Community College or an UC School?

Transfer Students UC Transfers
1

[Originally in the Community College thread, but moved to this thread for more advice]

Hello there!
I am a current Senior in high school and I’m in a major dilemma of whether I should attend community college or not.

Before I start, I have no idea whether or not I’ll be accepted to UCLA or UCI (my dream schools), but the reason why I need advice on this is because if people tell me that community college is a better option, I won’t even consider UC.

As for the facts, I’m currently considered a nonresident of California, and UC schools are VERY expensive for out-of-state students, as opposed to community college. HOWEVER, I will be considered an official resident of California after a year (due to the requirement, sigh) because my mother and I plan on moving there for good. My mom suggests that I don’t even think about paying the $49,000 for one year, and pay $8,000 for out-of-state community college instead. It’ll also be beneficial to me because I could work towards fixing my GPA.

Note: I’m unclear of what my family’s financial situation will be, but we most likely will have an annual income of less than $30,000-$25,000. I’m not allowed to work until I’m married according to my family, so that makes it even worse, and puts a large burden on my parents.

My side of the story is that I don’t want to ruin my undergraduate experience by having a hard time making connections and relationships with peer and professors. I’ve already gone through moving from school to school my entire life, and I at least don’t want to in college. Also, I don’t want jobs and internships treating me differently, or people responding with an “Oh.” when I say I’m going to a two-year university. I just want something to be proud of, y’know? I know community college isn’t bad, because it’s actually an amazing opportunity, but I just can’t convince myself. Please help!

Questions:
Can I transfer from community college after one year when I complete my requirement, instead of graduating from there? Will that lower my chances to get into UCLA or UCI?

I’m planning on majoring in Business Economics or General Economics, so would it be better to transfer or go to CC?

Let’s say I applied to UCLA/UCI and got accepted, but decided on community college instead. Would UCLA not accept me after I apply as a transfer because I denied them the first time, or would they understand? Is it better not to apply at all?

If I get a bad score on the SAT/ACT and go to community college, do I still need to take it? Will UC’s still look for my SAT/ACT scores?

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  1. You have to be a Jr to transfer to a UC. You do not need to graduate with an AA in order to transfer, though.
  2. They will not care if you get accepted as a freshman and do not go. Immaterial. Transfer admissions are based on how you do at the CC.
  3. Read the transfer pages to see what colleges require. Usually no SAT if you have 2 full years.
  4. Major doesn't matter for your transfer plans for the most part.

–if you enter california as a student, you may never be reclassified as a resident, you can’t count on that. Better to live here a year and then go to college if you are moving that soon.

–Your family makes too little money. How will they afford to move? How will you afford any UC now anyway if you get accepted now as an OOS student? It will cost you 35k minimum to max 56k and you will be expected to have a student work contribution during the year and likely summer too.

–Your family makes too little money to say you can’t work. Most low income students need to take advantage of federal work/study allocations at 4 years. But you say your family won’t let you work, so what jobs and internships are you talking about if you go to CC?

3

One year Econ transfer here,

  1. The UCs rarely accept lower division transfers and your best shot as a transfer will be as a Junior with 60 or more transferable units…especially to UCLA. It’s also not happening as a Business or Economics student where the competition is intense.

Source: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/transfer/minimum-requirements/

  1. UCs will not care if you forgo an acceptance in favor of a California Community College (CCC). A lot of students do so for financial reasons and eventually end up at the UC that originally accepted them.

  2. SAT/ACT scores are not considered in UC transfer admissions.

Source: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/preparing-admission/index.html

  1. I think your underestimating the intensive nature of qualifying for residency status. Since your only “planning” on moving here for good, your timer won’t start until you establish “enough” proof that you intend to stay in California PERMANENTLY. 366 days in California is the easiest to prove and most people have trouble proving an intent to stay which usually requires a long term lease or purchase of property. Since the first day of the semester system has already past you are looking at a minimum 1.5 years to qualify for residency rather than just one because you will still be a non-resident at the time of registration for next fall…leaving you to wait until spring to receive in-state tuition.

Source: https://www.deanza.edu/admissions/residency.html

4a) Additionally, the residency requirements for the UCs are much stricter than the CCCs. I know recent immigrants that were granted residency at the CCCs after one year, as per the 366 day requirement, but were denied by the UCs forcing them to pay OOS fees at the UC. I IMPLORE you to meet with a UC residency adviser to prevent any assumptions on residency as there are too many people who assume wrongly on this matter and are bitten badly.

Source: http://www.ucop.edu/general-counsel/_files/ed-affairs/uc-residence-policy.pdf

  1. With that income, you are almost guaranteed to qualify for a BOG waiver, which waives your tuition cost and provides you with a subsidy for educational expenses, after 366 days of of residence in California. Given the uncertain nature of your scenario, it’s financially better to exhaust your BOG waiver and meet all your major prerequisites at a CCC prior to transferring to minimize your risk and overall cost.

