Would anybody mind sharing experiences with a situation when you felt very strongly against a college your child picked? What worked and what didn’t? I understand that each situation is unique, but I am just completely at a loss right now. So, here is our story. Ever since she started thinking about college, DD 21 went back and forth between two Christian colleges. She never seriously considered any other school. I was fine with either choice. My only concern was the cost, so we would have chosen the cheaper option. In February we went to visit school # 1 and she loved it and didn’t want to think about school # 2 anymore. In March she went to the state where school # 2 is located and loved the state (though did not visit the college), so then she wanted to go school # 2 (yes, she changes her mind a lot). We were scheduled to visit school # 2 in March, but it got canceled due to COVID. In August she came up with a list of a few more schools she wanted to apply to. Initially I thought that it was not a bad idea to have a few more schools as a backup. I did not care much about any of them, but only crossed one off the list (Arkansas State). Now, apparently, she does not want to go to a Christian college at all. She wants to go to OSU to have a real Greek life experience. She never ever mentioned wanting to go to Oklahoma before, just the opposite. I do know where it is coming from. She has a friend of less than a year at OSU who started there about a month ago, joined a sorority and now is back home with corona. What I am hearing is: “I want to party”. She says its not about that at all and she has other reasons. Her other reasons that it is less expensive (I don’t know where she’s getting her numbers, because from what I see on OSU website, it is going to be only marginally cheaper) and another friend told her she would do better at a state school. Another reason she gave me is that her sister got to go to college I originally did not like, so she should be allowed to do the same. Normally, I am all for letting kids make their choices and bear the consequences, but this one is a little bit too important. I don’t know much about OSU, it may be a fine school. But I don’t think Greek life should be the main reason for choosing a college, especially for a kid who is young (she just turned 17), immature, who changes her mind a lot (and then tells me I should have been firm and made her do what I thought was right) and who is easily swayed by other people opinions (just not parents’ opinion). Now, we are not a wealthy family and I am working very hard and making a lot of sacrifices to make college happen for both of my kids. And while I am willing to do that for the right reason, going to school to party is not one of them. So, I guess I just need to hear some success stories and strategies when a parent just said ‘no’ and it worked out. Thank you all in advance!
We had one rule for college picks- we’d pay more for more-- but not more for less.
So more rigor? Tougher academic standards? Better reputation in the particular field? World class lab or library facilities? More faculty in the department of choice? All worth paying more for.
Students better dressed, better weather, closer to surfing, skiing, or whatnot (my kids were not athletes- so this was recreation, not athletic opportunities) better parties, etc-- no. Not how I planned to spend the money we had carefully been saving since the days they were born.
You are really early on though- much too early to be arguing over Greek life. Why not put together a thoughtful list of possibilities and then figure out which ones are affordable and meet everyone’s criteria? And your D wouldn’t be the first kid to gravitate towards a small college junior year and then decide she wants a big university by the time she’s a senior.
Have you given her a budget, does she have an idea of what she wants to study, can you both explore OSU and a couple of other universities to see where the best academic opportunities are before you dig in???
Do you just want people to tell you you are correct and she is wrong? You can do what you want with your money and you probably have good reasons for not wanting her at a big school - parties, covid 19, big sports, maybe less control over off campus parties.
Are you willing to consider OSU and want to hear good things about it? Ask her why she wants to go to OSU. If she says “Parties” then you are right to step in and say no. If she has good reasons, consider them.
You didn’t mention her major. The big (okay, huge) schools have many more majors to offer than most smaller christian colleges. I’m not going to tell you there aren’t parties at the fraternity houses, but there aren’t at the sororities. Sure they go to the parties at the frat houses, but they do not host parties because they can’t have alcohol at the sorority houses. Some other positives are that the gpa’s of sororities are usually higher than the campus as a whole. Scholarship and philanthropy are stressed.
The cons are that the sorority may cost a lot. My D#1 lived in the house and it was actually cheaper than the dorms, and that included her dues. D#2 chose not to live in her sorority house so her dues were about $400/sem. However, at some schools the dues and fees are pretty high. I’m not sure about OSU
I think this is your D’s college search, not yours. Set your budget and expectations but then you need to be open to where she thinks she fits in the most. If you are worried that partying is going to be a distraction, set some guidelines about your GPA expectations while you are footing the bill.
I agree with @twoinanddone - have a discussion with her about OSU and why she wants to go there and see what she says.
Kids find parties if they are looking for them. Kids party on “dry” campuses, kids find alcohol (and other substances) in the most restrictive or religious environments, ask EMT’s (and OB-GYN’s and other health care professionals) about the issues they deal with even in communities where religious colleges are located.
I think the real issue here is to get on the same page regarding what your D is looking for in her college experience. Get an actual dialogue going about what she’s looking for- academically and intellectually, socially, etc. Then start at the beginning and make a list- what’s affordable stays on, what’s not comes off. The ones where she’s likely to get admitted- great. A reach or two- great. A “parent pick” just because.
