<p>sounds like she needs to get out more =P</p>
<p>?????? ........</p>
<p>Why's she leaving town on the weekends? Going home?</p>
<p>^that's not important to the thread or in general. the question originally posed has been answered, let the thread die</p>
<p>No, Columbia2002, I live on the west coast - she came home last year for winter break and again during the summer. She has friends who attend other east coast colleges and likes to visit them (Barnard, Amherst, etc.). </p>
<p>I think maybe you are the one who needs to "get out" more if you can't figure out what to do with the "rest of the day" at 10:15 am in Manhattan on a Friday.</p>
<p>I think Skraylor is right about this thread, but as a parent I think it is odd that laziness at college (late nights out, sleeping in, days without classes) is perceived as a virtue. We have far less expensive options for college in our home state if my d. wanted to party and take it easy.</p>
<p>Hey hey, Denzera was the one who (undoubtedly jokingly) said she needs to get out more. I seriously don't know what I'd do at 10:15am on a Friday in Manhattan. I'm not a morning person, for one. What's even open before 11am?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think Skraylor is right about this thread, but as a parent I think it is odd that laziness at college (late nights out, sleeping in, days without classes) is perceived as a virtue. We have far less expensive options for college in our home state if my d. wanted to party and take it easy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is an naive view in my opinion, as you seem to be misconstruing laziness and lack of care about academics with a desire to have fun, experience different things and have a balanced life.</p>
<p>How is wanting to arrange your class schedule in an efficient manner and to your preferences taking it easy? You're taking 5-6 classes. Why would you take them at 9am if you're not a morning person. Why not have a 4 day weekend if you can swing the "classes on Tues, Wed, Thurs" deal? </p>
<p>How's a late night out laziness? You're making friends, having good experiences, etc.</p>
<p>I never said I had a problem with that -- I basically mentioned that my d. had classes 5 days a week and a lot of people dumped on that, as if somehow its wrong for her to be willing to attend class on Fridays or to schedule things early in the morning. If you guys want to sleep in, fine. Just don't dump on the people who have a different outlook.</p>
<p>oh, i'm not dumping on her, just a little playful teasing. but when you say her priorities are:</p>
<ul>
<li>being able to get out of the city as early as possible on fridays, and</li>
<li>freeing up time so that she can work more hours at her job during the week</li>
</ul>
<p>...then I start to wonder if she's having as much fun as I think she should :) Columbia is a tremendously stressful place for those who don't balance in their unwinding, and you don't get maximum value out of it if you're not out meeting people and enjoying the benefits of being part of a community. Some people put too much emphasis on the "community" side and short-change the academics, no doubt - but the reverse is sometimes true as well. I don't know your daughter, of course, but that's advice i've given a lot of different people - myself most of all. It took me until senior year to realize that i'd really undervalued the community side of college.</p>
<p>So yeah, getting a later class schedule helps you keep up on sleep and lets you go out on thursdays. Sorry to get all serious on you.</p>
<p>Denzera, I think you are on the right track, there to advise students at Columbia to enjoy and appreciate the experience to its fullest while they have the chance and I know Calmom agrees. My d (who is of course a Barnard student), has always dreamed of the opportunity to have Fridays off but, alas, she is a dancer (they often have Friday classes) and is currently taking three science classes plus a lab :eek: and works at the CAO, so she is pretty busy all five days. And is already starting to bemoan the fact that she only has one more year there after this...</p>
<p>I do believe she has managed to enjoy herself quite nicely, thankyou! ;)</p>
<p>Denzera, I do not know what your financial situation is, but my daughter works because we are on financial aid & she does not get an allowance from home. Since she is not on a meal plan this year, this means that she not only has to pay for her text books and incidental expenses out of her own earnings, but also now has to pay for her own food. You may think that my d. doesn't have any fun --but that's not true at all -- part of the reason she works hard is to have extra money to afford to do things like buy tickets to performances by the major dance companies in NY, or occasionally eat out at a restaurant. If she ran short of money for textbooks or regular meals, I'd probably try to help her out ... but she know she can't get the money for the extra frills from home. </p>
<p>I think that what you perceive as "working too much" is what many people perceive as a normal state of affairs: if you want to have fun, you have to work to earn the money to pay for it. I mean... I couldn't simply decide I want to sleep in on Fridays or take off extra time for fun stuff -- I'm a single parent and I have to work to earn money to pay for my daughter's college tuition as well as for my own needs, and of course for a little bit of fun & entertainment as well. But I know, and my daughter knows, that work is part of the equation. </p>
<p>I don't know what your personal financial situation is, but I do know that what you describe as "playful teasing" is perceived as elitism by students who are dependent on their earned income, and who know they will be graduating with a significant amount of debt. You may think you are being friendly, but the student perceives it as your lording your financial status over them -- if my kids hear that sentiment expressed by classmates whose parents are sending them a check every month, they perceive it as either being clueless or being intended as an insult. My d's financial aid award includes an alloted amount of work study, but she has a hard time scheduling the hours to earn the total... so to her eyes that is money going down the drain. </p>