Source: http://www.losrios.edu/lrc/bog_eligibility.php

5a) I’d advise against a one year transfer for the reason above as well as that a second (or even third) year at a CCC would give you a significantly more time to establish proof that your not a California resident only for “educational purposes” and subsequently gives you a higher chance of receiving in state tuition once at a UC.

Source: (Again) http://www.ucop.edu/general-counsel/_files/ed-affairs/uc-residence-policy.pdf

  1. If your already used to moving then you already know how to handle the so called “difficulties” of being a transfer student. You’ll just have to do a personal evaluation on whether you prefer the “undergraduate experience” more than the fiscal ramifications.

Edit: Wrong link.

4

A couple of things:

  1. If you're not allowed to work (which I am confused about, but I don't know your situation) there are ways to make money online (surveys, interviews, MindSumo-type stuff). If your family income is in the $25-30k bracket, it will be difficult to afford UC tuition at the nonresident level, not factoring in California rent.
  2. CC isolation is pretty real. I know others have had different experiences, but I'm also not the only one who found it difficult to have a social life in CC, and not because of the amount of work--it's just a challenge with commuter schools. But I made it, and I don't envy the amounts of debt my friends have accumulated (especially as an English major, ha). That may make it worth it to you.
  3. I'm not sure how much attending a CC will impact your job search. I know I just started a wonderful internship, and I was nervous about telling the interviewer that I went to a CC. Turns out he was a transfer in college himself and it was a non-issue. In fact, while I've definitely encountered some of that CC stigma, most people who I've told have actually just told me I took the "smart" route by avoiding debt. And it really is true that you may as well get your GEs done for a fraction of the cost at a CC. I've only had one bad professor during my CC career, my classes were (for the most part) interesting and enlightening, and most of my professors had the terminal degrees in their field (so PhD or MFA--only one only had an MA). Small classes means more individualized attention, and more individualized attention means better letters of rec for internships or scholarships.

For your technical questions: you can only transfer as a junior to UCs, and you don’t need to graduate or have a degree from a CC to transfer. Deciding on community college vs UCLA/UCI won’t diminish your chances–I’ve seen people get in the first round, be unable to afford it, and go on to transfer there. They don’t consider your HS GPA or SAT/ACT scores, and won’t even ask for them.

5

@SDGoldenBear explained it brilliantly. Take two years at a CCC, and hopefully that should establish residency by the time you transfer, assuming you follow their very strict rules. The UCs will not care that you went to a CCC.

6

CCC is the better option by far, considering your financial situation.

Going to a UC now will essentially make paying for college equal to $200,000, while going to CC and transferring after you establish residency will make things in the neighborhood of $80,000 (with OOS status at CC).

You MAY miss out on the 4-year experience, but seriously, if you apply yourself, you may get into Haas as a transfer, which looks loads better to employers than going to UCI BizAdmin all 4 years.

Everybody else summed things else rather well. CC seems to be your best option. Look into various CC’s in different locations in CA! Some schools are definitely better than others.

Also, because you’re low-income: try to be TAP certified, it’ll likely help you greatly.

7

I would get accepted first before even thinking about this. Getting in as an OOS student is not easy.

8

There is the caveat that, if you were to win a full-ride scholarship (i.e. Gates Millenium Scholarship), it makes sense to go directly to a UC (unless you only get into, say, UCI, and you are adamant about going to UCLA and can’t stand UCI, then it would make sense to go to a CC if you wanted to.)

9

You are not allowed to work until you get married.

Not to be political but,
To me that is abuse. You are (or will be) an adult and you can make those decisions yourself. Given your family’s income, you will be offered work study. You should definitely be working during the summer. This will not only help you pay fof school but will give you valuable experience for jobs and internships. The job market is very competitive.

If you start working now, save money and go to a CCC, you can end up with a good chunk of money for when you transfer. But getting a job is not easy, so start thinking about it now.

10

@anikom15 That’s not abuse. Different cultures often hold different values. It is a rather obscure condition, admittedly, but I don’t see the argument for it being abuse. Sure, it infringes upon OP’s autonomy at some level, but we all willingly sign away our freedom to some extent, although with different measures.

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Certain values are simply wrong, IMO.

There is the very real possibility that the family is unaware of how expensive college really is and how valuable work experience is.

OP, another possibility is waiting to go to college. If you are in no hurry to get a job then I see no reason to hurry to get an education. ‘Gap years’ and the like can be helpful esp. if you’re not sure what you want to study.

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@anikom15 You lost me at “Certain values are simply wrong, IMO”, as we’re talking about OP’s situation, with that specific context. I would love to see a proof of how certain values are universally wrong, however!

@muzzles can challenge their parents if they wish to - that isn’t for you nor I to decide.

13

I don’t know your qualifications so, it is silly to speculate about this. It is quite likely you wouldn’t be admitted into UCLA or UCI, making the whole discussion mute.

Move to CA now - wait a year and apply for Fall 17 admission to your dream school. If that doesn’t work out go to a CC and transfer in. If you can’t work, sit around and play video games… Attending a day of CC in that window will cost you dearly.

