<p>And I've been insisting all along that even if you DO want to be a doctor, even if that IS your plan, you STILL shouldn't treat the process as a game, even if you gain an advantage by doing so.</p>
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maybe its cause I'm the typical arab kid who goes for medicine I dunno
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<p>hahaha, thats hillarious and completely not surprising....the great majority of the people i know who do those 7 year programs are egyptian and their parents are "doctors" usually as well....how about you think outside the box a bit....your in America, its easy to suceed without being a doctor and other professions arent looked down upon or anything. The fact that your dad is a doctor doesnt strengthen any of your points, it makes them worst since clearly ur parents are pressuring u to go this route...you just have to be honest with yourself and figure out what you are passionate about first and if it ends up being medcine thats great. There are many paths to success and happiness try exploring one and getting some more life experience before you commit to a very big decision....</p>
<p>....btw, before you lash out at me and say i'm racist or anything, i'm egyptian</p>
<p>dude....u have completely got me wrong now shraf lol...im not being forced into this....i agree though i probably have been brainwashed cause its just in the culture....but it worked on me, hahaha....you people probably dont believe me when i say that, haha.....w/e i cant change your opinion...im goin full fledged MD all the way</p>
<p>i kinda figured u weren't white from the named "shraf" and im not lashing out on you</p>
<p>and believe me, just cause my parents are docs and im arab doesnt mean i havent thought about other professions, BELIEVE ME i have thought of every type and medicine actually fit perfeclty even though its a tough road to take</p>
<p>i hate business, absolutely hate law, i suck at physics and math so knock out the engineer, im not the english/arts type of person at all....gov't and politics? they all seem like corrupt idiots no matter whose in the white house to me lol....i thought about teaching, but honestly i dont have the passion enough to accept a $25,000 paycheck for the year...nothing else works with me, beleive me i tried</p>
<p>umardarr,</p>
<p>First of all, political science is not only about American politics. </p>
<p>And teachers make a lot more than $25K a year.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that you haven't thought about it, but let me put it another way: You're 18.</p>
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i agree though i probably have been brainwashed cause its just in the culture
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<p>that was my whole point, so how have i gotten you wrong?</p>
<p>as for other professions...what happened to research? what happened to science?? and if you are really passionate about science you can end up working in a biotech company or do reasearch somewhere or become a professor.....all jobs that pay very well and have nothing to do with any of the areas you mentioned not liking. Its important to recognize that being an MD isnt the only science profession you can go into and it requires alot more than just liking the subjects involved or whatever....i'm guessing you have little to no experience in clinical settings at the age of 18....so how do you know you want to be a doctor? All i'm saying is realistically consider all the options and realize that you dont know what half the options are when you are 18 so you have to keep an open mind or something you'd like or be good at will pass you by.</p>
<p>nah, i dont wanna be a professor, if i were to teach, id enjoy it at the high school level so much, but yes shraf, teachers do make 25,000 dollars a year what r u talkkng about...maybe public schools are a bit higher but the 1ns at the school i would teach which would i would wanna be at my high school, since its a catholic private, they get paid like avg 20-25 grand...its a shame really cause i think teaching is just as great as medicine </p>
<p>yea ive probably been brainwashed but i enjoy it and it worked out, hahaha, i dont think i am being forced unwillingly because everyone did a good job proving med is awesome, and i think it is</p>
<p>and i do kow i want to be a doc...sr year i roated wtih 3 docs for 2 months everyday for 6 hrs a day learning and watching what they do...i work at my dads clinic during the summer and gain clinical experience that way. I also volunteer at the hospitals during the school year.....so its not like i have no idea what the heck medicine is...ive already come in so much contact with it</p>
<p>Im not saying im completely right here, i understnad ur point shraf and ill keep it in mind no doubt, i get that, im just sayin i havent made a blind decision in thinkin about med...who knows yea maybe in a while i may not want to do it anymore but right now i think i am...can u blame me for that, geez? lol</p>
