<p>Just curious (and I don't mean for this to be an argument and hope it doesn't sound that way) - do MT majors who aren't performing have the same range of options as English majors do? It doesn't seem to me that they do, but maybe that's just because I know more English majors!</p>
<p>Chrism, I wrote a post on the "MT Major Not Such a Hot Idea" thread about the marketability of college graduates in general. Many, many of the kids I know who graduate from college are not self sufficient unless they are in rather directed fields of study such as nursing, engineering, etc. So this is a concern of all parents. </p>
<p>In a sense, you send them to college to grow up and check out a field of study. If they find that something else that is different later, they can take courses at a community college or local state program or tech school to supplement the basic degree. A BFA from XYZ College can be supplemented by a certificate from ABC School of Technology or some businesses courses that with maturity can lead into a self sufficient job. I know a number of English majors back in school to get a teaching certificate for their state or some business courses to get some idea of what a spread sheet or financial statement is, or perhaps taking some tech writing courses to learn the medical and technical terms for the health field. But the kids usually do this pretty much on their own dime and with a part time job. Self sufficient? Usually not. Many of S's performing arts majors work in various flexible low pay jobs as they audition and wait for a break. Some then move on to less flexible jobs that pay more and then they audition less, but by then they have gotten to know people in their field, get leads more, etc. The transition period seems to be necessary for the arts because getting to know people is very important. When you look at the number of kids graduating from Tisch and how many of them find gainful employment in their field, it is not an optimistic number. And each year a new crop graduates. And each year the market is flooded with kids coming to NYC from other schools, or no schools checking out the scene.</p>
<p>I heard today that no one from the freshman MT class of 2005 at CCM got cut. They had an usually small class- only 16 this year. I went to the freshman showcase and am very pleased to hear that no one is leaving.</p>
<p>-Nick</p>
<p>What were your thoughts on the showcase?</p>
<p>Does anyone know if you can audition for both programs at UM? I believe you can audtion separately for dance and MT at UM - but can you for a straight acting BFA as well?</p>
<p>And I would assume this might involve 2 applications - 2 audition dates - etc.</p>
<p>I'll post this over on the Arts thread too.</p>
<p>Thanks for any help - you helpful people.....(and thesbo- I think you could also major in computer science if you wanted to..how the heck do you get all those links in there....no- don't answer - I wouldn't understand it anyway....just let me think of it as 'magic')</p>
<p>janenw</p>
<p>Jane - You got lucky because I happened to have out tonight some prior year college applications that we got from campus visits (trying to help organize S to think about essay requirements!). Based on last year's application for Michigan's School of Music, you may apply and audition for multiple programs: dance, musical theatre, theatre performance (choices are acting and directing), voice performance. I will quote a paragraph from the form below:</p>
<p>"Musical Theatre, Theatre, and Dance applicants applying to more than one of these programs: Due to the extensive nature of these auditions, it is not possible to audition in Ann Arbor for more than one program on any single date. Please indicate different dates for each program. Exception: Musical Theatre and Voice Performance."</p>
<p>It appears that your answer is - 1 application, 2 audition dates.</p>
<p>i'll put this here for lack of a better place. i think it's good info for all those auditioning and looking for schools. we were at ocu this week and had a good conversation there with someone in the mt and theatre programs. it seems that dr. heredeen (who also heads their mt program) took over the theatre program only about a year or so ago and has been steadily working to bring it in line with their mt program, as far as quality and reputation. they already have excellent instructors because that's just how ocu operates. they've only had auditions for theatre for maybe a couple of years. not sure when they started, but it's recently. so that's one way they are upgrading the quality of the program......just getting stronger theatre students. another fact that we were very pleased to hear is that they are in the process of making it a bfa program. that should come about very soon. so, should our child stay in the theatre program, she will receive a bfa in theatre performance which is what most of these kids want. well, that's it for the info. just wanted those looking into this year's round of auditions to know that; because it's very exciting. some of you may not get into the mt program for one reason or another, yet may get invited into their theatre performance program and i want you to know that you have good things to look forward to, if that's the case. my child also attended a classical theatre camp there and learned some very interesting and insightful things about their audition process and how they make their decisions. we now understand what happened with her and know that vocal talent was not the factor. we were so dumbfounded about it all, and it all makes a little more sense now and i want to share that info with the forum because we believe if we had known then what we know now, we would have received an acceptance letter for mt at ocu. and i know many of you want one of those and so at a later time, when i have more time, i'll sit down and write out all that we learned. i suspect that this info would apply to many schools. it really goes to show, that you need to talk to people who have auditioned before and know as much as possible about a school's audition process before going. you can read their official information. but, there are many unwritten criteria that they look at and it can make or break you. there's just so much competition for the programs and so many talented kids that they have to use some quick and easy elimination techniques to narrow the field. and for those of you who have already auditioned but didn't get into your chosen program, know that there are many reasons having nothing to do with your ability to sing, that can eliminate you from the chosen few. even though it didn't change the end result, it made all of us feel much better to understand that. we're heading out for a cruise today, returning saturday. but, when i return, i'll share with you what we learned. have a great week.</p>
