Confessions of a School Snob

Parents Forum
21

<p>Well, you’ve left the fun way to soar off the list. Tell S something like
“Look, part of my job is to make sure you are independent and knowledgeable of the world. I want to send (SEND, not “take”) you and a buddy to see X Campus and Y campus. I’ll pay for the plane/train ticket and meals and a souvenier T shirt. You should stay overnight on the campus (see dorm, talk to students, save bucks). You do not have to apply or attend either of these two schools – I just want you to see a bit of what is out there and get experience traveling on your own.”</p>

<p>Yes, this will cost some bucks – but some times you have to spend some to save some. Let him and the buddy (not girlfriend!) have an adventure on your nickel. Chances are that they will not fill you in with all the details you want to hear unless you are a really good interviewer (Ask “how was the trip?” and you will get “Fine.” Say “Tell me what was a strong point” and you’ll get a full report on the quality of the pizza slice . . . so aggravating!). </p>

<p>We worked hard to get both our guys to see 1) a large public school, 2) a private Liberal Arts College and 3) a smaller state school during the junior year. This at least gives them some size/style clues. There is still a chance to do some campus visits before the fall school semesters begin. Even if your kid has to miss some of the senior year, it is well worth it to get them to a campus or two on their own.</p>

22

<p>jcc,</p>

<p>whether its garden style college or cc, once he gets a handle of it(I mean maturity wise), he will look beyond the current situation and transfer. On that end, I even think a cc is a better choice. Lets say he gets all A’s and took the highest level courses in a CC, in two years, if he is lucky, he may directly transfter into a state flag ship school and into a Guranteed MD program. I am not sure what is his in-state, is it Virginia?</p>

<p><a href=“BA/MD and BS/MD Programs FAQ | Student Doctor Network”>BA/MD and BS/MD Programs FAQ | Student Doctor Network;

23

<p>Olymom - I like your idea. The only flaw is his school starts Monday, but maybe we could plan something for fall break, which is a full week off in early October.</p>

<p>Marian - I double-checked and you are correct - his AP History class will suffice. That’s good news - now to clear the hurdle of miserable financial aid for OOS. One thing at a time…</p>

24

<p>OP is in Tennessee, artlover.</p>

25

<p>Well, I’ll buck the trend. I don’t blame you at all for feeling that a kid with a 3.8 GPA and 34 ACT who is a nationally-ranked athlete is wasting an opportunity by going to the kind of school you describe: severely lacking in challenge and close to home. I would be very disturbed that he has no desire to expand his horizons, but instead seems to want to shrink them. What is he afraid of? Sure, he could have achieved the 3.8 GPA by avoiding challenging classes, but a 34 ACT would seem to indicate that he has the innate talent to do well in a challenging venue.</p>

<p>I’m astonished that he is still favoring a school where NO ONE has applied to medical school while professing a desire to be a doctor! It sounds as if he’s saying that he wants to go to medical school because that is an acceptably ambitious-sounding long term goal, but ensuring that it is a goal he will never actually have to strive for by self-sabotaging now.</p>

<p>I’m puzzled that a kid with sufficient drive to be a top athlete and a successful student is so unmotivated and uninspired. If he showed an interest in your state flagship, that would be another matter. But what you describe is extreme and, to me, rather odd. </p>

<p>I am wondering if your S might find the atmosphere of an elite LAC more comfortable and less intimidating than that of a large, unfamiliar U. You might want to consider schools like Bowdoin, Carleton, Williams, Grinnell, and Amherst that would also have good FA available.</p>

<p>As far as FA is concerned, for a student with really significant need (an EFC of close to $0) the best money would usually come not from lower level schools, but from the top private schools: need-blind admissions with deep pockets. If, and that’s a big if, the kid can get in. To have a chance of getting really generous FA he probably ought to look higher, not lower. A notable exception to this is the kind of highly-competitive special scholarship available at some of the state flagships. Of course, if $10-15K merit money will do it for you, then looking lower in the pecking order is fine. (Actually, I think that you ought to cast a wide net including need-only and merit-based schools to maximize his choices.) </p>

<p>I just checked the VA Tech website. They apparently do not require ANY SATIIs, much less a specific one. Sounds like a trumped up excuse to me.</p>