<p>bluedevil, that report didn't even go into detail about individual schools. 58,000 could be the avg for all the public schools in the city, and there are a lot of public schools in toledo...I am betting you the avg salary at St Johns Jesuit High School, a private catholic HS is no way higher than 40,000...and im betting it is the same for all the other catholic HS's in the city u know we do TALK To the teachers when we were students there lol</p>
<p>and besides that point..60,000 is still not worth the job of a teacher lol....if i say this your then gonna go ahead and assume im only doing medicine for the money, but ill say it anyways lol</p>
<p>400,000 to 60,000???</p>
<p>I think all teachers should be making at least 100,000 a year regardless of what level...if not 100 grand maybe 80,000 </p>
<p>and besides THAT point (for cryin out loud) you know as well as i do that teachers dont get the respect they deserve, financially and probably just in general 2...im just sayin</p>
<p>Doctors don't make that much (400,000), at least not as fresh newbies. You have to work and build up your practice like a business to get it to that level. Believe me, you'll be middle aged before you start pulling that kind of money in. There are certain specialties that earn that much but they tend to be very very competitive to get into and usually very specialized = longer years of training. Logically speaking, you will also have tons of debt to pay off for med school/college. </p>
<p>Medicine should never be about the money because it frankly isn't there now especially with malpractice premiums increasing and insurers reimbursing only parts of what a doctor is owed. For example, if a doctor does a procedure that is billed for $1000, s/he might get $700 back. Add it up, you don't necessarily get a ton of $. </p>
<p>I-banking is a great way to make lots of money or even patent law. However, medicine is unique because of the emotional and intellectual rewards. Emotionally, you are able to change or improve someone's standard of living/life. What an amazing feeling to have a great impact on your patients! Intellectually, you are constantly learning throughout life and can always count on being a doctor even when you're 60. Most professions you usually take retirement after a certain age. I know of doctors at the ripe old age of 74 still working. It is the perfect fusion of humanism and science, bedside manner and research, relationships and knowledge. No other profession commands the same respect from or responsibility to your fellow man as medicine does. Know why medicine is right for you, and be able to back it up with more than just money or parents.</p>
<p>well yea of course, im not sayin im gonna come out of med school making that much, and i know i will keep working and enjoy my job and it will be just cooler once ii make that much or w/e...im just making a really broad estimate lol</p>
<p>Outside of plastics, do any doctors make $400K? Ever? At any point in time?</p>
<p>I do NOT mean this as a rhetorical question - I'm actually asking.</p>
<p>I had thought the answer was, "No, not even close!", and - as a premed - will be pleasantly surprised to hear if somebody can document a, "Yes, look here."</p>
<p>Bluedevil, many surgeons make big dollars (over 400,000 per year). Of course this is before things like malpractice insurance. Check out this link: <a href="http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?origin=secheader&statecode=&state=&metro=&city=&geo=U.S.+National+Averages&jobcode=HC07000311&jobtitle=Surgeon+-+Orthopedic&search=&narrowdesc=Healthcare+--+Practitioners&narrowcode=HC03&r=salswz_swzttsbtn_psr&p=050205_psr_495&s=salary&geocode=&pagenumber=&zipcode=&metrocode=156&x=38&y=11%5B/url%5D">http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?origin=secheader&statecode=&state=&metro=&city=&geo=U.S.+National+Averages&jobcode=HC07000311&jobtitle=Surgeon+-+Orthopedic&search=&narrowdesc=Healthcare+--+Practitioners&narrowcode=HC03&r=salswz_swzttsbtn_psr&p=050205_psr_495&s=salary&geocode=&pagenumber=&zipcode=&metrocode=156&x=38&y=11</a></p>
<p>check a cardiothoracic surgeon out....could be making $555,000 and thats not the end of the curve. This is Toledo, Ohio...the middle of nowhere lol...(well not really but I like to poke fun of my hometown). Check out places like San Francisco and NYC, those are higher....</p>
<p>Is it weird that I all of a sudden find medicine a much less noble calling?</p>
<p>OK, so I see the correlation between tough science courses and better MCAT scores.</p>
<p>But what about a school with an tough core ciriculum?</p>
<p>My son really loves University of Chicago, but he's getting scared off because he's thinking Med School.</p>
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This is also why i am vehemently against these 7 yr programs since they only shave off 1 year of school yet you commit to something so drastic and life altering at such a young naive age that there is no way you are mature enough to make such a decision....especially since most kids are so sheltered in HS at least in college you get a glipse of the real world before deciding that you want to go into medicine.