<p>Razorback wrote:
"for those of you who have already auditioned but didn't get into your chosen program, know that there are many reasons having nothing to do with your ability to sing, that can eliminate you from the chosen few."</p>
<p>While I think it is great that you received information and feedback with regard to your D's audition at OCU and what they are looking for and so forth.....I think the above statement would ring true for anyone and is a total given. For musical theater admissions, it is WAY more than just ability to sing. Yes, you gotta be able to sing. But this is not a vocal performance admissions process. An applicant needs to be able to sing, to dance, to act, to act a song, to have stage presence, and at some programs to have a very good GPA and rank and test scores, strength in essays and activities, personal qualities....and even THEN if a student has all those things and is strong at singing, dancing, AND acting, he/she still might not get in if he/she does not fill a need or slot in the class. But no matter what, if anyone applying for MT thought it was just about being able to sing, they would be going into the process quite ill informed. Most schools require a singing, acting and dance audition in the first place (though some do not hold a dance audition but may ask for dance background). Even within the singing component, one can't just have a good voice but must also be able to PRESENT the song as this is theater, not merely singing. So, a lot of skills go into this beyond singing itself. So, if someone is an excellent singer but does not have the other things on the above list, it is not going to earn a slot when there are way too few slots to begin with. Because even those solid in all these areas, still might not get a slot. Being solid just as a singer itself is not enough by far. </p>
<p>So, if someone is not admitted, they cannot just look at the singing. I'd go even beyond THAT and saying that someone could have been great at every single component and still not been admitted. I know far too many examples of kids who got into certain selective programs and not others and so it is hard to say the kid was not talented enough when certain programs said yes, and some said no. The results in those cases is more indicative of the selective process and low admit rates and there are going to be very talented kids who get some rejections yet are admitted to other selective programs. A few examples.....KID 1 got into UM + Tisch, but not Emerson or Penn State, KID 2 got into CCM and Tisch but not Syracuse, KID 3 got into CCM and CMU but not UM, KID 4 got into UM but not Syracuse, KID 5 got into Tisch, Boston Conservatory, Syracuse but not Emerson, and so forth. The case where you have to analyze where any "problems" existed is more when a student has been "closed out" of all the programs he/she applied to.</p>
<p>Bear with me..... I'm new at all of this!</p>
<p>My son will be a senior next year and we are gearing up for the MT application process.</p>
<p>He has proven to us that he wants to do this more than anything in the world - and I'm ready to move mountains to help him. He has some MT background - lots of community theatre, worked last summer at a local professional theatre, has taught hip-hop dance at the local dance school. He is, however, young for his class. His grades are in the B range, but his SAT scores are exceptionally high. (I dunno.... I'm told schools would rather see really high grades.) I'm wondering if anyone has ever considered doing a PG year at Interlochen?</p>
<p>He is clear on all of the BFA programs that he wants to audition for. I'm now trying to come up with some ideas and options if things don't work out, i.e. non-audition schools, etc.</p>
<p>He is spending the summer at CMU and I know that experience will give him a lot of information as to whether he is really ready to go for the BFA.</p>
<p>Anyway, if anyone has any experience with Interlochen - especially their PG program, I would love to hear about it.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>yes, susan, that is all true, of course. i took all that as a given, just based on all the past information. i was not at all trying to imply that it's just about the singing. my reference was more specifically about our specific situation. at ocu, if you don't get past that vocal audition, you can be fred astaire and katherine hepburn all rolled into one and you won't get in. there's is a music school with music theatre in it and has a huge, huge focus on opera and classical music. if you don't get a certain score on your vocal audition, the others really don't matter. it's not a compilation or an average. now, that won't apply probably to other schools. that's just our understanding of how they function. that's why i said what i did about the singing in particular. you can come out of that process so disheartened, thinking you don't have the talent. and at 18, it's so hard to keep your head up when you don't get in. i just wanted to make the point, which is basically, what you're saying, that there are a number of reasons, none of them having anyting to do with your talent.....singing, dancing, or acting. it was just uplifting to my child to discover a couple of valid reasons for getting rejected (which was just based on that singing audition, as she was offered their top scholarship for theatre and they only have dance leveling, not audition) that had nothing to do with her ability to sing or perform. some of it was just a personal reflection.</p>
