Colleges for Musical Theater - PART 39 !

<p>Especially if you have a cool 32k lying around somewhere. Jeesh!</p>

<p>As far as Interlochen vs. college goes...</p>

<p>I went to the camp for 5 years there (in both musical theatre and just acting) and spent 3 years as an acting major at the academy (no, there is no official musical theatre major -- but you can take all the classes you normally would if that major did exist) and now major in musical theatre at CMU. </p>

<p>While Interlochen is a valuable experience -- and it definitely is from a musical theatre stand point -- I would advocate moving forward from highschool and not pursuing a post graduate year there for several reasons. From my experience, Interlochen was already like a mini college situation for me -- moving away from home, taking responsibility for your own education, a demanding curriculum, etc. Actually, when I first got to college -- a lot of things felt like a review of material I had already learned (which of course was actually a great chance to cement some concepts)... But, mainly my big issues would be with time and money -- with this business being the way it is, youth can be such a huge advantage -- it's hard enough committing to four years of study in college (and not leaving early for jobs) AND the hefty price tag that can come with studying...and since Interlochen was nearly a college experience itself (and can also have a very hefty price tag without scholarships) -- why not just go to college instead?? However, some people may audition for MT schools their senior year - and not get accepted to their school of choice...then, maybe the post graduate year would be valuable -- as a chance to work on some things you need to work on, and try the college audition circuit again the next year...so as a "safety" option, I guess. </p>

<p>There also is the Interlochen college "burn out" - kids who really are talented, have studied a lot -- and then get to college only to be doing the exact same thing that they were doing years ago in highschool (hopefully for not too long though - depending on what school you go to, I guess) - and who instead of using that time to improve upon their basic technique and skills - just get really frustrated and drop out. Some go on to work, some I know have left acting all together. But, that may not really be an issue for your son, especially if he is only there for a year before college. </p>

<p>However, everyone is different and perhaps this is the right option for your son...I would definitely recommend visiting Interlochen during the Academy year, along with the colleges your son hopes to go to, and see what environment is the best fit... That may a be a more determining factor as to which is the best option (and also ...which option is available in regards to acceptances - which Interlochen tends to be pretty minimal on, especially for the post graduate year.) Good luck!</p>

<p>Daughter just returned from 1 week Vocal Intensive at Oklahoma City University, which is the first year they have offered it. She is now smitten with the place and said that it was fantastic training and the people were great. There was lots of 1 on 1 as there was only 16 students 14f 2m Also had an RA that was a jr. MT student so she got a great orientation to many aspects of the program. For 350.00 including room and board, it was one of the best values around and I am sure the list will be long next year so apply early. Now off to Cap21 in 2 weeks and auditions starting 8 weeks after that.</p>

<p>Looking forward to working through this with all of you and sharing our experiences with the parents behind us. We really would not have been anywhere near this prepared if it had not been for the students and parents that have contributed here. Thanks to all!</p>

<p>birdboy782-</p>

<p>If you have some time and are willing, it would be great if you would post your experience with CMU. So many students that are planning to audition for CMU this coming year would appreciate your input.</p>

<p>Yeah, I'd be willing to do that. A friend just passed this site onto me yesterday, and it looked interesting. </p>

<p>Is there anything in particular that anyone might want me to address? Any rumors to dispel, confusions/misunderstandings, questions?</p>

<p>Birdboy - I'll take a shot at a few questions, and you can answer what you want to. Where else did you audition? Where else were you accepted? How would you compare CMU's audition to the others? Are you now happy you chose CMU, or is there something you know now you wish you had known then that may have steered you another direction? What about the CMU dance - we've heard it is not as advanced as some other programs? How do you feel about waiting 2 years to audition for a main stage production? Are you finding other performance opportunities? Is there anything about the program that is stressful? Thanks!</p>

