<p>I think alot depends on what purpose people see the undergraduate years serving. And this is not a commentary one way or the other. Some people see it (and need to see it) as a stepping stone to graduate school, which means they are in the “highest GPA” mindset. They will be competing against their peers for places in grad school and will minimize risk-taking in, say, Ancient Greek and Organic Chemistry (unless required). They will also want promote strictness in grading so their A is as hard to achieve as their competitor’s A was. </p>
<p>Other people want to go to college to try new things, test their abilities, experiment, stretch themselves, and if it can be done without a dark GPA shadow hanging over their heads, all the better. These people appreciate the chance to take classes pass/fail, receive support from professors and peer groups if they are struggling, and reduce the “fear factor” when taking classes such as computer science, per Hanna above.</p>
<p>For most kids, I would hope their undergraduate academic experience lies somewhere in the middle. The academic system, while providing safety nets, also needs to provide accountability. Every parent has a different definition of what “accountability” looks like. As for me, I’d rather err on the side of creativity and experimentation and give our kids the chance to keep the love of learning alive for a little while longer.</p>
<p>"“U of Scranton- “I’d rather go to U of Pittsburgh than here.””</p>
<p>Son actually did like U of Pittsburgh and applied and was accepted. He was surprised that he did like it because all the other schools he applied to are LAC.<br>
He applied to Pittsburgh, Elon, Allegheny, Quinnipiac and TCNJ and Boston C
After other acceptances are in he will weigh his options.</p>
<p>First, I didn’t mean to suggest mythmom’s children were slackers. Quite the opposite–they are to be commended for trying something outside their comfort zone.</p>
<p>I was trying to say that slackers would never end up in ancient greek or organic chemistry in the first place. And I think her childrens’ experience is supportive of my point–their schools took steps to avoid a failing grade. It is tough to get an F (or even a D) in the Ivy League. </p>
<p>I still think there are plenty of professors at Ivy League schools that will award a passing grade for minimal effort, and the kids know who they are. None of the kids (even the lazy ones) are stupid–and you’d have to be pretty stupid to end up in organic chemistry if you aren’t interested in working hard.</p>
<p>ncram65: Didn’t think you were suggesting anything negative. I have no argument with you. We just seem to parse the words slightly differently.</p>
<p>You’re right. It was a very soft landing – no GPA damage.</p>
<p>OTOH: They weren’t going to be grandfathered in with C’s, no matter what they did.</p>
<p>Perhaps, if they’d stuck with it they’d have ended up with D’s, but neither wanted to take that risk especially after talking with their mom.</p>
<p>We all dream of being things that don’t work out. I thought they should cut their losses early since they obviously did not have an aptitude for these courses and were making themselves really unhappy.</p>
<p>If a budding and committed pre-med had the same difficulty with orgo my advice would have been different. Get tutors. Do everything you can, because it may have just been the one course. Here it was an entire course of study that seemed a bad academic fit.</p>
<p>BTW: I was and am proud of them, and just as proud they found things they love and excel at. The “slacker” factor was not a factor in ultimate course selection either. They each found genuine loves that fit them even better than the first.</p>
<p>It’s exactly these kids who benefit the most from Brown’s S/NC policy. They take courses outside their comfort zone, but they take them S/NC and if they fail, they fail. It doesn’t go on their transcript. (Of course, if you make a habit of failing, you’ll have to stop out or leave permanently.) So, when you are in the situation in which it is entirely possible you will do worse than a C, you can stay in the course and keep trying.</p>
<p>And profs do not have the least bit of hesitancy about flunking kids when it isn’t going to go on the kid’s permanent record. I suspect it’s EASIER to fail a course at Brown than it is at most colleges of equal selectivity.</p>
<p>Our D had two big college visit trips. H got the trip to Boston and surrounding area. I’ll get his input and post about those schools at a later time. I got the trip through the Midwest. D decided right away that a few of the colleges were NOT for her. These are the responses I remember - it was six years ago.</p>
<p>Carleton and St. Olaf - No way! Everyone on campus looked like they had stepped out of an L. L. Bean catalog. I wonder what she thinks about my wardrobe. . .</p>
<p>Valparaiso - OMG! We can leave now. They don’t have flowers OR trees. We started to see a theme here. She wanted a bigger campus. Her high school campus was nicer.</p>
<p>Notre Dame - Loved it - but didn’t like South Bend and I didn’t blame her. </p>
<p>Wisconsin, Madison - Loved it. Liked the spread out campus, which surprised me. It remained one of her top two colleges until April 30th.</p>
<p>Michigan, Ann Arbor - Loved it. After acceptance we decided the out of state tuition was just too much - she could attend a private college for about the same amount.</p>
<p>Northwestern - Liked a lot. I’m not sure why it didn’t make the final list.</p>
<p>Macalaster - Too nerdy for her? She still doesn’t think of herself as nerdy, but she is a little nerdy.</p>
<p>Minnesota, Twin Cities - Liked a lot, but too close to home? (She’s in med school there now and is very happy to have me buy her groceries.)</p>
<p>Iowa Schools - wouldn’t even look at schools there.</p>
<p>Now going through the process with S, a totally different kid. He has had some of the same reactions she did. South Bend did not bother him, however, and Notre Dame is still near the top of his list.</p>