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<p>The real benefit of these 7 year combined programs is not that they shave 1 year off. I agree that that's not a particularly large benefit. No, the real benefit is that it GUARANTEES your admission to med-school, provided you stay eligible in the program. That, my friend, is priceless. Again, I would remind the readers here that half of all premeds who apply to med-school get rejected by every single med-school they apply to. And that's just talking about those who apply. Plenty of other people don't even apply because they know they won't get in. I am quite sure that plenty of these people who didn't get in anywhere or didn't even apply because they know they won't get in anywhere would have been better off by entering one of these combined programs.</p>
<p>I agree that it is difficult for high school kids to know whether they really want to be doctors. But you should keep in mind that you don't HAVE to complete the 7 year program. Almost all of these programs give you a method of opting out. So if you're in such a program program and you find out you don't want to be a doctor, you can just get a regular bachelor's degree in 3 or 4 years and then move on with your life. Or, in the worst case scenario, you can just transfer to an entirely different school. The point is, you're not locked into the program. If you find out that being a doctor is not for you, you can leave the program.</p>
<p>Hence, these combined programs give you the value of an OPTION. It gives you the OPTION, but not the OBLIGATION, of going to medical school. Basic economic theory dictates that all options have value. There is no such thing as an option that has negative value. An option can only help you, it can't hurt you.</p>
<p>I think what you mean to say is that some students should not be turning down an admission to a highly prestigious school in return for a combined program. However, some of these combined programs are at prestigious schools. For example, the Northwestern HPME program. So you can get that guaranteed option AND a prestigious undergrad degree. And, like I said, if you decide that you don't want to be a doctor, you can just quit the program and get a regular Northwestern undergrad degree. </p>
<p>Bottom line is, I don't see any downside to these combined programs.</p>
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nah, i dont wanna be a professor, if i were to teach, id enjoy it at the high school level so much, but yes shraf, teachers do make 25,000 dollars a year what r u talkkng about...maybe public schools are a bit higher but the 1ns at the school i would teach which would i would wanna be at my high school, since its a catholic private, they get paid like avg 20-25 grand...its a shame really cause i think teaching is just as great as medicine
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<p>I have to agree with some of the other people and ask, why are you presuming that you have to teach in a catholic private school? The majority of teachers are public school teachers. Public school teachers make significantly more than 20-25k a year. The numbers that bluedevil and others have stated for public school teachers are about right - they make about 40-50k a year on average. Let's not also forget that they get the whole summer off. Perhaps the best part is that they get tenure after a few years of working, which effectively makes them unfireable. Basically, as a tenured teacher, you either have to be caught in an inappropriate relationship with a student, or be caught stealing money to be fired. If you're a mediocre, lazy teacher, as long as you are still doing the bare minimum of work, you can't be fired because of tenure protection. Contrast that with what happens in the private sector, where you can be the best employee and STILL get fired. Heck, there are certain private sector companies in which being the best employee might actually make you the most likely to be fired, because your being so good threatens the managers there, in that they become afraid that you're so good that you will take their jobs and/or that you're making everybody else in the company look bad, so your coworkers have an incentive to set you up to be fired.</p>
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400,000 to 60,000??? ...check a cardiothoracic surgeon out....could be making $555,000 and thats not the end of the curve.
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<p>Look, the truth is, most doctors will not make 400k or 555k or any of these super-high salaries. Only certain specialties can make this kind of money. It should be pointed out that you are not 'free' to choose whatever specialty you want. Many of the high-paying specialties are highly competitive to enter. Basically, every new med-school graduate has to 'match' with a residency, where you list the residency positions that you want to go to, and the teaching hospitals in turn rank the candidates, according to things like their clinical performance reviews, USMLE scores, med-school grades, interviews, etc. So you can't just "decide" one fine day that you want to be a cardiothoracic surgeon or a plastic surgeon or whatever it is, and then simply expect to get it just "like that". You may or may not get it. You might end up with one of the low-paid specialties. </p>
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I think all teachers should be making at least 100,000 a year regardless of what level...if not 100 grand maybe 80,000 </p>
<p>and besides THAT point (for cryin out loud) you know as well as i do that teachers dont get the respect they deserve, financially and probably just in general 2...im just sayin
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<p>I would point out that many of the current teachers do not deserve 100k or 80k. Heck, I would say that many of the current teachers do not even deserve the salary that they are making now. Let's face it. Many current teachers aren't very good. Many of them barely graduated from mediocre no-name colleges and are not particularly bright or hard-working. </p>
<p>I'll put it to you this way. The starting salary for new teachers in the state of California is about 32k a year. There are plenty of graduates from an elite school like Berkeley who don't make 32k a year. Again, let's also keep in mind that these teachers get the whole summer off, whereas other people don't. So you can get a job where you don't have to work during the summer, get tenure after 2 years (according to California law), and still make more money than many graduates of the best schools get, and that's a very sweet deal.</p>
<p>I think if teacher salaries should be raised to 80k or 100k ,then a commensurate strategy should be used to eliminate all of the bad teachers. At the same time, it should be extremely difficult to become a good teacher. Basically, only the very best candidates should be hired - i.e. those who were superstars in college.</p>
<p>1) I'm not saying I have to. I'm saying I would WANT to because I loved my HS and if i was a teacher I would definitely want to go back there in the future</p>
<p>2) I know that most won't be making that much, I was just making a slight point, geez</p>
<p>3) 50,000 is nothing though seriously...i mean if your making 100,000, how much of that goes to taxes, bills, etc? I agree a lot of teachers aren't good, but yea ur right the really good teachers should be paid more</p>
<p>btw somone answer SBDad's question instead of criticizing every comment I make lol</p>
<p>I went ahead and PMed him, since I have some experience with Chicago. Good call, though, umar.</p>