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@muzzles

If you don’t mind I’m curious regarding what culture you’re a part of. I’ve know personally of many cultures that discourage women from working after they marry. (though its gotten a lot better from a couple decades back, but I’m interested in what culture is against working before marriage. That seems somewhat foreign to me.

That said, I have to give the same advice everyone else is giving, working is probably a necessity in your situation. The economic implications of not working are too drastic if you family is only dependent on 30k to live reasonably well in California. At least well enough that you won’t have to worry about the basic necessities while attending CC.

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@goldencub I’m not sure how you want me to prove how certain values are wrong, but I can give an example of human sacrifice being a common and important part of many early civilizations that I find to be completely stupid. Likewise I believe any restriction from working based on some arbitrary criteria (i.e. marriage) is completely stupid.

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@anikom15 and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion (which, you cannot deny, is a direct result of being influenced by this society.

But you said that certain values are simply wrong. How can any values be wrong if you cannot give me an adequate mechanism for which certain values are universally right, and certain values are universally wrong?

Are you comparing human sacrifice to a restriction from working? I don’t find that to be sufficient. Furthermore, such early civilizations would consider human sacrifice to be extremely right and good. Is there any difference between that and sending our army to other countries to fight? Is killing somebody universally wrong, or does it depend? And if it does depend, what does it depend on? Is there some sort of mechanism that you somehow know that can explain this? What is this mechanism? Or does it not exist?

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Jesus Christ. First question: me being unable to provide a ‘mechanism’ does not mean something cannot exist. Gravity exists, but we are still unable to fully understand its mechanism. Likewise, universal truths exist. I’m not a philosopher and am not interested in the details of how they exist or what makes them right or wrong, but I do know what is right and what is wrong when I see it.

Second question: yes, both violate a universal right I believe in: the right to life and the right to work.

Third question: they are incomparable situations.

Fourth question: it depends.

Fifth question: the motivation for killing.

Sixth question: of course. I answered this in the first question.

Seventh question: I suppose it would be my conscience.

Eighth question: see first answer.

Pat yourself on the back for sounding smart, but this is a pointless conversation. If you want to continue it then you should send me a PM. I gave OP advice for if she is unwilling to rebel against her family. There are many things she can do before getting married that are cheaper than school, like volunteering and hobbies, that can provide opportunities for the future.

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@anikom15 Oh, no, I’m not suggesting that universal laws of morality do not exist. Admittedly, I don’t know.
If you know what is right and what is wrong when you see it, then why are you unable to give a definitive mechanism for the workings of morality? Your conscience cannot possibly give absolute answers to all moral dilemmas that exist.
Many of the questions I asked are rhetorical, so I will not spend my time refuting your answers. I’m primarily arguing that:

1: You do not know what constitutes universal morals/values. Because this is a massive component of your argument, all that you have said is problematic. Furthermore,

2: You do not have the right to chastise OP regarding values that you disagree with; in my opinion, you only would be warranted in this respect if you had an adequate argument to back your statements up. I don't mean to be too impudent (as I certainly am to some degree, but I think it's necessary to make my point), but you lack this.

Because of the aforementioned, I think you are unwarranted in simply writing off OP’s arrangement with their parents as abuse. If they feel that it is, or that they ought to work, then they are able to make that choice.

Plus, this arrangement that you claim to be abuse is an extremely minor component of OP’s original post. They wanted advice regarding whether they should go to a CC or a UC as an OOS student. Yes, finances are a concern, but there are ways to address that without giving your opinion regarding OP’s family life, such as: “You should consider talking to your parents about working, as OOS tuition is expensive, and working would certainly alleviate financial pressure.”

I’m attacking your argument because I found it to be offensive and poorly substantiated. Don’t feel so offended.

I also agree that OP would do well to participate in extracurriculars, and/or get a job. Still, I have absolutely no right to tell them what they ought to do.

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What if OP never gets married? Do you think it’s reasonable for someone to never be allowed to work by their family because they never get married? What other opportunities can be withheld before marriage? Driving a car? Owning property? Voting?

You may want to read about John Locke, particularly Essays on the Law of Nature (though I’ve never read the entirety myself). I’m not a philosopher. I just base my views off of his.

I never chastised OP. In fact the original post led me to believe she does not agree with the idea of not being allowed to work. (You assume it is cultural when it might not even be. My father wanted me to go to law school. That had nothing to do with culture.) Regardless, many times people do not realize they are being treated unfairly until it is pointed out by an outsider. Obv. I am not afraid to do this. My way of speaking works quite well for me, and OP is perfectly capable of ignoring me.

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@anikom15 I’m not a fan of Locke. I think it’s incorrect to disregard what may be culture and tradition regarding something like this. You can hold whatever views you wish, but your liking certain ideas does not give you the right to disregard that which is in opposition with the convictions you hold.

I’m guessing that it is cultural, as clearly, not working before marriage is extremely uncommon in the US. My inference isn’t some stab in the dark. (Your father wanting you to go to law school is not at all a direct comparison - again, false analogy). Of course it may not be cultural, but this does not make it unlikely that it is cultural.