<p>Okay, I'll start with those then.</p>

<p>I was accepted into CMU through the pre-college program. I went knowing that they did the "mock auditions" at the end of the session and realized that the whole program could serve as an audition in itself, actually -- which I thought was a huge advantage...getting six weeks of some of the faculty seeing your work and progress while getting to know you versus six minutes in a regular audition. I went to pre-college with CMU being my top choice of schools. Fortunately, a bit after the end of the program, a letter arrived alongside my evaluations saying that I had been accepted into the School of Drama and would have to formally apply to the university to make it official. It was also at this point that I received an offer for a year long contract with a regional theatre -- and decided to graduate highschool early and take my senior year as a "year off" to get some more professional experience before committing to four more years of training - which was great for me. So, I can't really speak too much about how the audition process went for me, as mine isn't the norm. After I knew I had been accepted to CMU, it was suggested to me by the school to get accepted at least one other place with scholarships, hopefully - so that the financial aid office would match or better another package being offered to me somewhere else. So, I decided to audition for UofM -- and was accepted with a full scholarship. That plan unfortunately backfired ...because...CMU is a private university - and UofM is public. So, CMU said that they couldn't compete with a public university's scholarship package. It had to be another private university. So -- make sure not to get confused about that issue!! That was an unfortunate mistake. </p>

<p>Not every university is for every person. CMU is a great school and was and is the ideal match for me for many reasons. My first priority was acting -- I did NOT want to go to a school that was in any way weak in acting. (Actually, it's been common for students to come to CMU and start over as a freshmen because they wanted better acting training -- my class had several students come in from CCM, BYU, Colorado, etc. to start over. Also, some students come with extensive professional experience - even broadway, tours, sitcoms, etc - before they ever started CMU. ) At CMU the MTs take all the same acting classes the acting majors take (except for a combat class junior year) in ADDITTION to their MT training. This is very rare. I wanted to go to a school where I felt I was BEHIND everyone else. I didn't want to be a big fish in a little pond - but rather be surrounded by the most talented and dedicated students possible, whom I could be learning from all the time just by watching them -- and constantly trying to "up my game" (not in a weird competitive way). And this is what happens -- your class is so small (9 in mine), and you're always with eachother and seeing eachothers work day in and day out -- and people always surprise you - which is great -- and you see them do something which suddenly makes something (related or un) click for you, and you grow. In my experience a good school isn't just excellent facilities (although we have those), and great teachers (certainly have those, too) -- but the ensemble of a class that surrounds you. Those are the people who teach you the most -- and I've fortunately been blessed with an amazingly talented group of people surrounding me to learn from -- and fail safely in front of in a supportive environment. We are a family! hehe. Also, I did not want to be in New York yet. Once again -- everyone is different, but I am easily distracted by the constant lure of jobs -- as it is now, I get to NYC as often as I can to get seen in auditions -- but if I lived there, I probably would have left school long ago. I really wanted to commit fully to four years of school without having one foot in training and one in the "real world."</p>

<p>As far as dancing goes -- not to sound silly, but CMU is known in the business as a school that produces "leads." Acting and singing is our main priority, and dancing is the third on most people's lists. That said however, it's not that there aren't amazing dancers that are at/have gone through this school -- it's just usually not something that willl keep someone who they really want from being accepted. It's like: "You're a phenomenal dancer, too? Great!" or "You need to work on dance, don't you -- let's get to it." Any class is always a mixed bag. Since I've been at school, many students have been hired as dancers -- Cagelle in bway's La Cage, 42nd St, Good Vibrations, Wicked, Mamma Mia, a featured dancer in the current Evita tour, dancers at MUNY, CLO, etc. Our class was split into two dance sections when we arrived at school - beginner/intermediate and advanced. The huge advantage of this is having about 4 -5 people per dance class. LOTS and LOTS of individual attention. And the dance teachers are great - and always challenging you to push you forward. </p>

