Community College/Guaranteed Admission Transfer OR Lower Tier School??

College Search & Selection
1

So - here’s a question – for a HS kid with low GPA/SAT scores…which route is better…(A) go to community college and attend higher tier school (such as W&M, UVA, VT, JMU) via Guaranteed Admission OR (B) just pick lower tier school such as Radford or Longwood and graduate from there if happy with school??

Also – if HS kid still wants to experience campus life if going with Option A – any thoughts on Richard Bland College of William & Mary?? This is a junior college with guarantteed admission programs and also on-campus housing.

2

Answering the first part of your question, with low GPA and SAT I would be concerned with a student not being prepared for college. A community college will make sure basic study and testing skills are in place before heading off for a four year school. JMO

3

I am familiar with these schools, and the VA community college system. The answer: it depends on the student. If they are someone who will work hard in a community college environment, then that route might be a good one. It does require two years of dedicated work in an environment where that might not be their first choice. Will they do that?

So I’d suggest honestly considering why the low GPA and SAT. Are there academic challenges–like dysgraphia, dyslexia, ADHD, etc.? Are there motivation issues? Are video games/social media an issue? Are they relatively immature? Are straight-up academics like higher level math or writing just not their interest or forte? It’s fine if any one of these, or any combo, is the cause of the “low GPA and SAT.” Even if it’s not their forte, that’s fine. I know lots of very successful people who did not have much interest or success in school.

If one of the other things (challenge/motivation/distractions/maturity), or some combo, is the issue, addressing that will be important to future success in school. If, rather, academic work is not their interest/forte, a William and Mary or JMU might be a challenge.

I think, too, that it is helpful to not look at it as “just” picking a lower-tier school. There are wonderful faculty, staff, and students at these schools. Many, many students at these schools will go on to successful lives. It really depends on HOW the student goes to school, rather than WHERE. Just like a successful life really depends on getting up in the morning and making good decisions and acting positively on them. Radford and Longwood certainly offer transformative opportunities to students willing to come in and work hard, have a positive attitude, and treat everyone with respect and dignity.

If maturity is an issue, your kid might consider working a gap year. Parents understand that a college education can be important for lots of people (though not everyone), but it can be more difficult for a teenager to see that, to project out 4 or 10 or 20 years and see how performing a task (writing a paper, etc.) might be important to where one is then. Some real-world experience can help a young person understand why getting up at 8 in the morning to attend an econ lecture might be part of an important process, and not the hardest responsibility one might have.

Good luck either way it works out!

4

To elaborate…she has an IEP/has ADD/dyscalculia (math dyslexia)…struggles in math, but does well in other subjects (As, Bs). But if effort and determination were graded it would be all As. She is mature enough to handle college and life away from home. She just does not do well in math. She is currently interested in Education/Early Childhood Education/Teaching and will actually be taking Early Childhood Education 1-2 in her Junior/Senior yrs. She understands the benefits of graduating from a school such as W&M and say JMU (mainly because that is my alma mater). But she understands also that it is what you do with your degree that matters. She is more disciplined/motivated than her twin brother and the only reason she is not getting straight As is due to her LD which mainly affects her math courses. Unfortunately, we live in FFX county…one of the most competitive/over achieving counties in NOVA…students all taking AP/Honors classes – makes it very hard for the more average student.

5

Fellow NOVA resident here, and definitely agree it is hard for NOVA students looking to state schools. One of mine has dysgraphia and ADD, so know how that plays out as well. It sounds like college will be a better fit for her than high school because math will be much less of an issue. Her maturity and discipline will be helpful. So that’s great news.

What about the financial side? You say she is a twin, so you’ll probably have two going into college at the same time, which can be financially brutal. Would a private school be an option? A few schools like the College of Wooster claim to meet full financial need, although there are important caveats to that.

Have you looked at VCU? It’s urban and does not have a traditional campus. It might not be for her, but we’ve known several students in recent years who’ve had great, transformative experiences there, including one from very near FFX who was a student similar to your daughter and who almost did not get out of the car on the first visit but loves it now.

Or what about GMU? I know local kids often don’t get excited for it, but it has lots of residential students now. The education school is strong. She could have the residential experience and transfer after a year or two if it was not working out.

6

Richard Bland sounds like a good option. They have guaranteed transfer agreements with both W&M and UVa (and other VA publics).

7

What intelligence can you collect from your own local grapevine about supports for students with your daughter’s set of learning differences at these places. It may not be so much CC vs 4-year, but rather Richard Bland vs NOVA vs VCU vs Radford.

8

Yes, she is a twin, so will have 2 in college at same time…hence only looking at VA schools and only public schools. Even though we will have 2 in college at same time, with 2 working parents we will not qualify for much if any financial aid…it’s that old saying that I have heard from many of my peers…you are basically screwed if you are NOVA middle class…you make too much to qualify for financial aid and too little to pay for 2 in college at same time.

She definitely does NOT want to go to NOVA. She wants the college on-campus living experience and I want her to have at least that…plus in our area driving to/from NOVA for classes will be a nightmare with traffic the way it is. GMU is an option too…if she gets in, but I’ve heard it is no longer that easy. Their % acceptance was 69% several years ago and probably lower now.

Another thing is she will do better at a smaller school (at least for her first 1-2 yrs) and she understands that.

So, if we go the CC route it will be Richard Bland or otherwise…where she is accepted…Radford, Longwood, VCU…we are also looking at Christopher Newport.

As for her twin brother…who knows…he may end up at CC first as well…no LD for him, but he has less discipline…just plain messing around. Which would not be the end of the world either.

