<p>I know there's a flurry of acceptances right now, so this may be a bad time to start a new thread, but...I am very curious. What do people think about the schools that use grad students or TAs to teach the freshmen (or sometimes freshmen AND sophomores) voice? My D's voice teacher was adamant that she avoid schools that do that. Actually, I was surprised to learn that some of the top programs use grad students to teach. We had applied to several without realizing that this happened. They certainly don't advertise it!</p>
<p>I am not saying that all grad students are bad, or even that professors will always be better than grad students, but it seems that professors would TYPICALLY have more experience teaching voice. </p>
<p>I would be surprised to learn that too. I know schools often use them for gen Ed classes but would have never thought that a BFA track would use them. I certainly would not want that for my D</p>
<p>If I am not mistaken (someone please correct me if I am wrong), but I think grad students teach the private voice for freshmen in the UMichigan and NYU/Steinhardt programs.</p>
<p>WOW I did not realize this happened. I don’t want to start an issue on CC, but can you tell me which programs you know of that do this??? You can PM me if you don’t want to put it out there. Thanks!</p>
<p>I know UMich does it for freshman year. FSU does it for freshman and sophomore years. I had not heard about Steinhardt…maybe Christie2 can weigh in? And I had heard that one other “top” program does, but I have not independently corroborated that, so I don’t want to say it until I do…</p>
<p>Many of the grad schools who are teaching freshman or sophomore voice are not first year Master’s students. The majority are DMA students, Ph.d equivalent and many have been teaching or working professionally for years. The path is not necessarily BA, MA, DMA without any interruption.</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily think it is a bad thing depending on the level of the graduate students. For example… my mother is a voice teacher. She finished her MM degree at Eastman in 1972, spent the next 14 years performing as well as teaching both in her professional private studio and at the university level THEN went back to obtain her DMA. </p>
<p>I think asking the question of each of the schools you are deciding between is a good idea, but if the answer is that they study with DMA students I would not necessarily make it an automatic deal breaker. </p>
<p>There are people teaching voice professionally (some who are even contracted by programs as adjuncts) who have NO advanced degrees… or “only” an MM. The quality of the teacher is not necessarily dependent on the degree level obtained by the teacher.</p>
<p>Not sure about the scholastic level of the freshman voice teachers at NYU Steinhardt, and will ask my daughter tomorrow. I do know that students are placed with a teacher freshman year and have the option of staying with them for the duration of all 4 years or changing, as they wish. My daughter LOVES her teacher and is planning on staying as she feels she has made major progress. She only speaks highly of all the voice teachers her peers had as freshmen and this, their sophomore year.</p>
<p>Just talked with my daughter at Steinhardt . . . no, grad students do not teach any Vocal Performance /MT students voice. Many of the instructors ARE graduates of the Masters Degree program as they have a concentration in vocal pedagogy, but they are usually hired as voice teachers a number of years after graduating from that program, usually having spent time furthering their own practice, teaching skills, etc.</p>
<p>KatMT, I agree with you completely as far as expertise, but I would also consider the college’s commitment to its own teachers. Having been an adjunct professor earning very little with no benefits, I personally find the issue important. Grad students are free for the college. Meanwhile, each undergrad pays $40K+ in tuition. The college ‘saves’ by not having to pay for a tenure track or tenured professor for that particular class. I realize this has been going on for a while, but in the last 15 years or so this approach has accelerated, and has decimated the prospects of many aspiring academics. I am not saying the grad students are necessarily inferior at all (remember, I myself was an adjunct). But the overall approach is something I personally disagree with. I agree it should not be a make or break it issue (very few things are) but I personally think it should be a factor.</p>
<p>Putting voice lessons aside for the moment, keep in mind that at many colleges, teaching assistants are grad students and they are not solely responsible for the class. Rather, they tend to teach sections of the class…such as discussion groups, by breaking a larger class into smaller groups during the week, while the course is still taught by a professor. They may also grade papers and exams.</p>
<p>My older daughter, a graduate student, has been a TA at her school and so she does teach undergrads, but this is for a course taught by a professor. Likewise, two times as an undergrad, she also was a TA in two different subject areas, and was responsible for teaching sections of courses. </p>
<p>So, she did not take the place of tenured professors.</p>
<p>Also, she was not “free” to the college. She was paid for these teaching positions.</p>
<p>Grad students in Ph.D. programs are expected to teach–how else would they learn to teach? You wouldn’t want your son or daughter to be taught by a newly hired tenure-track professor who’d never designed a course or taught an elective, let alone TA’d a section. And yes, as Soozie says above, of course they are paid! This is all standard procedure at a large university, just as you would have residents (supervised by attending physicians) working on your medical care at a large teaching hospital. In our family, we do prefer the small LAC approach, and my kids have attended colleges where the primary programs were undergraduate, so this wasn’t an issue–and that’s how you avoid the situation if it bothers you. I know three current Ph.D. history students at our local university right now and all are very happily–and skillfully–teaching small elective courses.</p>
<p>Times3,
I just want to clarify that my daughter is not in a PhD program. She has been a TA while in her MS program. She also has been a TA teaching while in a BA program as a senior! All of these positions were paid. These were at Brown University and at UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>Thanks, Soozie–I remember reading references in the past to your older daughter’s field, but I was trying to make the point that grad students teach in all areas of academia. At the Ph.D. level, it’s an expectation (your daughter’s TA experiences aren’t rare, but not all undergrad or master’s programs provide that opportunity). I can’t imagine why voice would be different! Part of the mission of a university is to nurture their own profession by mentoring new teachers. And in my experience, younger teachers bring a different kind of energy and insight to the classroom, providing balance and infusing new ideas and techniques. It’s all good ;)</p>
<p>I agree with connections - yes, even if they are paid, the cost is minimal to the college. There are not benefits, tenure or anything. When it comes to voice lessons I would want someone who has seen/taught a lot of different types of students and who are capable of different styles. Even if the grad student becomes on of the greatest, most respected voice teachers of all time, the experience is generally just not there as a grad student.</p>
<p>At NU if a student is being taught by a grad student the undergraduate knows that and it is a decision he/she can make based on that knowledge. No grad students teach voice majors or MT students, btw.</p>