<p>Again, if my daughter wanted to go to college to play, she had far more affordable alternatives. This is something we discussed before she opted for Barnard -- it isn't a matter of parental pressure, I would have been happier as a parent if she were attending a UC campus closer to home -- so I asked, "are you sure you want to have to work that hard in college?" My d. is a very outgoing person who loves to socialize with others, but she is also very ambitious -- she has some rather lofty goals both in terms of her education and future career aspirations. For social life, she would have preferred NYU .... but she figured out that attending Barnard, she could have both an excellent education and enjoy time hanging out with friends in the Village. </p>
<p>So my point is that before you assume that students who seem to work hard are not having any fun -- keep in mind that for many, attending a college like Columbia (or Barnard) is a tremendous privilege and opportunity that they are willing to work hard for. These students do have balance in their life, but their "balance" is different than yours. They do not see their 4 years of college as an extended vacation before their adult lives begin; rather they see themselves as young adults who are responsible for the foundation and direction of their own lives. With that view in mind, it would be a tremendous waste to miss out on some aspect of their education because they want an extra day off.</p>
<p>"I don't know what your personal financial situation is, but I do know that what you describe as "playful teasing" is perceived as elitism by students who are dependent on their earned income, and who know they will be graduating with a significant amount of debt. You may think you are being friendly, but the student perceives it as your lording your financial status over them -- if my kids hear that sentiment expressed by classmates whose parents are sending them a check every month, they perceive it as either being clueless or being intended as an insult."</p>
<p>The correct answer, in virtually every circumstance , is "clueless", and NOT, "lording your financial status over them".</p>
<p>Given that, one ought not get too upset at the perpetrator, IMO. Either in the college, or on this board.</p>
<p>I've been guilty of this same thing. Years ago some friends invited us to a get-together with their other best friends. We were talking about schools in Manhatan, and I repeatedly extolled the virtues of the private school my kids were attending. Eventually, the wife shot me an icy retort(with accompanying glare) " Yes, we've heard that's a great school. BUT WE CAN'T AFFORD IT !!". It was so obvious after she said it. I was hardly trying to "rub something in", it just never occurred to me. Lounging as I was in our own little rarified world (at the time). Otherwise I would never have harped on it.</p>
<p>This woman has held this against me forever, as if I had deliberately insulted them,and as a result our friends will never invite us to anything where they've invited this other couple. And I really meant nothing by it. I was just trying to help, by suggesting a great school. Just a sincere case of "clueless".</p>
<p>It costs a ton of money to attend these private colleges, and lots of families who can at least sort of afford it may be less sensitive to the financial issues of others simply because it is beyond their own life experience. Forgive them.</p>
<p>Further discussion of this may be better served in the Parent's Cafe or something; I'm sure they don't want it here.</p>
<p>Hi everyone.</p>
<p>This is just to say (If you don't recognize this, it's at the beginning of a William Carlos Williams poem; he ate his wife's plums because she was silly enough to leave them in the refrigerator) that there are many ways to benefit from the same circumstances. </p>
<p>Calmom: My D works at the Provost's Office, as you know, and she thinks it is one of the best things about her Barnard experience. Learning to fund her own NYC life gives her the confidence to face the future. (See happy face.)</p>
<p>churchmusicmom: One of the things she doesn't have time for is her dance (see sad face) because of her work, or because she doesn't want to put the work involved in. I don't know. But we're happy for your D.</p>
<p>The experience of Barnard/Columbia/NYC is so rich that no one student can exhaust it. Working, studying, and yes even playing, all okay and all up to individual.</p>
<p>Personally I'm awed by the activities of both Calmon's daughter and churchmusic's D</p>
<p>and yes, I think a lot of you, too Denzera. </p>
<p>monydad: I've been there many times. Not necessarily about money, but the chance remark, or series of remarks, that hit a sensitive spot and can never be forgotten.</p>
<p>Said once to a stay-at-home mom that I couldn't imagine not having my job. That was it! And I only meant me (and back to the original idea, I had to work; her husband was due to come into oodles of money, which they did.) I still love my job.</p>
<p>Monydad -- I certainly don't want to start a prolonged discussion of this point on this thread. It's just that the only way to address "clueless" is to be explicit about cluing the person in -- that's why I used the phrase "is perceived as" in my posts. </p>
<p>I'm not trying to accuse anyone -- just trying to convey what it feels like to be on the receiving end of being criticized for "working too hard" when work is a necessary part of the equation to have the money to afford the fun stuff as well as the basics, especially in NY which is full of great clubs & restaurants & performing arts.</p>