<p>Not a parent, but a friend of mine completely crossed Cornell off the list. She said all the students she saw there never made eye-contact and hurried by as if someone were going to kill them if they were late to class. None of them looked happy to be there at all, but more scared than anything.</p>
<p>^My daughter had the same reaction . . . the students seemed very tense to her, almost like they were intimidated. This is not a dig on Cornell, by the way. It’s a great school, but it just wasn’t for my daughter.</p>
<p>One school we visited was closed for their spring break. The only unlocked building was the admissions office. No one was working there, but we picked up a map and the college newspaper. We walked around the campus, until it started to snow and then made our way to the main dining hall. It was closed, so we walked to a coffee shop to warm up and look at the newspapers. </p>
<p>Front page article was about the rat problem in the dorms. The next article was about plans to build a wonderful new Bio building. The dean was interviewed about how terribly inadequate the existing labs were, and how difficult it was to attract good faculty because they couldn’t provide enough lab space. They were just beginning to raise money, and didn’t have a location yet for the building. We thought that there was no way the building could be finished until my dd had graduated!</p>
<p>So, no coffee for Mom on a cold day, rats in the dorms and lousy Bio facilities all contributed to it falling off the list. I think it’s a great school, though, and we could have had a completely different impression on a different day, with different headlines!</p>
<p>Daughter hated Swarthmore and Haverford instantly: too precious. Made it through half of the Skidmore tour before saying “No way”. Loved Penn and Cornell intensely. It has become clear to us that certain schools take tourguide training seriously and treat it as a job (which it is at many schools). At others, it’s strictly a volunteer activity and sometimes the students are ill-trained and inarticulate. The caliber of the tourguides sometimes seems to correlate with the academic caliber of the school.</p>
<p>Cornell is wonderful. Can have a small college feel or a big college feel. The campus isnt as big as it looks once you get to know it. Lots of beautiful paths to walk on to class. Cornell offers so much, there just isnt enough time to experience it all. Next visit, stop and ask the students if they love Cornell and you will hear many yes! Lots of school spirt as well. </p>
<p>Visited 30 some campuses during jr and sr year.Some good and some not so good. Will know which one is for you,it is really so important to visit.</p>
<p>SUNY Plattsburg-D didn’t like the the college isn’t clearly delineated from the neighborhood and found the architecture bleak
SUNY_Fredonia-liked it at first,but then was turned off by the massive amounts of students who were smoking
Muhlenberg-couldn’t explain it, but she was left cold
susquehanna-the most irrational reason of all- the gingko trees smelled horribly! (and also she saw a lot of girls dressed up…not her style!)
SUNY Geneseo-okay, this is also a stupid reason…she found the fact that there was a statue in the middle of Main St (right off the campus) to be freaky, thought the town looked like a stage set “too perfect”…what a stupid reason to reject the best SUNY college, but I can’t force her to apply!! (her other reason is that she thinks the school is full of type A personalities)</p>
<p>Liked so far: (we are in the beginning stages of the process, she is in the class of 2011)
Juniata…absolutely loved it
suny oneonta-loved it, I think it is too close to home (only about an hour away)
suny potsdam-loved the campus, but is worried it might be too cold.
suny new paltz-loved the campus and the town, only worry is that the dining hall is far from some of the dorms and is worried she might not eat regularly!</p>
<p>UNC Greensboro-Liked it a lot, urban but has it’s own place. Off list, no engineering school, don’t feel I would be challenged enough.
Elon- Hated it on sight. Too many polos and pearls. Too much grass. Nothing around it.
High Point-Gorgeous, amazing dorms. No engineering. Not applying.
Virginia Tech-Loved it, beautiful campus. Not much going on in Blacksburg. Can’t afford OOS. Probably not applying.
James Madison- Knew I hated it when I got there. Seemed boring. Not applying.
George Washington- loved it. Felt comfortable on campus. Saw a Wendy’s when I walked in and said I was going to go there :). Too expensive. Probably not applying.
American/UMdCP- Drove through campuses, refused to get out and even walk around. UMd too big, American too ugly.
Northeastern- Got lost, walked in through an alley with lots of dumpsters. Hated it immediately. Students sitting in front of me during info session alternated between falling asleep and laughing loudly. Not applying.
BU-liked it a lot, campus fit into the city well. Too expensive, too far from home, no engineering I’m interested in. Not applying.
NC State-hideous. applied because it’s instate.</p>
<p>No idea why I visited any of these schools, really. Most have no engineering or I knew I wouldn’t like them based on their location. Guess I was really just trying to get a feel for different types of schools. Though none of these schools were crossed off for too terribly dumb reasons, there are a couple schools I’m debating on just because I would look terrible in their colors :)</p>
<p>DS vetoed Georgetown without a coherent explanation. To this day I wonder if it was too beautiful, too conveniently located, or too highly ranked? We’ll never know.</p>
<p>My son LOVED University of Michigan. Ann Arbor was the best college town!!!. He wants to study engineering. He was totally unimpressed with Purdue, terrible tour guide and thought the summer camp he attended was very unorganized and not high level at all. He also visited U of IL, and U of Minn (good Chem Dept) . He was accepted OOS at U of MI and will attend there.</p>
<p>Did your child get any $$ OOS from Michigan?? My son got accepted and definately wants to attend for engineering. We are hoping for some merit $$$</p>