<p>I really don't understand why you guys want to portray yourself as so judgemental and arrogant. I thought you were addressing incoming students and high schoolers reading this. I was accepted at Columbia for my PhD and your attitude would not encourage me to want to be on campus, though it's not reflective of graduate students.</p>
<p>Perhaps you don't understand that there's a lack of flexibility and a whiff of nastiness in your posts.</p>
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I thought you were addressing incoming students and high schoolers reading this.
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<p>And I'd urge them to eschew a low-paying dead-end work study job for the reasons I've stated.</p>
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I believe work-study employers pay 1/2 the salary and the feds pay the other 1/2 (that's the way it was when I was in college)
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<p>It's 60-40 with the government picking up the bigger portion. </p>
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Shraf, you weren't speaking in general in your post #53, your statement "making $7 an hour as a junior is definitely short changing yourself no matter how much you think she is supposedly "enjoying" the job." You were either directing the "supposedly 'enjoying'" comment at me or one of the other parents, although none of us said our daughter's had $7/hour jobs. (I said didn't know; another parent said their kid got $10).
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<p>so if none of that applied to you why would u take offense or are you just always under the assumption that everyone is out to get you</p>
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And I'd urge them to eschew a low-paying dead-end work study job for the reasons I've stated.
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<p>and if you had read the previous posts you'd know that my advice was to get a work study job but just aim for the 10-12/hr range. It shouldn't be shocking that there are differences of opinion but incoming/current students should get all sides of an argument and decide for themselves. </p>
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I really don't understand why you guys want to portray yourself as so judgemental and arrogant. I thought you were addressing incoming students and high schoolers reading this.
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<p>How were any of us judgemental and/or arrogant? We are pretty much here to tell stories and if someone relays an experience that we feel needs commenting on then we comment....I mean if you approach this with the attitude you are approaching it with then I can see how you might come to such erroneous conclusions. </p>
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I was accepted at Columbia for my PhD and your attitude would not encourage me to want to be on campus, though it's not reflective of graduate students.
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<p>really? our attitude on this website would be a prime factor in choosing where you want to get your PhD which would shape the rest of your career!? really? hmmmm</p>
<p>Oh and here's the good part....i'm a grad student LOL</p>
<p>These Columbia vs Barnard "discussions" have continually shown to bring out the worst on both sides which doesn't fare well for either college. </p>
<p>Someone should take the high road and put an end to these ridiculous debates.</p>
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These Columbia vs Barnard "discussions" have continually shown to bring out the worst on both sides which doesn't fare well for either college.
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<p>I find the work study debate pretty interesting (it hasn't been done before since I've been on this board) and potentially very helpful to incoming students. It's got nothing to do w/ Barnard vs. Columbia, but somehow a couple people have tried to turn it into that.</p>
<p>"It's got nothing to do w/ Barnard vs. Columbia, but somehow a couple people have tried to turn it into that."</p>
<p>Agree.</p>
<p>acinva: I take your point about not prolonging the thread, and I don't want to revert to tiresome topic, but my posts were not meant as ammo for Columbia vs Barnard. My point was only that others' feelings should be respected, not taking into consideration whatever schools they attend. If someone likes their work/study job it is not someone's watch to dis that; if someone resents working for $10.00 he is certainly entitled to that feeling too, and my heartiest best wishes (not meant in sarcasm, the darn internet) that he should be able to find a more lucrative job.</p>
<p>No anti-Columbia pro Barnard feeling at all, and I am sorry to be perceived that way. Paraphrasing Edmund Burke, "Chauvinism is the last refuge of scoundrals."</p>
<p>Columbia2002, your theory about market forces makes no sense at all. When I was practicing law, I was able to employ work-study students from a local law school. I was glad to have the law student for less per hour than I had to pay the receptionist, but that didn't mean that the law student got consigned to menial labor. On the contrary, I assigned the law students to do legal research and briefing, and took them to court to assist me during trials. The fact that the pay was subsidized was simply a financial benefit that had nothing to do with the task assigned. </p>