<p>Calmom, you really do need to lighten up. He was not accusing your daughter of anything. As Denzera himself said, it was just a little playful teasing. Why can't you accept that? When it comes to any Columbia/Barnard discussion, you seem to take everything so personally. You weren't dumped on and I don't think anybody else saw it the way you did.</p>
<p>Calmom -- I think you've just provided a valuable educational experience. Some people have to work, not because they're grinds, but because they have to work. Those who realize what a privilege it is to be at either Barnard or Columbia are those who also often get the most out of it. I applaud your daughter who seems to be getting everything she can out of every minute of her college life.</p>
<p>As to the Columbia vs Barnard question -- My S obviously didn't have that option:) But I can see some aspects of Barnard that I would find particularly attractive, including better advising, a smaller feel, school spirit, and some feminine bonding. Before people start to snicker over that last point, I do think there are some classes in which it is helpful to have a majority of Barnard students and a female prof. The recent article about the number of women writers who've emerged from Barnard is a case in point.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I've also heard that the most unhappy students at Barnard are the ones who really wanted to be at Columbia. Like most aspects of choosing a college experience, it really depends on what the student wants to get out of it.</p>
<p>Yes, Sac, my son also would have loved a school with greater opportunity for "feminine bonding." ;) My D., on the other hand, told me during the college app process that she would be happy to live in single-sex dorm, as long as it was an all-male dorm. :eek: She even had plans in place last year to move off campus to share an apartment with 2 guys until I nixed the idea by pointing out that Barnard's financial aid would not cover off-campus living. </p>
<p>Which goes back to my original point... the "all women" thing really isn't that significant given the location. Barnard probably does provide some of the perceived benefits of an all-female educational environment, but without the limitations given the options open to the students. My d. wanted Barnard for all the other reasons you list -- she would not have wanted Columbia's core & she is toying with the idea of a dance minor.</p>
<p>Work study jobs really an inefficient use of your time. They only way they're beneficial is if you have one of them where you can do your homework the whole time. Do these jobs even pay $10 now? I think they were $7 when I was there.</p>
<p>With a little bit of effort, most Columbia students should be able to make money in a way that is more interesting and/or better paying than a work study job. Some things that comes to mind are tutoring, editing / proofreading, computers, bartending, or participating in psychology studies. (There's also a ton of money to be made for Ivy leaguers who want to sell their sperm or eggs, but that's a different story.)</p>
<p>Additionally, the $2,000 that one makes in a year of work study isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. A summer job will pay you well more than that.</p>
<p>You are right - the work study pay is dismal, maybe around $7 or $8 hourly. My daughter also does do bartending and that pays a lot better, but that work is much more likely to intrude on potential free time (jobs typically are on evenings & weekends) -- and she does not like the work (hours spent on her feet, often treated disrespectfully by customers). On the other hand, she really loves her work-study job --so more hours doing something she loves would be nice, even though the pay is low. I think she probably can get studying done on the job, too, especially if she can get enough hours to keep on top of any specific tasks assigned to her. </p>
<p>My d. also earned from summer employment as well -- in fact she made more than anticipated this past summer - but the point is that she is paying for ongoing expenses - and some fun stuff in NY as well --and her text books, and her food -- and a summer job isn't enough to cover all that. She had to pay for rent & food out of her summer earnings as well - its not like she could pocket all of her earnings. </p>
<p>As to some of your other suggestions-- a male Ivy Leaguer can probably have a profitable and, er, enjoyable experience donating sperm, but the process of being an egg donor is not so easy. See <a href="http://www.health.state.ny.us/community/reproductive_health/infertility/eggdonor.htm#everyday%5B/url%5D">http://www.health.state.ny.us/community/reproductive_health/infertility/eggdonor.htm#everyday</a>
I can easily think of about 99 reasons why my d. wouldn't want to do that.</p>
<p>The point is -- you really can't pass judgment on someone because of their choices when it comes to work. Many of the alternatives you suggested for work do not represent a steady, reliable income -- I mean, I used to volunteer for psych experiments when I was in college, but that was occasional stuff, $20 here and there. A steady job, with guaranteed hours, provides a better economic cushion. </p>
<p>Again -- my d. does want to do some fun, expensive stuff -- such as funding travel as well as entertainment in NYC. For her, the key to doing that is working. She could probably work less and live a more spartan existence .. but that's not her choice. Which is why I found the comment about needing to get out more kind of puzzling.... in NYC, its the "going out" that tends to burn through the money, not the staying in.</p>
<p>As long as we are on the topic of work study jobs/pay, just an FYI:</p>
<p>My d is in her junior year and the pay for both of her on-campus jobs (one in the chemistry dept and one in the CAO) has risen to $10 per hour.</p>
<p>My S is in his senior year, and passed up workstudy for poker (at which he's "earning" a hundred or more a week.) :eek:</p>