<p>So my mom works for Columbia, and tuition there or at Barnard would be free (except for room & board, etc costs). I don't have the grades to get into Columbia, but I could probably get into Barnard. The thing is, I really hated Barnard when I visited and I really don't want to go there. I have to apply to one of them ED, and I'm considering applying to Columbia so that I don't have to go to Barnard, and on the off chance that I do get in, I can get an ivy league education for free. I'm not sure which one to do.</p>
<p>Apply to Barnard and go there. Just lie to everyone that you go to Columbia, that’s what they do anyway.</p>
<p>“The thing is, I really hated Barnard when I visited and I really don’t want to go there.”</p>
<p>This is not a difficult decision and you know the answer.</p>
<p>Wow you are so lucky to have free tuition. I hate to see anyone go to a school they don’t love. </p>
<p>My niece went to Barnard and had a great time. She graduated with a degree from both colleges. She was recently married and had five friends from college in wedding. They were all amazing young women who equally enjoyed their undergraduate days.</p>
<p>Do you think you could get in RD to Barnard? If so, apply ED to Columbia. I would also apply to other colleges that have merit scholarships. Many of those application dates are coming up soon.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I would investigate other options, as lacrossemom said. Admission into Barnard is not a slam dunk, and they likely will be able to tell that you are less than enthusiastic about attendance there. They have plenty of applicants and are among the most selective liberal arts colleges out there.</p>
<p>A couple of things I just cannot ignore:</p>
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<p>This is absolutely untrue. There may be a few misguided and unhappy individuals who do this, but this is NOT the norm. </p>
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<p>And this is the kind of innocent mis-statement that leads to all the pulling-of-hair and gnashing-of-teeth. Your niece graduated with a degree from Barnard College of Columbia UNIVERSITY. Not “both colleges” (one would assume you mean Barnard and Columbia College). </p>
<p>Now, to the OP: Apply to Columbia if that is where you want to go. Columbia College and Barnard College are NOT the same experience, even though Barnard students and Columbia students do indeed take many of the same classes. If you did not like Barnard and don’t want to go there, find another option!
Best to you.</p>
<p>^^^ LOL, churchmusicmom! “Barnard College of Columbia University” doesn’t exist. It’s yet another misrepresentation. Barnard College pays Columbia University in the City Of New York a considerable sum money each year under contract for its students to take classes at Columbia and use its facilities.</p>
<p>OP should not apply ED to Barnard. However, a full ride, even at Barnard, is still a full ride. Apply RD at Barnard.</p>
<p>Barnard College of Columbia University is exactly what is written (in latin) on the diploma issued BY Columbia University to its graduates. The diploma has the Barnard seal as well as the University seal on it. </p>
<p>The relationship of Barnard and Columbia University is much more complex and reciprocal than your representation above. There is lots of info on this to be found if one looks beyond cliches. </p>
<p>here is a link to a photo (with the person’s name removed) of an actual Barnard diploma. I’d take one of my daughter’s but she (and her diploma) reside elsewhere. </p>
<p><a href=“http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2221/diplomawf5.jpg[/url]”>http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2221/diplomawf5.jpg</a></p>
![http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2221/diplomawf5.jpg[/url]](http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2221/diplomawf5.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
<p>Again, to the OP: if Barnard is not where you want to go for sure, be actively looking for a good fit for you!</p>
<p>To OP: apply to Columbia ED or RD. Your choice is obvious.</p>
<p>Try Columbia ED, if you don’t get it, apply to Barnard RD.
My situation is the opposite of yours, I loved Barnard (both academics and community), and Columbia (not as much), but I think I would like Barnard more and get in relatively easier, so I am applying there ED and Columbia RD.
BOTH really are dream schools, though. Even if YOU didnt like Barnard, it really is an incredible environment, even though it is adjacent to Columbia!!</p>
<p>Actually my niece had two graduations. One from Barnard and one from Columbia. As mentioned earlier, Barnard is a part of Columbia college. Since the OP’s mother works there, she can advise on how relevant the Columbia one is. In my mind, you are taking classes along with the Columbia students with the volume of classes based on your major.</p>
<p>Great advice from everyone. You need to now think through options and talk them through with your family to decide what is best for you.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Yes, lacrossemom, there are two ceremonies for each college at Columbia UNIVERSITY (sorry for the “screaming” all-caps—this distinction seems silly, but it is critical to some): one for the individual COLLEGES (Columbia College, SEAS, Barnard, General Studies, etc----Barack Obama spoke at Barnard’s ceremony this past year, but not at Columbia College’s—his own alma mater) and then also a University-wide ceremony at which the degrees are actually “granted” the students. </p>
<p>So, again: Barnard is NOT part of “Columbia COLLEGE”. It’s part of Columbia UNIVERSITY. Barnard and Columbia College students DO take many of the same classes, but the institutions are not “part of” each other. They both fall under the Columbia UNIVERSITY umbrella, along with SEAS and General Studies and Jewish Theological Seminary and others. </p>
<p>That is a point that some people really get hung up on as Columbia COLLEGE is very, very highly ranked in terms of prestige and selectivity. Barnard is also highly ranked, but it’s just a different animal (independent liberal arts college for women with its unique affiliation with Columbia UNIVERSITY). </p>