9

For Education/Early Childhood, I would worry more about cost than name recognition. Since it isn’t a maturity issue, I would lean toward the 4 year school if she is happy with them. Your son sounds more of a CC candidate.

10

@scoutmom2002 I agree with the post above about cost vs the name for a degree in ECE. CWM tuition is about 2x the cost of some other state schools that would be fine for this degree path. Another smaller state school to consider would be U. of Mary Washington. If can’t get accepted now due to stats they have a GAA with Richard Bland. Good luck with the search.

11

She can work with young children for a living wage as a kindergarten or first grade teacher - she would not make a living wage as an early education specialist (unless she can become bilingual and work in a bilingual preschool, where the double qualification is much in demand, especially French and Chinese - I’m sure you’ve seen it in FFX/Montgomery county). So first check how she can be a k-2 teacher and how much math that requires in VA. Then, look at each college’s math requirement to make sure it doesn’t go above that. At some colleges, it’s two semesters, at some one class, at yet others the quantitative requirement can be met with a variety of choices including programming and ‘math for elementary teaching.’ Also, could her disability make her interested in being a K-2 Special Ed teacher or reading specialist (everything Special Ed is much in demand).
Run the NPC for two in college on private colleges with majors of interest for both of your twins as some private colleges offer a sort of discount for twins enrolling at the same time. Check out Roanoke, Guilford, Virginia Wesleyan. Don’t forget the women’s colleges and test optional colleges such as Wesleyan, Sweet Briar, Hollins, Agnes Scott. Run the NPC entering “2in college”.
Richard Bland may be the best possibility, even if her ultimate endpoint is not W&M.

12

^Co-ed Wesleyan University in Connecticut is test-optional; All-women’s Wesleyan College in Georgia is not:
http://www.wesleyancollege.edu/admission/undergraduate/Admission-Undergraduate-Home-Page.cfm

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Sorry if unclear, I meant women’s colleges such as Wesleyan college (GA), Agnes Scott, Sweet Briar, Hollins, as well as test optional colleges. And some women’s colleges are test optional.

14

The post above (#10) from @MYOS1634 is one you should read twice, and also remember the smaller VA state schools when considering schools and cost.

15

I was actually in this same situation, just in California instead. Either way, I would 100% go with the CC route. I think CC is a wonderful thing- not only does it give students a second chance, it allows students to truly explore themselves. I say this because CC students can change their majors freely and without essentially any penalty, compared to 4-year students.
The community college system that we have in America is truly a privilege- to be able to essentially gain admission to any college, depending on your grades/application of course, is a wonderful gift that shouldn’t bee taken lightly.
Given just how competitive the job market today,the difference between going to a top-tier and highly regarded school vs. a lower tier school could be huge. Of course, there are exceptions; but in most situations, there seems to definitely be a gap in the professional world.
Beyond that tho, for me personally, it was just about being able to sleep at night. I was a bit different than the student you’re talking about, in that the reason why I wasn’t able to get into a satisfactory college was simply due to my lack of effort. During my senior year where all my peers were talking about the colleges they were so excited to attend, I almost caved in due to my naive desire to fit in and actually decided on attending one of those lower tier schools, like Cal State San Marcos. I’m forever thankful for my dad who talked me out of it, cuz had I made that decision, I’d probably have a tough time sleeping at night.

Also, keep in mind that this student will always have these same opportunities in CC. If she was good enough to get into those schools while in HS, she’ll probably have no problem getting into those same schools again as long as she continues to work hard. I truly believe that she could improve in community college tho, cuz I feel that it tends to be easier to do well in CC vs HS, at least for me. You can pick whatever times you want to attend your classes (no more dreaded morning classes), pick whatever teachers you want (ratemyprofessor is your best friend) and have a set plan to successfully transfer to the state-school of your desire. Be careful about that “guaranteed admission” term tho. Idk about Virginia’s CC system, but guaranteed transfer is only guaranteed when you meet certain requirements in GPA, courseload, etc. and students who get in via guaranteed admissions are mainly comprised of students who would’ve gotten in anyway if they just applied regularly.

16

Thanks everyone!! We have discussed option of Community College/Guaranteed Admission pathway and she seems ok with it – although she really wants the “college experience” of moving away from home and living on campus. This is why we are really considering Richard Bland College of the College of William & Mary.

We are also discussing smaller schools that hopefully she could get into directly such as Radford or Longwood. Then, the reach schools would likely be JMU, Christopher Newport. We’ll probably also visit VCU so she can see a larger school and the difference between a university surrounded by many activities and places to go versus a smaller one in a tiny town.

With regard to the “private” colleges…she may consider applying but the high cost is keeping those in the background for now.

The plan is to have her visit all the schools because in the end I want it to be a “good fit” for her. If she visits them all and ends up really loving a reach school and gets rejected, then she can choose Richard Bland and transfer. If she ends up loving Radford and gets accepted then great.

I admit it is really hard as a parent in NoVa not to get sucked into the “only the best school will do” attitude, especially if paying for it. And there really is a stigma with attending CC among the NoVA crowd. Although technically Richard Bland is not a CC, but rather a public junior college :wink:

As an aside, the only issue I see with Richard Bland is that it really is in the sticks…and neither one of my kids will have a car with them freshman year.

Now we are just working hard to inprove grades, complete her Girl Scout Gold Award and plan out her courses for Junior year…the fun continues!

17

Give VCU a chance. We’ve known several students who’ve gone there from Nova in recent years. All of them have loved it, and it’s been really transformative for several of them, including one who did not want to get out of the car the first time they visited campus but now is very happy they went. Richmond itself has been totally transformed in recent decades.