<p>As far as the not performing for the first two years - here's my two cents. I came to school to learn and to train - not to perform. I have been performing professionally since I was eight years old - I wanted to take time off from the pressure of performance, and do the classwork fully. And as people have mentioned, there is absolutely no extra time available. This schedule is NOT for the weak hearted -- its all day and every day. Class all. day. long. And then scene rehearsals, project rehearsals, voice work, memorization, class work, etc -- after getting done with class late at night. It doesn't stop - ever. Not until you graduate. And I certainly would not want to trade my valuable class time and individual attention during freshmen or sophomore year to be in the chorus for some musical instead. And also -- you actually don't perform on the mainstage junior year. Junior year you perform in the studio theatres -- senior year is reserved for the mainstage productions. But, in the summers I have found professional performance opportunities (hey - I'm workin now!) So, no, two years off from performing was a breath of fresh air. And frankly, it was worth the wait - we get some pretty amazing guest directors to do our mainstage productions (such as John Carrafa doing Urinetown this upcoming fall.)</p>

<p>Stressful : yes, stress is a HUGE issue. But that's just the profession. It's learning how to manage it in a healthy way -- and not letting it negatively affect you too much. This profession must be one of the most stressful ones out there!!! </p>

<p>And also another amazing thing about the program - they are always working on it and trying to make it better for us. They have new ideas every semester on how they can make some things easier/less stressful for us, getting some extra additional classes we requested, concerns about how things are done, etc -- the faculty and administration is so OPEN and RESPONSIVE to our constructive criticism and suggestions as students going through the program. This doesn't mean that we always get our way -- but they are always willing to consider, and always very reasonable. Also, being that the school and classes are so small - it is very easy to develop close mentorships and student/teacher relationships that extend beyond class hours. The teachers are always willilng to go an extra mile for you outside of class hours - if you are, too. They all become personally invested in your work and your future. It's a great feeling to be so supported and cared about as a young actor. Not often do you get such care and attention.</p>

<p>On a final note: showcases. I agree 200% that a school with a good showcase is a must. Someone mentioned somewhere on here that this year every senior had been signed with an agent in either NYC or LA - or both...and I am happy to report that that is true. This is a HUGE advantage for a young performer -- to be seen by many industry professionals in a presentation on their own terms - putting their best foot forward. The class that graduated a year ago has had some amazing results so far (which was our first year doing our showcase without being combined with any other schools) -- we have had people land starring roles in major motion pictures, prime time sitcoms and dramas, four broadway shows, national tours, commercials, etc. -- even a senior who just graduated a month ago was seen by Telsey casting at the showcase and was offered the Chicago production Glinda u/s in Wicked. Showcase is a HUGE advantage. And yes, bringing casting directors to your school is important -- we have several that we both bring in and that volunteer to come in on their own -- but you will NEVER get the same exposure you have by getting 5 showcase performances in both NYC and LA in front of a packed house of industry folk again in your lifetime as a performer. It's an amazing once in a lifetime opportunity.</p>

<p>Okay, well - this went on much longer than expected. Let me know if anyone has anything else they're curious about...!</p>

<p>birdboy ~</p>

<p>What an awesome response.....thank you so much for your detailed description of CMU. </p>

<p>I have a question about the CMU pre-college program. My son is going this summer. Tell me about the dance classes. I called CMU yesterday and got a confusing answer as to what classes he will be taking, how kids are placed, etc. He has taken lots of hip-hop and tap, but no ballet.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>birdboy782 could not have said it better in regards to his CMU experience. I know my S is having a similar experience there.</p>

<p>One aspect of CMU training that I find impressive that birdboy did not mention is "Playground Week". For those of you that will be visiting CMU this upcoming school year, ask about this amazing week. My S has benefited very much from "Playground". He wrote, produced, staged, directed, acted in, his own piece this year for "Playground". It can be a great training ground for students who "love to do it all".</p>

<p>Sorry...I must disagree with you birdboy 200%. I feel a senior showcase is not a must for attending a musical theater school. Oklahoma City University does not offer a showcase for good reason.</p>

