter what she chose there would be some concerns...so that's why I try not to think about it too much but go with the flow, so to speak.</p>
<p>Another thing to note about English majors in "all kinds of fields" is that a lot of English majors do get hired in various unrelated fields, but they are not working at what they love (which is why they became English majors to begin with). The same thing happens with theatre majors, as we know. So what's the difference what they major in? Both disciplines are rigorous and teach students a lot about human psychology and human society. MTs have the same benefits, plus they can sing and dance . . . .</p>