<p>in re-reading my post, i realize that last statement did seem to totally simplify the audition process down to singing. i guess when i wrote it, i was pretty focused on just our specific situation. so, i can see how it might have been misinterpreted. but, yes, there a million factors that go into that decision-making process and i didn't mean to narrow it down to that at all. but, i would say basically the same thing about the process......that being to not read those letters thinking they're a reflection of your talent and ability, that there are numerous factors being considered and "red flags" that they might perceive, and when they're seeing hundreds of kids, some slip through the cracks and get eliminated for a multitude of reasons. i just want these kids to look into themselves for their talent and not let their talent be dictated by any outside source, such as a judging panel.</p>
<p>I do understand, Razorback. I was commenting in general. I do think it is helpful if you were able to receive feedback with regard to her specific audition. </p>
<p>At all MT programs, you gotta be able to sing. You really need the other stuff I mentioned as well but you are right, if you can't sing well, the other stuff is not gonna compensate. I think you gotta get past the singing criteria but I was just saying that singing is not enough alone. Sometimes if a kid is not a triple threat, and one or two of the three areas is strong and one is a bit weak, they may still get in if there is potential in the weaker area. However, with singing, THAT can't be the weaker area. So, you are right that you must get "past" singing. I was just saying if someone is rejected, there is a lot more beyond singing that is considered so a fantastic singer can still be rejected. And even if everything lines up in all the areas, you still might not get in. That is why kids have to be a bit thick skinned with this and not take a rejection personally. If they have the requisite overall talent, it is likely they should be able to get into one program, but they have to apply to SEVERAL. NOBODY could base an assessment of their talent on the outcome of applying to just one single BFA program. Had my child done that at her first audition and chalked it up as not being good enough cause she got into the college but not their BFA in MT, it would have been silly because in the end, she got into five BFAs and waitlisted at one and so an assessment based on ONE outcome would not be enough to go by. As mentioned in my earlier post, I know kids accepted at the top programs who still got rejected at some other ones (even ones often considered less competitive or prestigious so to speak). </p>
<p>4KidsMom, it sounds like you guys are on the right track. If you are looking at a back up plan and your son is agreeable and interested in a post grad year, then looking into that at Interlochen would be worthwhile (sorry not familiar with it). I'd have to hear why an extra year is appropriate for him or if he (and you) feel he is ready for college. Each case is very different. I have a kid graduating a year early on top of being ahead a year in school before that decision and thus she is going to college at 16 1/2. But for her, every aspect of her development...academic, social, personal, and artistic was weighed in this decision. I don't know the issues in your son's case other than you said he is "young" but it sounds like you are forging ahead on applying to college so perhaps this is appropriate I'm assuming but the post grad year at Interlochen is more a back up plan or is it that you think an extra year would be beneficial in his case? </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Yes, it would be a back-up plan - but probably not a bad one. If he doesn't get in anywhere, it couldn't hurt for him to take some time, mature a little and get more voice, drama and dance training. Interlochen is near Univ. of Michigan - so he'd have a chance to see what living in that area is like.</p>
<p>4KidsMom--Interlochen isn't near University of Michigan--same state, different areas. What is the Interlochen program you're talking about?</p>
<p>Mtmommy,</p>
<p>For us "Easterners," when you are at Interlochen, you are "close" to the U of M..........tee, hee........couldn't resist........</p>
<p>University of Michigan is about 4 hours away from Interlochen....we stopped by it along the way one of the summers I went there.....</p>
<p>RE: OCU</p>
<p>I know someone who got into the OCU MT program via a video tape audition. Which, to be honest with you, I have mixed feelings about video taped college auditions. It is def a benefit for the video auditioner versus a live audition because there is no nervousness.</p>
<p>Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Gosh - 4 hours is nothing when you live 12+ hours away! :)</p>
<p>Interlochen has a "postgraduate" year. The postgraduate year is designed for the student who desires an additional year in a high school setting to focus on greater artistic preparation before entering a college or conservatory.</p>
<p>I don't know much about it - other than what I have read on their web-site. Just thought it was worth learning about and seeing if anyone here has attended it or knows more.</p>
<p>4KidsMom--Does Interlochen's postgraduate year allowing specializing in musical theatre? Just wondering, since I guess their regular school doesn't have MT (just the summer program).</p>
<p>4 hours is really nothing when you live in southern CA. Some days that can be the way to work! But in Michigan, the distance between UM and Interlochen is huge (I guess that's more mental, than geographic).</p>
<p>Interlochen is a wonderful place. While my daughter did the camp, not the academy, she has friends who will be doing the academy this year for senior year. I would bet the post grad year is great. </p>
<p>Definitely worth looking into.</p>