<p>Broadway casting director Dave Clemmons (who appears twice a year) told the school that showcases are becoming a thing of the past. Agents, casting directors and such do not feel the need to have to go out to showcases and select students. And he's right. OCU has produced renowned Broadway performers like Kristin Chenoweth and Kelli O'Hara without a showcase. OCU brings numerous casting/talent agents to the university itself which generates work for graduating students. OCU alumni have recently been cast in national tours of Sussical, Oklahoma, Crazy for You, 42nd Street and more. </p>

<p>It's great if you would like to attend a school and they have a showcase. However, as demonstrated, it is not a must. It's the supurb training that will get you the job.</p>

<p>If anyone has any questions about this or Oklahoma City University, please feel free to ask!</p>

<p>It's funny that you mention Dave Clemmons. He was at CMU maybe two months ago. Anyway, Dave is full of contradictions, isn't he? He has also ranted about how American Idol and pop music is/and will be the downfall of Broadway, but yet -- what has he most recently cast but BROOKLYN -- which is the closest thing yet to American Idol to exist on the broadway stage. He's also casting a new jukebox musical in the works right now.</p>

<p>Anyway, back on topic -- he actually has said just the opposite thing to us. He cast three young men in leading roles alongside your Ms. O'Hara in Dracula last season whom he met through showcase! He has raved about our showcase and the talent our school produces. But, it honestly doesn't really matter what anyone's OPINION on this issue is -- because the FACTS are not to be disputed with. The FACT is that each student gets an amazing opportunity for exposure in both NYC and LA -- presenting themselves in a scene and a song (in our version) for an invited audience in an off-broadway theatre for industry professionals for five showings each -- agents, managers, casting directors, directors, alums -- it's also about building connections and networking. It is NOT just about talent. This is a business -- and you have to be business minded to succeed. If the casting directors/agents/directors don't know you exist -- how do you ever expect to get a job? Why would anyone in their right mind NOT want that exposure? It is a HUGE advantage for a young actor to move to NYC/LA with an agent, manager and several contacts -- as opposed to just showing up and trying to "bust in" with open calls and mailings - as Kristin Chenowith did when landing a job through an open call -- here's her story of her first job through a NY audition:</p>

<p>"I had just graduated from Oklahoma City University and was headed to the Academy of Vocal Arts in Philadelphia to become an opera singer. I decided to make a pit stop in New York. My best friend, Denny, wanted to move there to make it as an actor. I went along! I was at Actors’ Equity waiting to be seen for a show a Papermill. Because I wasn’t a member of the union I had to wait five hours to be seen! Finally I got in for my audition and ended up getting one of the leads in a musical called ANIMAL CRACKERS. I had an important life decision to make: Opera or Musical Theatre? Guess what I chose! Not only did I get my Equity Card through that job, I never had to wait five hours again!!"</p>

<p>As Kristin says, it is nearly impossible to be seen at open calls in NYC if you are not equity -- but as I'm guessing from the examples you've mentioned (42nd St, Oklahoma, Crazy for You, Seussical -- all recent NON-equity tours), the OCU students aren't getting into those equity calls right away. They are at the non-equity. Fortunately, with the help of our showcase, we get to skip those open calls and get seen through agent submissions - where it doesn't matter if you are equity or not. </p>

<p>Anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone here -- either you're faculty at OCU or a student -- and the plan is obviously working for you. I'm just trying to present the information at hand for the people out there who really don't know much about the advantages/disadvantages of a school that has a showcase. And I think it's pretty clear that a school with a showcase could be nothing but an advantage. Of course getting work without a showcase is possible -- hey - I've been working consistently out of school for years -- but it certainly isn't an advantage in any way not to have one. </p>

<p>And, when I mentioned the shows in my other post -- I was referring to recent grads that were performing in those -- as in those who have graduated in the last year. I know that Kristin and Kelli attended OCU, however not recently. To properly compare grads - I'd have to toss the likes of names of actors who have gone through CMU's doors (although some left early to work) such as Sutton Foster, Christian Borle, Rob Marshall, Tonya Pinkins, Ethan Hawke, Patrick Wilson, Emily Skinner, Megan Hilty (graduate of a year ago - now starring as Glinda in Broadway's Wicked), Michael McElroy, etc. etc. I think someone posted a partial list around here somewhere. </p>