You’re a long way off from making a decision, and it’s too early to draw up the battle lines.
And get some clarity around your concern that she’s too swayed by other people. Is it because she’s young for her grade? She can take a gap year before heading off to college- work, volunteer, find a service project.
It sounds like shes trying to find herself and make her own decisions. It sounds like you are more concerned she isnt following your preference for a religious school.
I say as long as its cheaper and has solid options for her intended interests, let her go.
@twoinanddone I do want to give her choices a fair consideration, but it is a huge red flag for me that when I ask her about why she wants to go to OSU, the answer I get is “I want to join a sorority” and “So-and-so told me I’ll do better at state school” (and we are not talking about best friend here, more of an acquaintance). I was in the same situation with my older daughter and I do realize I have a pattern here. I was not happy with her choice, but when I saw that her reasons were good (quality of academics, open curriculum, living communities) and when I saw a bunch of kids just like her on campus and realized that it truly would be a good fit for her, I was fine with her choice. I just don’t sense the same degree of introspection here. And we can’t just go and visit due to the current situation. That’s why I wanted to hear some personal experiences of similar situations. Her major is speech therapy. All 3 schools offer it. One of the schools is among the top schools in Texas for this field. When she was choosing between school #1 and # 2, she was considering quality of the programs, opportunities for hands-on-experiences, community and other reasons I could understand. I feel like with OSU she chose it because somebody told her it was fun and cool.
I’m a speech pathologist. For that field, she will need a masters. I will say, do the two Christian colleges have a speech clinic on campus? Do undergrads have the opportunity to at least observe there?
She really can major in anything an apply to speech pathology grad programs. She just needs to be able to take the prerequisite courses for admission. Make sure she knows what those are.
Does she know that speech pathology will require a two year masters program following undergrad? Without a masters, she won’t be able to be licensed and she would be able to get ASHA CCC certification…both the standard for this field.
But back to your question…I think college kids need to choose the college they will be attending…because they will be the ones attending the school. Obviously if there is some compelling reason to veto a college choice, that’s another thing. I haven’t heard a compelling reason to say yes or no to OSU (assuming that means Oklahoma and not Ohio).
@blossom That’s the thing. It’s not like we never discussed colleges and expectations. And those Christian colleges is all she ever wanted and we were on the same page that either one of them would be a great fit for her. Affordability was an issue, but I was willing to find ways to make things work for her to be able to go to the right school. And now she did a complete flip. I get it that she is a teenager and gets to change her mind, but I feel like in this situation the stakes are too high. And she already applied to both of these Christian colleges and she should be getting a decision within the next month. They won’t expect the answer immediately, but it is still something that would have to be decided in the next few months. And with her pattern of changing her mind 3 times in the last 6 months, I just don’t know what to expect anymore. And yes, she is one of the youngest in her grade and the thought crossed my mind many times that she might not be ready for college yet, but I don’t think she’ll be open to taking a year off. Plus, there is this whole issue of financial aid for the older one, if the younger one is not in college. Thank you for all of your suggestions!
If your daughter frequently changes her mind, she may be better off at a large university incase she changes her major.
I would encourage her to write out a plan. Pros and cons of her top three choices. Make sure she is invested in researching everything about those three, majors, cost, etc. What is most important to her from a college experience. If it’s important enough to her, she can handle this. Sit down with her and evaluate it and take it all under consideration. If it makes sense, great. If it doesn’t discuss it. If you can’t agree, don’t just give in. Encourage her to take a gap year. Maturity will do her good and could save you money and both of you some grief.
@thumper1 Yes, she researched speech therapy in general and program offerings at both Christian colleges pretty thoroughly. They both have speech clinics and opportunities for undergrad hands-on-experience. She knows people who got degrees from both and are doing very well in their careers. One of the colleges has one of the top programs in Texas, where she plans to return to. And she does know that she would have to get Master’s right away. That’s why it is so important for us to choose the right college for undergrad. Now, OSU - she does not know anything about it, except that it has one.
I should add…back in the Stone Age, I did my freshman year at a small Christian college. I was positive it was what I wanted. I transferred to a public university with about 30,000 students for my sophomore year. That’s where I got my bachelors in communication disorders. But as noted, there were tons of majors from which to choose.
My daughter was also 17 when she was going to college, and 16 when she was picking. She didn’t think she wanted a big school at all, and ended up picking a ~3500 student tech school. About 4 weeks into her freshman year, she went to visit a friend at FSU, and called me to say “I could have done a big school.” In four weeks she’d gain that much confidence.
My other daughter also wanted a smaller school but ended up with ~10,000 students. She was so happy she had more choices when she did decide to change her major. In fact, by the end she was wishing for a bigger school with more courses, particularly in her major. Schools can have a big course catalog, but often only a few courses are offered every year in every major. Some courses are only offered every other year or every third year.
