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Doesn’t that rule out MANY top schools? Or are you and your parents not interested?
(Harvard College: 6,500; Yale: 5,380; MIT: 4,500; CalTech: 997; Princeton: 5,200; Amherst: 1,785)</p>
<p>The only thing we asked our S to do was to apply to at least one of our state schools that was a reach in case he only got into his safety and match schools. I guess we were thinking we could make the case that if he was accepted to the state school it was the best choice both academically and financially. He was accepted but also was accepted at his other reach school so we never had to make the case. </p>
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I get that, but it’s still an arbitrary number. Presumably, you know how much money you have, and how many kids you have coming up behind. I’m just suggesting that people should think about how much money they want to spend.
Well, not exactly. Although people often refer to highly selective schools as “lottery schools,” they really don’t work like a lottery. Many, many people are admitted to some, but not others–and it’s not always the less selective ones that admit them. All these schools are looking for somewhat different student bodies each year–so, if you have the stats and ECs to make you a sensible candidate for very selective schools, you increase your chances of getting into one of them by applying to more of them. You may be rejected from Brown because they already admitted somebody like you ED, but get admitted to Harvard or Princeton. It happens all the time. To put this another way, the fact that Harvard admits 8% of its applicants doesn’t mean that YOU have an 8% chance of being admitted. It may be much, much lower, or significantly higher, based on characteristics you have–and they may matter more at Harvard than at other schools.</p>
<p>It just so happened that the amount we determined we could spend per child was slightly higher than the amount for our state flagship. Given that our state flagship is UNC-CH, and D had a very strong likelihood of acceptance, it seemed reasonable to state that we were not going to go into huge amounts of debt when she had a choice like UNC. If we lived in a state with weak state schools, that never would have come up as a benchmark.</p>
<p>D wanted to be in the NorthEast, and at a LAC. Not cheap. But she was able to earn merit scholarships to get in range of the amount we could afford. People in NC don’t understand that there is money available at private schools, so it’s a great reference point when someone asks how we can spend a fortune on an out of state private college to be able to say it’s cheaper than Chapel Hill.</p>
<p>All these schools are looking for somewhat different student bodies each year–so, if you have the stats and ECs to make you a sensible candidate for very selective schools, you increase your chances of getting into one of them by applying to more of them. No, I don’t agree. You up your chances by knowing what those individual schools truly seek, not just their reps. Holistic at a most-competitive goes well beyond stats and too many top performing kids already assume their hs academic and social standing makes them some sort of special category. Look at Brown’s figures on the number of vals and top scorers not admitted. </p>
<p>Our only real guideline was that no college is a dream school if the right aid didn’t come through. (Ok, I didn’t want it to be too complex to get to or get home from.) D1’s “requirements” were clear: had to have a solid commitment to her major. It had to have a good party scene (yup.) She wanted intellectual competition from peers, didn’t want to walk in as one of the biggest fish. And she did want a strong sense of community engagement. Fortunately, she and I both had an Aha! moment at the school that became her clear first choice, the last one, late in the game. Things worked out exactly as she planned. </p>
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<p>I add the only thing for any candidate to do that makes any sense is to create an application, to the best of his ability, which increases his likelihood of acceptance. And part of that increased likelihood is making sure test scores are over the 50% averages for ANY data the colleges publicly report; the colleges do not want those reported averages to drop. Not too sure why people find that so hard to understand and make the college thing more complicated than that. After test scores, then make sure the ECs etc. are excellent.</p>
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The idea of knowing what individual schools seek is good, but it only goes so far. Unless you have some special hook, there is not that much knowable by you that differentiates what Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth, Williams, Amherst, and many more, are seeking. They are all seeking very strong students with interesting ECs and achievements. What you can’t know is that the admissions committee at Williams might be impressed by your achievements in ballet, but Dartmouth, not so much–for no particular reason.</p>
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<p>It might depend on the size of the state and, more importantly, if the parents were willing to forego the in-state public universities in terms of cost. There have been some unfortunate stories here of students saying that their parents wanted to force them to go to more expensive colleges but wanted the students to take loans for the additional costs of the more expensive colleges.</p>
