Convince me to go to WashU over Princeton!

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington University in St. Louis
1

I’ve been accepted to both Princeton and WashU so far, and both are the top on my list as far as “dream schools” go. I am leaning towards WashU at the moment, but need some more pushing in order to really feel 100% about making a decision. Here’s the background on my feelings on the schools and what I’m looking for out of a college basically in pro/con form. I have not visited Princeton yet and plan to several times before ultimately making a decision, so this is how I feel about both schools with the information I have on both. Please read my commentary and fill me in with any information about both schools you think I should consider in making a decision!

Biographical information:
-Upstate NY African-American male interested in Earth Science.
-Mom has 0 EFC at either school (Princeton COA is $1100 summer earnings+ $2900 work study, both of which are replaceable with outside scholarships; WashU is $2200 work study only, which is also replaceable with outside scholarships.)
-Both schools have said I would be allowed to use outside scholarship money on a new computer; also, both schools have said they would increase my grant award to cover music lessons (I’m a vocalist.)
-Future career is tentatively a high school teacher or college professor in the physical sciences, so graduate school is a definite.

Pro/Con Comparison:

TRAVEL:

  • Princeton is 5 hours by car, which is how I would get there and back at the beginning/end of the year to move my stuff. To come home on breaks I would take the train for around $150 round trip, which averages around 7 hours in travel time (crazy that it’s longer than driving in my opinion.)
    -WashU: the tentative plan my mom has right now regarding WashU would be for her to rent an SUV and pack it full with my stuff and drive it there at the beginning of the year, and then to drop off the car there and fly back. I would fly home for breaks and at the end of the year. Flights are ~$340 from STL to the nearest (and only viable) airport to my house during normal travel times and ~$600 at peak travel times. Total travel time from house to airport to campus: ~8 hours.
    -Cost of travel is not a problem. I see travel to both colleges as being of equal difficulty.

ACADEMICS:

-Princeton is obviously Princeton and has a strong Geoscience department, as well as other offerings to complement my studies. It offers several field trips to locales such as Yosemite, The Everglades, Grand Canyon, and other sites of geological interest fully paid for by the university. Strong research opportunities. Has a track in Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences which is the route I think I will pursue.
-WashU overall does not have the same reputation as Princeton academically but is certainly up and coming and is more than respected in academia. The Earth and Planetary Science program is one of the strongest at the university. Very few paid field trips related to the major, but I would probably be part of the Pathfinder program which would give me additional free study trips to Death Valley and Hawaii. Strong research opportunities. Has more generalized geology tracks which are still suitable for my career interests but not as compelling as Oceanic and Atmospheric Science.
-Both schools have small Earth Science departments meaning that I will get ample attention from professors, small class sizes, and research opportunities that would not normally be afforded to me if I was to major in, say, Physics or Chemistry at either school.
-It’s difficult to study abroad as an Earth Science major as not many schools offer programs in English, and my Spanish is unlikely to be up to par for study abroad. Both schools offer Earth Science study abroad programs in New Zealand and Australia, so I will probably end up in one of those places. Both schools cover study abroad expenses.
-Not too informed on the quality of Princeton advising, but I know WashU’s advising is legendary. As a prospective Pathfinder and probable Ervin (kind of already selected) and possible Danforth, I could potentially have more advisers than I would know what to do with.
-Neither school has teaching certification or an MA in teaching.

MUSIC:

-WashU’s student population seems to be much more sports-oriented than music-oriented, which is the school’s sole turnoff for me. In addition, the music lessons take place at the other campus and one must take the bus to get there, which is far from ideal. Princeton has very good music opportunities in the university itself and with the Westminster Choir College. I would LOVE for someone to talk to me about their experiences with classical music at WashU, particularly involving piano accompanying and classical voice.

SOCIAL LIFE:

-I envision myself as being a weekend partier, and frats and drinking don’t faze me. I’m not looking to go out every night of the week. I know that WashU has a reputation of being extremely fun, and that appeals to me. When I visited, the campus seemed alive and vibrant at all moments, especially on a Friday night. I would like to go to a college where the social scene is on campus/associated with the campus, and while I could afford to spend hundreds of dollars a month in the city, that is not the ideal scenario. How much of WashU’s social scene involves students running off into the city and heavily spending on activities? I like seeing plays and seeing sports games and could afford to drop money on those twice a month or so, spending gratuitously on shopping and restaurants is a no for me.
-I am not a self-segregator and am not necessarily looking for an African-American community because I didn’t grow up with one. However, I’m not sure how dicey the race situation is in Saint Louis right now/will be the next four years so I’m trying to stay cognizant of that. Not sure or too worried about ethnic fit at Princeton.
-Dining at WashU is A++++++. Princeton’s eating clubs make me raise my eyebrows.
-Dorms at Washu are A++++++++++, especially the modern suites. I’ve heard Princeton’s dorms need some renovations.
-I like the idea of a medium sized school, and both fit the bill.
-WashU’s Pathfinder/Danforth/Ervin programs would give me great opportunities to make friends and network.