<p>If a work study student has special skills or talents that are useful to their employer, then it is likely they will be assigned tasks making use of their talents. I always advised my kids when they started a new job that if felt bored, to keep their eyes out for tasks that needed to be done and to take initiative and volunteer to take on extra responsibility, or share their ideas for new projects and tasks. That's how people work their way up the career ladder, and it doesn't matter what the position they start with was or the rate of pay -- the employee who has those qualities will end up being trusted to take on more, simply because of their demonstrated willingness and abilities. </p>
<p>That is simply the way all employment works. </p>
<p>My guess is that the reason we moms have daughters who enjoy their work is that our daughters have been proactive in letting their employers know what sort of responsibilities they are ready to take on. I'll bet my d. has suggested and initiated new projects --its the kind of thing she would do. </p>
<p>I suppose if you decide that your job is menial and meaningless, and have the attitude that you don't want to put much effort in because you don't like the pay.... you would probably end up with exactly what you have decided you are going to have. Employers seldom give out more responsibility without the employee first demonstrating their enthusiasm and willingness to put in extra effort.</p>
<p>Monydad--was away and just saw your question. If you're asking if S has any workstudy/internship openings in general, then the answer is no, he never looked into WS because he found more lucrative opportunities elsewhere.</p>
<p>If you meant, which I think you may have as I read it again, does he have any WS/internship openings to offer in poker as a source of money, then, why yes, absolutely, he's always looking for new, um, earnest young folks who'd like to learn how to play.....:) (those with trust funds most welcome....;)).</p>
<p>I meant internship like in "learn-how-to-make-scads of-$$-playing-poker" not "pigeon-in-training". No budget for that.</p>
<p>Sorry I'm technologically challenged and don't know how to make those smiley-face thingies. there are some other forums where they give you prompts to put those things in, but here you actually have to know how yourself.</p>
<p>"...but my posts were not meant as ammo for Columbia vs Barnard"</p>
<p>I agree, despite the thread name the vast preponderance of this discussion has nothing to do with that. Financially robust, vs. not so much, yes. Various part-time jobs vs. other ones, yes. Columbia vs. Barnard, no. Thank goodness. So let's not veer it into something it's, thankfully, not.</p>
<p>As for Friday, D2 had to choose between a Friday dance class and some review session or something like that for another class or classes. So evidently there are some things going on, though perhaps not regular class meetings. She has taken a job on campus that she actually had to be qualified for, and seems to offer more than the mind-numbing duties others have described (and D1 has done at her college). She's actually psyched about her job. But compensation is in line with what has been discussed here.</p>
<p>We'll see how it all pans out.</p>
<p>The possiblity of part-time jobs away from the college is a potential advantage of a city location. D1 doesn't have that at her college, which is far more isolated than these two.</p>
<p>I knew what you meant, MD! I answered as I knew S would, had he been asked.</p>
<p>His internship was watching tons of poker shows, playing online in free tournaments, and, especially, reading books and books of poker theory. Then he applied it when he got to CU, and found he was pretty good at it, especially when playing people who had a lot more money than him, and didn't mind losing it.</p>
<p>Personally, gambling makes me twitch, but this is an example of how they become who they are, not who you imagine they'll be.</p>
<p>Wow, Garland! I didn't know that there were internships quite like that one.</p>
<p>Just wow!</p>
<p>Cool!</p>
<p>LOL, CMM. I shoulda put quotation marks around "internship" so know one thinks it was a real one!</p>
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My guess is that the reason we moms have daughters who enjoy their work is that our daughters have been proactive in letting their employers know what sort of responsibilities they are ready to take on. I'll bet my d. has suggested and initiated new projects --its the kind of thing she would do.
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<p>As I said earlier, some of the people on here WANT this work-study discussion to be about Columbia vs. Barnard. The Barnard moms' posts on this topic seem to be making this into some sort of feminist empowerment issue.</p>
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Columbia2002, your theory about market forces makes no sense at all. When I was practicing law, I was able to employ work-study students from a local law school. I was glad to have the law student for less per hour than I had to pay the receptionist, but that didn't mean that the law student got consigned to menial labor. On the contrary, I assigned the law students to do legal research and briefing, and took them to court to assist me during trials. The fact that the pay was subsidized was simply a financial benefit that had nothing to do with the task assigned.