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<p>I was wondering that, too. My daughter’s “sweet spot” in terms of undergrad size is 4,000-8,000. Most of the schools she likes in that range are considered “mid-sized” rather than small.</p>
<p>My parents didn’t want me to apply to “lower” level private schools, so Fordham, Tulane, and Lehigh were out. They also didn’t allow me to apply to Georgetown because it’s predominately Catholic. No Michigan, UVA, UNC, UCLA, or Cal (even though my mom is an alumna) because they didn’t want to pay full freight for an OOS public. Also no Harvard or Princeton because they thought I wouldn’t get in and didn’t want to waste the money. </p>
<p>They also probably wouldn’t have let me go to Columbia (even after I was accepted), because they don’t like the teaching quality (my mom taught a workshop with Columbia instructors).</p>
<p>Ultimately, both of my parents are highly educated, and I think they just wanted me to get the best education possible – but weren’t willing to pay private school price for a public school education. </p>
<p>I probably have the most regret that I didn’t push harder to apply to Lehigh, Georgetown, UVA and UNC. Those were all schools I think would’ve been good fits. Still, I think I’m ultimately happy with where I’m going.</p>
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<p>Perhaps the parents had previously been saving and arranging their household finances with the cost of state university in mind, so it would not be too surprising if the distribution of parental price limits had a higher density near the costs of their state universities.</p>
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<p>You and your parents did not realize that UVA and UNC do give good financial aid to out-of-state students?</p>
<p>@giterdone
“Applying to more than 1 highly selective schools on the premise that; your odds increase if you apply to more? is like buying more lottery tickets for drawings on different dates, on the premise that your odds to win get better. It is not a cumulative affect. each application is its own ticket. If you apply to 2 schools with 8% acceptance rates? your odds are not 16%?! :)) you simply have 2 separate 8% chances.”</p>
<p>I don’t really agree with you on this. Even if a college has an 8% acceptance rate, each individual student does not have an 8% chance. Some have a 0% chance, someone else’s chances may be closer to 100% . The thing is, you really don’t have a clue what your individual chances are. If you plow through acceptance threads year after year you will see plenty of students that apply to maybe a dozen of the tippy top schools. Some get into none, some get into most, and more often a “qualified” student gets into a few. Why do they get into some, and not the others? Maybe it isn’t a lottery, but it is not an exact science either. Certainly if a kid has the stats to be a legitimate applicant to top schools, more applications will increase the odds of coming across adcoms that will see that intangible “something” they are looking for. It is not unheard of to get accepted at Harvard and rejected by Cornell or accepted at Yale and waitlisted by Penn. Like the NY Lottery saws…“hey, you never know.”</p>
<p>Hunt, I could start a list of the difference in what various top 20 schools seek. Kids need to develop a feel for those differences, not go generic based on stats and their high school standing. I still believe a hard look at the school web sites is an effective start- what do they say, what self-image do they actually promote, what sorts of kids do they tout, plus all the what they actually offer, the programs, unique opportunities. Too many kids come up with zip, when asked Why Us? </p>
<p>All that is no guarantee, there are other factors beyond a kid’s control (geo, how majors are currently filled, whether they need that bassoonist.) But it can sure up your chance. In contrast, too many kids rest on their high school laurels. And think their own “wants” are the icing.</p>
<p>My mom won’t allow me to apply to her alma mater, oddly enough. Conversely, my dad refuses to allow me to consider his alma mater’s rival unless I give equal if not more attention to his school.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus UNC gives good financial aid to OOS? That’s strange, I thought they didn’t.</p>
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<p>Using <a href=“Net Price Calculator”>Net Price Calculator; , I put in a hypothetical student from a very low income family not in North Carolina and got a net price of $2,700 (based on list price of $50,938 minus Pell grant of $5,730 and institutional/state grants of $42,508).</p>
<p>I know both UVA and UNC have fantastic “scholars” programs that are open to OOS students. Unfortunately, the programs I’m most familiar with are hard to get into…like “as hard as Harvard” hard to get into. (D concluded that, despite a good “numbers,” she just doesn’t have the “intangibles” to be in the running for a Jefferson or Robertson scholarship.) </p>
<p>We know students who got into Harvard, Stanford, etc., but were turned down for Robertson.</p>
<p>^^
I was going to write “harder-than-Harvard” but I didn’t want to exaggerate. That was my impression, too, though. :)</p>
<p>However, based on the UNC net price calculator, getting a Robertson or Morehead-Cain scholarship is not necessary for an out-of-state low income student to get good financial aid there.</p>