So this is what I have so far! Please tell me more about WashU. If I had to make the choice about colleges today I would probably pick WashU, but I need to know even more. Thank you in advance!

2

Why don’t you plan on attending accepted student visits at both schools? No reason not to collect info on both, but keep an open mind until you have done this. You can learn a lot by spending 24 hours on the campus of a college – my kid completely changed her mind after accepted visits, even though she had visited each college for a day prior to applying and attended classes, etc. And you likely will have more acceptances in the RD pool. Pick your top 3 choices once you know where you are in, visit again at those, then decide. Keep an open mind until then.

3

How were you accepted to an SCEA school as well as an ED school.

The rules for SCEA don’t allow you to apply to an ED school.

An ED school also requires you to accept or drop your admisssion quickly.

4

@texaspg I got accepted to Princeton SCEA and applied to WashU RD but got a very very very early write from them. They like me.

5

@RFAtoIVY Interesting that they are doing likelies for RD before they even completed their RD application deadline on 15th. Congratulations to you.

I am assuming if you applied to WashU, you applied to other schools also for RD round. If you did, you should be in no hurry to decide since deadline is May 1st for all schools if no ED is involved.

Wait for admitted days, visit schools.

6

Wow – you should be so excited that you already have two great options! Like others said, I would wait until the admitted days to visit both of the schools. The only thing I would contest is the statement “WashU’s student population seems to be much more sports-oriented than music-oriented, which is the school’s sole turnoff for me.” As far as I can tell, WashU is not sports-oriented at all. Sure, they have DIII sports, but it’s not a priority for kids to go to games and such, and so I would imagine that the music program is bigger. The acapella certainly is.

Good luck with your decision!!

7

Go to Princeton.

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You’re in luck, RFAtoIVY! WashU does have an education department. They offer an MAT and MAEd, along with an option to get certified as an undergrad with subject area majors in earth and planetary sciences, chemistry and physics.

9

My son was accepted ED to Wash U. It is a great school and you can’t go wrong with either of your choices. My son knew Wash U was the place for him on the first visit. Once you visit Princeton you will be in a much better position to decide. Good luck and congrats.

10

Please see what @turndown4college said: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/washington-university-st-louis/1705120-early-decision-2019.html#latest

11-09-2014 at 7:19 pm
Okay so here’s my reasoning (as best I can explain it):

I’m looking to go into pre-med, and Wash U has one of the best pre-med curriculum’s in the country and is very renowned by medical schools across the country for this. Additionally, it’s overall academics are very strong and the fact that you aren’t committed to one college within the university allows me the flexibility to easily explore my options. There’s also an unbelievable amount of advisors that your given as an undergrad, way more than you would think that you need, so you have the constant support of the faculty there to guide you when you’re lost. Connecting to that, when I visited there and had my info session, I really got the sense that the professors really see you as more than a number and are open to making close relationships with their students to create a more personalized learning for each student, which is something really important that I look for in a school. So there are my reasons for the academic side of things.

In terms of the people, they’re insanely nice. One thing that I love is that the people on campus have a “we’re all in this together” mentality rather than a “me vs. you” mentality, which prevents the presence of a competitive environment. Everyone is willing to help everyone even if it means they might be giving up their own studying time or whatever it may be. You just never feel like you’re alone and that you don’t have to compete against those around you. Having been in a high school for the past 4 years where everything’s about doing better than the person next to you, that is something that will be a nice change. Also, it’s a very big work hard/play hard kind of university. Yes, people study their butts off during the week and even on the weekends sometimes. However, when they get the opportunity to party and have a good time, they do. There’s frat parties almost every weekend and the alcohol policy in the dorms is really chill, so there’s always room to sit back and take a break from the stress.

Have you visited campus? I feel like that’s a really good way to get a sense of how you feel that you would fit in at the school. When I stepped onto the campus, I just got that indescribable feeling that this is the place that I belong. I don’t know how else to describe it besides the fact that I just kind of felt like I was home. I felt comfortable and relaxed even while being in a collegiate environment.

Sorry I kind of wrote you an essay haha. I’m just really passionate about the school as you can probably tell. I’m hoping for the best. I hope that this helped in some way and if you have any other questions just let me know.

11

Congratulations! Ultimately the decision here needs to be the school where you are going to be happy on a day to day basis, and that is not always going to be based on objective criteria. Comb through the archives on CC and you will see many posts where kids say nothing more than “I just KNEW ABC College was the place for me when I visited.” So, I agree with the other posters who recommend making visits. Do so during a period when school is in session and take in as much of a normal day as you can. My D’s good friend at Wash U is from back east and has a sister at Princeton. Their dad is a Princeton alum. Both girls are thrilled with their individual decisions and so is dad. It’s not always the measurables.