<p>Anyway, best of luck for whatever you all choose to be the best choice for YOU -- as no school is a "one size fits all" variety!</p>

<p>birdboy782 -- Is the amount of experience you have the norm at CMU or are you more of an exeption? The reason I ask is that my school had somebody go there for acting last year (initials LB) and other than the two years of training she got at our school with like two full length plays and some scene presntations and other random stuff from her old h/s, she didnt have anywhere near that kind of resume. I know she never worked professionally. We have somebody else going there in MT this year (initials CS) and it is about the same story. What is more common?</p>

<p>Another thing ... Do you ever feel like all that training is going too much into overkill? What do you feel like you are getting from it that you would not get at some place slightly less intense? How many kids burn out from it? Also, don't you spend time crewing shows for the upperclassmen at night in the first two years? Another probly stupid question ... Do you miss having academic classes at all? I do agree that the showcase can't be anything but a positive. It def can't hurt!</p>

<p>Woah birdboy..let's calm it down. While you say you believe in everyone's opinion, I sense some real sarcaism from your post. Be careful what you are presenting as FACTS. They may be facts to you, but not to everyone.</p>

<p>Our school does offer a NYC senior showcase. We have for years. It has been helpful for some. But we do not see that as a big selling point as much as you do. If you are looking at a MT program just because it has a senior showcase, then you have some misplaced priorities. I'm glad your school has had success placing students with agents and such. So has our school. But you seem to think show cases are the only way to do this. That is simply not the case. If only those who participated in NYC college show cases were cast in professional productions, there would be a very, very small pool of talent. I see a personal visit of casting directors, agents and such to a school much more valuable to the student. </p>

<p>Showcases are fine as long as they are "icing" on the student's 4 year experience. But some schools make them a year long class. What this leads up to is a set up of high expectations. Some people get an agent. A lot don't and they are crushed. Our school makes it a regular part of our senior second semester class schedule but doesn't make it into the "big event" that some other schools do. Sure, you want your students to come of looking the best the can. But when you make it the carrot at the end of the 4 year stick, students see it as an all or nothing career breaker. I'd much rather have a relaxed event where there isn't the pressure to "make it" that night only. I have also heard of some rather "interesting policies" colleges have regarding show cases. For instance, some schools have the seniors audition to get into the show case. Only the quality ones are selected. My questions is: if all your graduating senior students are not quality enough to be presented (after apparently four years of hard work), what does that say about a school's program?</p>

<p>And I can understand the issue of getting quality people to come to these showcases. Like Dave Clemmons says above, my school has been told that senior showcases are becoming "too numerous" and key decision makers don't have the time or interest in coming to all of them. It seems there is more supply than demand. </p>

<p>In concluision, I have to disagree with birdboy. A senior showcase is a fine thing to have. But anyone who bases their educational decision simply on that fact is making a mistake with their training and career. I would rather invest the time to find out more about the faculty, staff, facilities and performance opportunities. It is these items, and not a show case, that will lead your child to a successful and productive career.</p>

<p>MusicSchool, you have said you don't want to say which school you represent but from your post above, I continue to infer you are from Oklahoma City University. It would help for you to just say so, so that others know who you are representing. There is no way to know if you are an administrator or not, or from which school, and kids are gonna take what you say as official since you said you are an music school administrator. I assume you are from OCU. I have all along but it appears now that you were defending that school (which I do understand) but it would be helpful if you claim to be an administrator, which makes readers take your posts as the "official word", if you could just verify it so we know.</p>

<p>Can someone clear up some confusion for me?</p>

<p>I keep hearing that Broadway wants belters. Having seen "all shook up" 2 weeks ago (not my idea), which seemed to me like 95% belt interspersed with a 5% real singing...this seems on target. </p>