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<p>The efficient market theory isn't "[my] theory." People way better at economics than I ever will be came up with it. It's a theory (and a pretty damn good one at that); it doesn't explain exactly why every laborer makes what s/he makes. Obviously, there are "inefficiencies," i.e., situations where laborers make more or less than their economic worth to their employer. That doesn't mean it makes "no sense at all."</p>
<p>As for your law firm counterexample, perhaps that actually is an efficient marketplace. I'm just presenting a theory here, so please don't take this the wrong way. It may very well be that these law students were working for work-study wages because they weren't qualified/credentialed enough to garner a lucrative law firm gig. I.e., a law student who is qualified/credentialed enough to score such a gig has a high market value high such that a firm would be willing to pay him that much. On the other hand, a law student who doesn't have such qualifications/credentials may really only be worth a work-study wage.</p>
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The efficient market theory isn't "[my] theory." People way better at economics than I ever will be came up with it. It's a theory (and a pretty damn good one at that)
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<p>Hehehe, I had a good laugh when I read this one.</p>
<p>So I was watching CNBC today during which there was a three way discussion on the state of the economy and the stock market. One of the guys asserted that the efficient market theory is perhaps the worst theory ever conceived in any field (He was exaggerating a little :) ). He brought up one of the theory's many flaws to debunk a bullish interviewee's claim: The stock market is often times irrational and will be very strong despite inclinations of a slowing economy in what has been a bull market, and very bearish despite an improving economy in what has bean a bear market.</p>
<p>Anyways, I digress. :)</p>
<p>I'm not a believer in the ECMH when it comes to publicly-traded securities. For one, there's a huge disparity between insiders and outsiders. And going even further, there's a major informational gap between management's knowledge of a company's "worth" and what statements filed with the SEC suggest about the company's "worth."</p>
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As I said earlier, some of the people on here WANT this work-study discussion to be about Columbia vs. Barnard. The Barnard moms' posts on this topic seem to be making this into some sort of feminist empowerment issue.
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<p>A couple of things:</p>
<p>1.The title of the thread was about Columbia/Barnard, though in the case of this work-study discussion, I don't really think it makes a difference which school you attend. You either like your job or you do not.</p>
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<li><p>I am a "Barnard mom", but I certainly did not intend any of my comments to make any "feminist empowerment" points...did I do that??</p></li>
<li><p>I think there is valuable info on this thread for potential Columbia U. students regarding their options for earning money either through work-study or various other jobs. No need for anyone to get snarky.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Okay, so there were three (not very well-developed...I am TIRED!) points. Sorry...</p>
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The Barnard moms' posts on this topic seem to be making this into some sort of feminist empowerment issue.
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No, my son also had a really low paying job last year (half-time Americorps) that he enjoyed & where he had all sorts of responsibility, very clearly because he was volunteering & taking on new tasks & projects all the time. It just happens that all the people who had posted on this board saying that their kids liked their work-study jobs happened to be moms talking about their daughters. </p>
<p>The observation stands: employees who come in with a positive attitude, do their assigned tasks efficiently, take initiative, volunteer to take over additional tasks, and suggest new projects tend to get the interesting jobs they are seeking. </p>
<p>On the other hand, people who tend to find fault with everything around them and be overly critical or complaining tend to also alienate those around them, particularly their employers, as managers & supervisors tend not to have much patience for that sort of attitude among their subordinates. So I can certainly see why there can be a very vast difference between the experiences of two students who have similar jobs.</p>
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The observation stands: employees who come in with a positive attitude, do their assigned tasks efficiently, take initiative, volunteer to take over additional tasks, and suggest new projects tend to get the interesting jobs they are seeking.
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<p>But this sort of go-getter person can undoubtedly find a higher-paying and more intellectually fulfilling job than a clerical $7/hr work-study job.</p>
<p>The "clerical" $10 hour work-study job can involve much more responsibility and help the student make strong connections with profs or get good experience depending on their area of interest. [Note: It's long since been established that $7/hour pay rate is a thing of the past; at this point the only hard figure we have is from the mom who said Barnard pay rate for her d. went up to $10 this year] In terms of job responsibility, an example would be the mom whose daughter works in the Provosts office mentioned the d. sitting in on various meetings with interesting people. Sometimes there are all sorts of job perks depending on who the student works for. . It is flexible as to time and located on campus. Most off-campus jobs in the immediate area (Morningside Heights) would probably be retail or food service, which my own daughter hates. Jobs located in parts of Manhattan where more interesting/appealing work may be possible also involve a commute of probably at last 20 minutes each way by subway for midtown, around 40 minutes for downtown. No one is going to get a job with much responsibility with hours like 3-5 pm on Tuesday, 11 am - noon on Wednesday, and with the commute time figured in that cuts down on the hours the student can commit to. In fact, unless the job is in late afternoons & evenings, I don't see how a student gets much in during the week unless they have a full day clear of classes. I suppose if they have Fridays off they can work all that day... but then that kind of undermines the day-off, have fun rationale of the Friday day off you guys wanted, right? </p>
<p>A job like tutoring may pay better, and for some students it may be very interesting and rewarding -- but its unlikely to have as much of a long term payoff in terms of connections as job that puts a student in more direct contact with faculty.</p>
<p>Anyway, attitude is everything and from the tenor of your posts here I can see why you personally may have had a negative experience with "clerical" positions. In an office setting a person is generally exposed to a lot of opportunity for greater responsibility if they want it.</p>