12

RFAtoIVY “WashU’s student population seems to be much more sports-oriented than music-oriented, which is the school’s sole turnoff for me.”
I cannot totally agree with this…WashU is probably more music oriented than sports oriented. Or arts oriented vice sports oriented. They have numerous accappella groups, dance groups, ethnic organizations, orchestra, chorus, and they bring in bands and performers all the time. The Music Bldg, although separate from the Danforth Campus, is only a 10 minute walk and located next to the Delmar Loop. They offer music and instrument lessons with expenses covered to those who have scholarships.

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^I’m fairly certain that more people go to Stypes a cappella concerts than football games. Entirely serious here.

14

Just a question: Why would you choose to go to any of these schools when you plan on being a high school teacher? Sorry if this offends, but it seems like it would be a waste of an education to go to such a prestigious school with access to unlimited resources for research, just to become a high school teacher.

15

My daughter spent the summer at Princeton, not for school but for another program. It is such a beautiful campus and area. It was really hard taking her on college visits after that. Nothing could compare. You really owe it to yourself to go and visit. Sorry I know Washington U is a good school but quite frankly a lot of other people don’t. Go to Princeton!!!

16

@Calicash, why should you have a problem if RFAtoIvy goes to Princeton or WashU to become a teacher? First, he has the credentials to go anywhere that accepts him.

Second, my DD Pre-Calc teacher graduated from Yale. He worked on Wall Street and later became a teacher. His class was definately not your normal HS Pre-Cal. My DD has another teacher who graduated from Harvard. He worked at NIH and later transitioned to his new career teaching Foresnic Science. He’s the most popular and best teacher in the school. The students love him. He’s bright, intelligent, and changing more lives as a teacher. I’m sure he could use his skills in another profession but I’m greatful that he choose to become a “Harvard educated high school teacher”. Her IB Environmental teacher graduated from WashU after working in the area of "Environmental Economics. I never heard of Environmental Economics but through her initial work she transitioned to her second career as an IB Environmental teacher. RFA may become a teacher but he may also follow other career options.

17

I’m going to give you the pessimistic, worry-wart, mom advice.

Emergencies at college can and do happen. Students sometimes get sick or injured or develop stress/mental/emotional issues. Close family members become ill or pass away requiring a trip home. Travel can become burdensome.

If Mom has zero EFC, her ability to fly to you if needed may be limited. All things being equal (which they are not), I would say the closer choice is better. I’m not saying go to the local SUNY. This is Princeton!

18

RFAtoIVY - I am a WUSTL undergrad in epsci and also a pathfinder, so I can speak to a few of your interests. I also happened to look pretty closely at Princeton back when I applied to schools and know several grads/undergrads at Princeton. EPS is very strong here, particularly in planetary science and geochemistry and probably less so in oceanography, though many people go the route that you look to be taking and end up at MIT Woods Hole joint program, etc. for grad school. It looks like the financial situation at both schools is around the same, so I would say this:

If you are confident that you will be in the Pathfinder program (i.e. you have talked to Ray Arvidson and he has said that you will be in the program), go to WashU. You will be very well connected and the vast majority of students in the program go on to prestigious programs (see the alumni list on the website). In addition to the department trips offered by pathfinder, juniors and seniors in epsci can take a class on regional geology that involves a field trip…sometimes to Italy, sometimes to Scotland. There is also a department field trip every year that I’ve never been on. Several undergrads also do research with eps faculty, who typically have ample funding for trips to conferences like AGU. Very strong research opportunities here - I’m sure it is the same for Princeton. So there are ample opportunities for travel if that suits you. I have probably gone on about 20 trips through the department.

Princeton also has a great department with loads of opportunities and great people. You really can’t go wrong with either school. PM me if you have any questions.

19

One thing I looked for when I applied is which schools have strong programs in subjects that would complement my intended major. IE, JHU’s medical program can complement my education in math by providing me with fantastic career options. CMU would provide me with the best CS program in the world, as a result, my two favourites are JHU and CMU. Similarly, I think you should choose schools based on this idea, in which case, I would go to Princeton( my personal case, look at yours)

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@manas1997 I would say the most important thing is FIT. I know of someone that got accepted to CMU CS program and when he visited he disliked it immensely. He couldn’t handle their culture and he knew he couldn’t be happy there. There are many good schools that offer CS. We’ve been advised to pick the school that makes you happy. After all they say happy students are usually successful. If you aren’t happy or if you are miserable, you won’t be as motivated to study. I think the real trick is finding the school that fits you.