26

<p>

[quote=OP]
He’s humoring me in principle, but feels hurt that I think his current choices are sub-standard - there’s a definite strain in our relationship every time a college discussion ensues.<a href=“I%20apologize%20for%20not%20reading%20the%20entire%20thread%20before%20posting.”>/quote</a> I agree with the people who say kids may change their minds. I also agree with the people who say it’s his decision, even though you may have to grind your teeth halfway away when he makes that decision. (I know I was going crazy with one of GeekSon’s favorite choices; fortunately his top choice came through and I didn’t have to worry about it.) </p>

<p>You can say “I want you to go to the college you like best, and I will love and support you with that college, but you may change your mind in the next nine months. I just want you to have options.” When it’s April and he chooses something you like better, hug him and say congratulations. When it’s April and he chooses Directional State U, hug him and say congratulations.</p>

27

<p>OP, I posted this on a roughly similar thread you started a few days ago. Where did you go? You may not have seen it so I’ll re-post it here.

</p>

<p>He needs to feel ownership of the process.</p>

<p>OP. I’d check again on the med school statistics from the local school. I find it hard to believe “zero students have applied”. In fact, I find it impossible to believe, knowing pre-meds as I do. :wink: (I’m not doubting you. The prof may well have said it, but he was poorly informed. Give me the name of the school and I’ll research it for you.)</p>

<p>Here’s the OP’s thread from a few days ago.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/968057-question-re-match-vs-reach.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/968057-question-re-match-vs-reach.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

28

<p>JCC: I wish you luck over the next several months. College selection is a challenging process for all concerned.</p>

<p>In general you will likely not have much luck with generous financial aid (grants, not loans) at OOS public schools. The exceptions seem to be Alabama and South Carolina. You should check on the Bama board, but your son’s stats should get him full tuition which would leave you with just room & board. There are lots of knowledgeable and helpful parents on that thread. South Carolina is also generous with OOS tuition, not as clear cut on the exact cutoffs for the scholarships.</p>

<p>My D1 wanted to apply to several schools, one being an OOS public. She was accepted and received an academic scholarship, a music performance scholarship, and admission to an honors program. BUT it wasn’t enough to bring down the cost to what would be feasible for our budget. Fortunately she was totally fine with it and is quite happy with where she is going (instate for us with scholarships and honors program as well). In the end she didn’t feel like she was settling to stay instate. The process was a learning experience for our family. Unfortunately i didn’t find CC till way late in the year or I would have had a better grasp on the OOS situation.</p>

<p>Agree with previous posters that small LAC’s that have generous aid packages and are need blind could be better options for your son.</p>

<p>How seriously does your son want to pursue his sports? As a cyclist, i am aware of how time consuming biking can be.</p>

<p>Do you feel comfortable naming the schools he is interested in? That might help others provide insight.</p>

29

<p>We learned of the “parent choice” application here on CC and went with it because my D had to apply early in October (her high school’s rule) and I was afraid that too much time would have elapsed between October and May, so I suggested one school just because I thought it would offer something special for her. She was gracious about it and when all the acceptances were in, we went to visit, and saw exactly what I had thought would appeal to her. She will attend in the fall and is very open with the fact that “sometimes mom does know best.” I had my older D choose one outlier school that was totally different just so she could have one really different option, as well. She did do that and seriously considered that school at the end, although it’s not where she ended up.</p>

30

<p>z-mom, I have mentioned on this forum (more than once, sorry) my observation that the time between end of junior year and April of senior is (for some students) a time of incredible growth and change. It is best to be prepared for that change by having a couple of options that leave room for that potential growth or change.</p>

<p>(For mine it was “urban” or “small college town/rural”. The opps available at an urban school ending up outweighing her desire for the comfort of the familiar. The last two schools standing for her were both “urban”. Who knew? ;))</p>

31

<p>I was very happy when my D. who graduated #1 in her HS and never had a single “B” in her entire life (including college, she is college senior) went to state school. She has never divided her list into safety/reaches. She got tons of Merits at every school that she has applied (one private) and very happy to be where she is now, applying to Med. Schools and has a spot at one of them. Classes at her UG have been exceptionally challenging, she would not want them to be more challenging than that.
She does not understand herself the hype about elite UG schools and why some are paying so much $$ for them. We did not pay UG tuition and good portion of R & B was also covered by Merit $$.</p>