Anyway, 16 and 17 year olds DO change their minds. They are growing by trying new things. A lot of 16 year olds have never been away from home but others are experienced travelers or have been to camps or taken university classes in the summers. Sounds like your daughter is trying on options. Help her work through the options, point out the pros and cons of each school on her list. She may be able to visit by the spring, but spend some time on the virtual tours too.
She really doesn’t have to decide until next April.
@2plustrio She is definitely trying to find herself and I get it. And that’s exactly the reason why I want her to be at a Christian school and it is as much her religion as it is mine. She will have a support system there that will help her through this process and will help her stay grounded. And because of her personality she’ll need all the support she can get. Now, I am not sure that big state party school will do the same for her.
My son knows a lot of people at OSU and my dd’s best friend recently graduated from there. She was in a sorority. She had an outstanding experience at the school. Has a wonderful job, studied abroad, travelled with her sorority sisters and now has a house with a couple of them in Austin where she works. If she goes there it is not all bad. There are good and bad sororities at every school. I do know some of the Christian Colleges in TX. My dd’s second best friend went to one of them, had trouble finding her people and still has not found a job even though she had good grades. So just look at it with an open eye.
My son was president of his fraternity, got a 4.0, and is now a first year veterinary student (at a school that competes with OSU and is about the same size). It was a great experience for him. He has said he WOULD NOT do it during this year because it is a mess with so many people living in a house. Other than that he would do it again. His gf is a pre-med senior in a sorority and has also gotten high marks. The sorority and fraternity they belong to both have greater than 3.5 averages for over 100 members each. Kids will party wherever they go if they want to.
I was hesitant my son went 10 hours away but he did great and is totally independent now at 21. Just look at it with an open eye. Ask for a zoom meeting with the head of the department. They are doing that for prospective students. Sit in with her and listen to what they have to offer. Talk about study abroad programs, or other opportunities for internships they may have. Good luck.
Been there. As a later junior, someone asked D1 what her main criteria were and she blurted out, “Stong Greek life.” I kept my mouth shut. Same when she said, “As far away from home as possible.”
First of all, money was a consideration. All along, we emphasized that the right college, in the end, would be affordable, would offer the right fin aid. (There was a second daughter to consider.) I agree with blossom that we considered paying more for more. But in our case, we didn’t set this up as whatever she wanted. She understood.
Second, one of the best pieces of advice we got was about how much kids grow during later junior year, then over that summer, and more through fall semester of senior year. We were willing to wait that out. Your girl doesn’t necessarily know what her criteria are.
There’s more, but I’ll skip ahead. We visited schools where I thought she had a shot, in terms of admissions, her desirability, strength of her major, reasonable proximity, social life she said she wanted, and more. As she grew, one by one, the ones I wasn’t keen on dropped from her view. But all this was her. I didn’t question, expect solid explanations, or a final list too soon in the process.
She did grow, refine her interests. By December deadlines she had a nice list and declared she could be happy at any one of them. And still understood the affordability clause. Ended up at a wonderful choice…
…with no Greek life.
I’m not a big Greek fan personally but I know plenty of women who were in sororities, who stress service and socialization as two important factors, and some still have sorority sisters looking after them decades later. I know nothing about specific sororities but it sounds to me that if you are looking for somewhere that will give her a support system and sense of community, you/she could do worse than the right sorority. And college is about more than just getting a degree. I also have to imagine that somewhere like OSU has pretty strong Christian representation despite it apparently having a reputation as a party school. You’re not going to be able to control her environment her entire life. Giving her a little bit more leeway than you’re entirely comfortable with, but in a fairly controlled setting, seems to me a good compromise for this stage of her life. As someone else suggested, you can have an agreement that if she doesn’t meet what would be a normal gpa for her, you won’t continue paying for her to attend there and she needs to transfer.
This is very common and I think you are trying to force your child to bend to your will. You clearly think a nice small Christian college is a better choice, but your daughter is making her choices, even now as a teen. Kids grow up and change their minds. They can keep changing their minds right up until decision date.
With my younger child, where he ended up was the absolute last place I ever thought he’d be happy. He started off with saying he wanted a beautiful campus and lots of rah rah football spirit. He ended up at a school with no football team and a decidedly not-gorgeous campus. It was the only school that was on his original long list. He’s happy and loves his school.
It’s fine to have definite no’s for your kid, but they should be backed up by solid reasons. In the early stages, son expressed interest in a couple of schools that were on my no fly list. I told him right off the bat that he could forget them, and he did. If OSU is absolutely off your list, you’d better make it clear now. Otherwise, support her choices and understand that many teens are influenced far more by peers than by parents. She is making her choices.
It’s got to be HER college experience. Be sure you are being fair in what colleges you are willing to pay for.