<p>I don’t want to turn this into another Barnard/Columbia debate. So hopefully this post does clear up some of the misunderstanding in the matter…</p>
<p>Churchmusicmom: You are mistaken about Barnard College . Firstly, Barnard does not award its own degrees. See <a href=“http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2221/diplomawf5.jpg[/url]”>http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2221/diplomawf5.jpg</a>
Instead, a degree is awarded to students of Barnard College by Columbia University or more precisely by “The Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York” (“Curatores Universitatis Columbiae in urbe Novo Erobaco Sitae” in Latin). The diploma clearly states that the president of the university and the president of Barnard College in addition affix our corporate seal to this diploma. The reason that there are two presidents signatures and two corporate seals affixed to the diploma is that degree was completed at Barnard College yet awarded by Columbia University. </p>
<p>If one looks at a Columbia College diploma you’ll see that there stands only the one corporate seal Columbia University and the signature of the President, Lee Bollinger, and the Dean of Columbia College, i.e. Judith Shapin in 2005. Columbia College is a part of Columbia University, obviously. See <a href=“HugeDomains.com”>HugeDomains.com;
<p>Teacher’s College (“TC”) and Barnard College are both affiliated with, but not a part of, Columbia University. However, TC and Barnard do not award their own degrees. (JTS and UTS award their own degrees.) A TC degree is also awarded with two corporate seals and two president’s signatures. Both Barnard and TC own their own buildings, have their own trustees, faculty and own endowments as they are not part of Columbia University. However, both institutions’ students receive a degree from a different institution from the one they attended. This is highly unusual and not well understood. </p>
<p>Secondly, Barnard repeatedly refused to become part of Columbia University in the 1960’s and 1970’s. Columbia University wanted such so that it could merge Barnard College into Columbia College as Harvard did with once independent Radcliffe College. As a result, Columbia College went coed belatedly in 1983. The Engineering School admitted women starting in the mid-1970’s. The relationship today between Barnard College and Columbia University is anything but reciprocal. There is very little that Barnard offers to any Columbia student. Barnard is not any “independent” LAC. It is a DEPENDENT Liberal Arts College! Further, Barnard students are not allowed to take any of the required Core courses at Columbia College. If Barnard College were really part of Columbia University, it would soon be part of Columbia’s history and no longer exist.</p>
<p>OP knows what her first choice is but also must assess her chances of admission.</p>
<p>This is not meant to be yet another round and round about the Barnard/Columbia University relationship. I am well aware of the nature of it and none of what I have posted is incorrect. Not sure why you feel led to argue here, but the nature of the Barnard/Columbia U. affiliation is unique and complex and of benefit to students on both sides of Broadway. And I never said Barnard “awards its own degrees”. Neither, by the way does any other College that takes part in the University-wide graduation every year. All of the Columbia University degrees are indeed granted by the Trustees of the University…Trust me, I sat through the ridiculously lengthy ceremony. :)</p>
<p>My point in posting about the Barnard/Columbia relationship was to clarify some points made above by Lacrossemom where she said “Barnard is a part of Columbia College”, which is obviously in error. I can understand, though, that unless you have a kid involved or have been a student on campus at Columbia, the semantics of it all get confusing (ie, when you say “Columbia” do you mean the all-encompasing UNIVERSITY or the very well-known and very selective COLLEGE by the same name?). It’s an innocent mistake, but one which leads to some people getting pretty defensive about the whole thing.</p>
<p>I’ve got you beat. I’ve sat through both ceremonies twice. The best part, by far, is Peter Awn presenting the candidates from General Studies. I any nontraditional students are reading this, go to Columbia.</p>
<p>As we say in the south, bless your heart, Mardad! :)</p>
<p>“There is very little that Barnard offers to any Columbia student.”</p>
<p>Well, money. Barnard doesn’t just mooch off the university; they pay exorbitant fees to the Trustees of Columbia for use of facilities. And, of course, Columbia students have access to Barnard professors, many of whom (depending on the department) are in the top of their field. Obviously, Columbia University isn’t dependent on Barnard—they have 3 undergrad colleges, 20 grad schools, and an $8 billion endowment—but it’s not as though they don’t derive any benefit from the inter-corporate agreement. I, for one, think my experience at Columbia would have been much worse had Barnard not existed.</p>
<p>^ Looks like Barnard pays Columbia 5 million a year. With ~2400 students, that’s ~$2000/student/year. If that’s all Barnard pays for their students to access the resources on Columbia campus and the general brand association, I would call it an incredible bargain rather than exorbitant. I’d be interested to know if Barnard also pays (on top of the $2000) when they place their students in Columbia classes.</p>
<p>horsham, it’s not a matter of Barnard placing students in Columbia classes. In fact, several of Columbia College’s majors are housed at Barnard–architecture and dance are two that come readily to mind. When Columbia students and Barnard students register for classes, it’s not readily apparent which campus said class is held upon or taught through. Barnard professors are required to meet the tenure requirements of Barnard as well as Columbia. These are just a few factors that make this far more complex than you appear to believe. </p>
<p>I have shared this before, but it bears repeating that a well known English prof at Columbia told my daughter that HE advises his students to take as many classes as they can at Barnard. In his words, the value to Columbia College’s students of enrolling in classes taught at Barnard is a “well-kept secret”.</p>