32

<p>MiamiDAP, all schools are not equal. All state schools are not equal. No one, including the OP, is saying that this kid should not be applying to state schools. The question is, which ones?</p>

33

<p>The good news about your son’s school starting soon is that there is sure to be some discussion among your son’s classmates about where they’re applying, and some of his peers might react to his choice of fourth-tier (as you described them) colleges. Also, will he be meeting with his guidance counselor concerning his college choices? </p>

<p>I also wonder how committed your son is to becoming a doctor. It seems that a lot of students say they want to be a doctor because it is a socially-acceptable career to pursue, but the only doctor they’ve ever seen is their pediatrician once a year, so they don’t really know what is involved. </p>

<p>I sympathize with your position (I have a high-scoring daughter). It is perfectly reasonable for you to suggest several colleges for your son to consider, and even to request that he apply to several so that he’ll have more choices in April. If you are hoping for merit aid, he will need to apply to several because, absent guaranteed merit scholarships, it would be hard to predict what he’ll be offered.</p>

34

<p>My suggestion is to insist that he apply to two schools of his choosing that are more highly ranked. Have him visit those schools so he can compare them to the ones where e already plans to apply.</p>

<p>Do your best to stay in the background when he visits those schools. Even let him visit them alone. This will decrease the chances that if he notices good things about those schools or is tempted to go to those schools, he won’t cling to his original choices for fear that changing his mind will mean you “win.”</p>

<p>Leave in his hands the decision about where to attend, however.</p>

<p>Students often change a great deal between fall of senior year and April, when they have to pick which college to attend. This includes their acquiring more wisdom and sophistication about selecting colleges. Your son may change like this – more reason to insist that he add some better schools to his list.</p>

<p>Even if he still chooses a 4th tier school, after attending that school, he may decide to transfer to a better one, so don’t feel that his life will be ruined if he starts college by attending such a school. It’s very hard for me to imagine that a student with his stats would be happy attending a 4th tier school. He also should be able to transfer to a much better school.</p>

<p>Do keep in mind, too, that just as most college students change majors at least twice, most college students also don’t cling to the career aspirations that they had when entering college. Just because your son now wants to be a doctor doesn’t mean he’ll still want to be a doctor when he’s a college senior. This could be the case even if he goes to a highly ranked college.</p>

35

<p>Consolation,
Anyone that mathces OP’s kid desire will do just fine. It is much more what kid does at school then school itself. Everybody has his/her own criteria. My D’s was different from others. She wanted to be close from home. How anybody can answer where particular kid should go, he needs to see for himself.</p>

36

<p>He’s just a kid. He doesn’t know squat. Make him apply to some better schools, so he, at least, has choices on April 1st. He didn’t go through all those hours of labor - YOU did!</p>

37

<p>I’m not sure if anyone else touched on this (granted I skimmed some), or if it makes a difference, however VT does not require the SAT 2 subject tests. Their essays are optional, so the application is fairly straightforward.
I honestly could not tell from you post if you were suggestion VT is a 4th tier university. No matter honestly.</p>

<p>I strongly agree with others thar he should keep his options open. Tell him the ultimate choice will be his. Give him a list of schools and tell his to pick a certain number. He’s in charge, the choices are his. I don’t know if this will help at all.</p>

38

<p>The problem is that no one knows now how the OP will feel in April. </p>

<p>Our guidance counselors suggest each student should apply to six schools: two safeties, two matches, and two reaches. This way, everyone has “a choice” (choice between the two safeties, for sure) and students are forced to think outside the box a bit. I’m not sure if my son will follow this advice but it certainly sounds reasonable.</p>

39

<p>For any pre-health care student, Organic Chemistry is a true deal breaker for many. I know of so many who dropped pre-med because of that course. I went to a university which has a full complement of health care colleges; thus attracted many pre-health care student in its undergrad program, and I knew of many who changed their minds after that course.</p>

40

<p>Curmudgeon - PM inbound.
Blueiguana - no, I would not classify VT as a 4th Tier school - you misread that.</p>

<p>To everyone else - I’m overwhelmed by the number of responses, which at least validates my feeling that this is an issue. For now, I am going to stick with my plan of “making” him apply to a range of schools, especially ones known for good aid. Possibly his feelings will change by spring. If not, then years down the road when he says “why did you let me…” I can give him a withering glare and remind him of all these discussions!</p>