<p>But you "hear" that in an audition the judges or whatever they're called want to hear a) songs from old musicals b) and a legit soprano something or whatever it's called. Not belting. </p>

<p>Which is true? or am I misunderstanding something?</p>

<p>Whoops, I think my question was answered over in the videotape thread.</p>

<p>Chris, while I did discuss this some in another thread....</p>

<p>First, songs from old musicals (like some schools require a pre 1960 song) can still be a belting song. In fact, the song my D used for schools that required an older song, was in fact, a song that had belting in it because she played to her strengths. She tried to show a softer sound and range in her ballad. It is best to show your strengths but also to show the range of what you can do. </p>

<p>They do not ask for "no belting". They want two contrasting songs...usually an upbeat and a ballad. Take that requirement and plug into it the strengths and skills you have....if one song you sing has a belt, try to make the other show more soprano, etc. </p>

<p>The only place where I have heard that Bdway or BFA programs wants belters is .....HERE on this forum! LOL! I once told my D that people here were saying that.....or saying if they could only belt, that would help with college auditions...and she thought just the opposite....that schools wanted to hear legit soprano, lol. A couple of her schools seemed to ask her for that....one made her sing such high scales that she felt only an opera singer would ever sing so high! She got in anyway, lol. </p>

<p>It seems to me that those who don't belt (or don't belt easily) think that Bdway only wants belters. And those who belt, seem to think they better be able to sing legit soprano! You can't win, lol. After each audition, she'd say they all seemed to want to hear soprano and made her do things to make sure she could do it so they seemed to care about soprano! Notice how kids who are strong in one area, perceive that programs want the other! The non belt kids here think the schools wanted belters and the belters like my D thought the schools seemed to really want to hear her soprano! Truly some schools did seem to want to hear soprano so I don't think it is all about the belt at all. But honestly, I think both BFA programs and Bdway are looking for both types. And most of all, it is even better if you can DO BOTH. </p>

<p>I think some people have a natural inclination with their voice in one direction and then have to work to develop the other. Like my D has always been a belter...kinda her forte. She has worked to develop a higher soprano sound. She did not have to learn how to belt though I am sure has learned about proper belting and how to transition to head voice, etc. through lessons. But the belt kinda came naturally. The soprano took more work. And vice versa is true of some kids I know who have a lovely legit soprano...they have had to learn also how to belt. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Please don't ask people to divulge more info than they are willing to give. I assume that MusicSchool is NOT from OCU - since I don't believe they have a showcase, and Music School's school does. While it is marvelous for DoctorJohn to share with us (and possibly has been a good recruiting tool for his school), if MusicSchool is not the head of the dept., as DoctorJohn is, they may not want any info they pass along here to come back and bite them! Appreciate the perspective they have to offer, without putting them on the spot.</p>

<p>As to the legit vs. belter debate - it's getting to the point where more and more people can do both. The knock on being solely a belter, without a "legit" voice (soprano or not), is that it can all be pure natural talent, but without the technique to back it up, can lead to vocal problems. May not ever happen, but a trained singer is probably less likely to unwittingly do damage to themselves.</p>

<p>Umm...sorry to burst your bubble Sooziet but Oklahoma City University doesn't have a senior showcase.</p>

<p>And enough people around here love to dish out information and advice. So what's the problem?</p>

<p>I believe it is customary on CC for college faculty and admissions types to confirm who they are with a moderator. The moderator then confirms their legitimacy on the forum to make sure the readers are getting good scoop though they do not have to disclose exactly which school they represent unless they so choose. After all, this is College Confidential. I've seen it done this way on several of the academic threads - often at the moderator's public request. In case anyone doesn't know, CollegeMom is the moderator of this forum and she is very nice. :) The poster in question seems legit to me, but it might be nice if he/she would contact her off-list and have her confirm his/her legitimacy to remove any doubt. Just a suggestion.</p>