<p>My middle S is a HS senior. His grades are not great and he had decided he was going to go to a community college. This was fine with us, as we knew he would likely not do well in a 4-yr university setting. </p>
<p>Now he is talking about doing an internship instead. I'm trying to nudge him in the direction of at least trying CC for a quarter, see how it goes, etc. </p>
<p>One of my biggest problems is that I went back to school about 5 years ago and finished my B.A. Since then, I have had 3 really bad jobs (like just above minimum wage) and I'm currently unemployed. My S is very much aware of this, so I'm sure in his mind he's thinking "yeah, look how much your degree has helped you." Although he's never come right out and said this, I would certainly be thinking that if I were him. </p>
<p>I'm not sure what advice I'm looking for, other than what should I say to rebutt that argument if he brings it up? Or even if he doesn't.</p>
<p>Is it possible that not going to college right now would be a good thing for him? It might take a year or two out in the big swim for him to realize on his own that he needs an education. And I would tell him that the minute he's out of of high school (okay, give him a month or two), he pays for himself.</p>
<p>I see nothing wrong with high school graduates taking a year off before college. I actually think it's a very smart idea, if they do something worthwhile with that time. That's not encouraged so much in this country, though I'm not sure why. I guess the fear is that you'll never go. Another year or two, as the above poster stated, would not only add maturity, but would also give him some independence and purpose. Often, attending a community college can leave a student with feeling like they're getting more of the same (high school). An internship and more time might also steer him into a clearer direction of what he'd like to study and what career he might want in 10 years time.</p>
<p>Hmm. Older S -- a smart guy who always hated school -- insisted on going off to college even though H and I suggested that he do an internship first. He went to college, passionately pursued his fave EC (school paper) and didn't go to class. He flunked out, and is now almost 24, still hasn't gone back to college. He lives far away, supporting himself in an easy office job. Somehow, it still hasn't gotten through to him about the importance of college despite having grown up with 2 parents who were college profs.</p>
<p>Younger S was a smart kid who loved school, but had mediocre grades due to laziness, perfectionism and procrastination. He planned to go to college, but as a senior, didn't get around to applying.</p>
<p>After missing the deadlines for all schools that interested him, he applied to Americorps, and was accepted to volunteer (for a stipend) locally. His fave EC has always been community service, so this was a fulltime position that was perfect for him.</p>
<p>During his one year living at home (and paying rent -- our rules!), he did well with Americorps. It provided him with excellent training and supervision, and also gave him the same responsibilities he'd have as an adult professional: representing the organization at meetings; running and developing programs; handling a budget; making monthly reports. </p>
<p>Consequently, he learned that the real world, not just high school, requires one to be organized and to write in a timely fashion. He also learned much more about what he loves doing and doesn't love doing, so when he entered an out of town college this fall, he was organized, and mature enough to avoid the pitfalls that many freshmen fall into. His grades have been great, and he also has been deeply involved in some nice ECs.</p>
<p>Check out the Americorps web sites and see if their programs may be appropriate for your S.</p>
<p>Oh, wait. I have an easy rebuttal. Assuming you're the mom (from your screenname) but it's so even if you're the Dad:</p>
<p>a middle-aged person who returns for a B.A. and then onto the job market is a sitting duck to be given low-paying opportunities. A young person with a new B.A. is assumed to be healthy, flexible, trainable. He can anticipate more "play" from the job market after his B.A. at age 20-something than you are experiencing at your age and lifestage.</p>
<p>That said, you should be admired and applauded for going back for your degree! I'm just trying to make a disconnect in your S's mind over the "what good did YOUR B.A. do for you, Ma?" </p>
<p>Actually, I'm a bit concerned about someone with motivation issues stepping away completely from schooling. Could he not combine, and take a part-time internship and 2 community college courses next year?</p>
<p>I'm recalling a friend of mine whose son made no plan for the post-h.s. year and watched all of his friends waltz off to colleges. For the next year, she said, he slept on everyone else's couch and glommed up whatever friendship he could find among sibs of his former friends, but he was lonely. The following year, he enlisted in the Army and went to Afghanistan, just longing for some structure in his life. That's where he got a handle on some work-related training. I'm not suggesting it; I'm describing how confusing it was for him and his family that he had no strong plan for post-h.s.</p>
<p>Some of these internships turn out to be good, but others wash out...and then where is he? So that's why I suggest: part-time internship and two CC courses. Just a thought.</p>
<p>I think an internship makes a lot of sense. You might suggest that he take one course at the CC in addition, ideally in a subject he's very interested in. That would keep him in the school mindset while not forcing him to be a full-time student.</p>
<p>The biggest issue we faced w/ this decision was medical insurance for this student. This is something to be aware of during the decision making process.</p>
<p>This is probably not a great place to discuss alternatives to college. Outside of CC, there are indeed many people who have happy lives without going to college. Many also do well financially. Others graduate from high school (or not) and may work and then return to improve their education. In my area, plumbers, auto mechanics and many other tradesmen make a lot of money.</p>
<p>"Internship" doesn't make sense to me because I doubt that a high school graduate will be able to get a fulltime internship. Also what some high school students call "summer internships" are really summers twiddling their thumbs for free at their parents' and family friends' businesses. That's not a good way for anyone to learn about the work world.</p>
<p>Getting fulltime employment or doing Americorps fulltime, though does seem like a real possibility. </p>
<p>Whether he's working with Americorps or working fulltime as a cashier or something similar, I suggest that you also require your S to pay rent because that would allow him to see just how much he'd be able to afford without a college degree or advanced vocational training.</p>
<p>We required our S to pay $50 a week out of his Americorps stipend. He had wanted to live in an apartment, and I told him that would be fine -- if he paid for it. After he checked out the classifieds, though, he realized that he could live in the kind of dump his stipend would cover or he could continue to live at home. </p>
<p>I don't suggest allowing your S to live at home rent free while doing an unpaid or paid job. He'll learn about what it means to be an adult by having to cover his expenses.</p>
<p>Our health insurance continued to cover S while he was in Americorps. I believe he also could have gotten insurance through them.</p>
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This is probably not a great place to discuss alternatives to college. Outside of CC, there are indeed many people who have happy lives without going to college. Many also do well financially. Others graduate from high school (or not) and may work and then return to improve their education. In my area, plumbers, auto mechanics and many other tradesmen make a lot of money.
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<p>I have a friend who didn't finish college and started a housecleaning business. She makes more money than a lot of folks I know who have Master's degrees.</p>
<p>The only thing is she doesn't want her whole life to involve cleaning houses, and I can understand that. That's a reason to go to school.</p>
<p>While I am a firm believer in education, not only for its own sake, but for the opportunities it can open for you, I also realize that college is not for all people. For some kids, they are simply not ready and a gap year is a good idea, doing something worthwhile and/or working. For others, college may never be right for them. </p>
<p>As much as I can see wanting your son to go to college (again, I truly would feel that way too), it may not be right for him now or possibly ever. What I would want to establish with him is a PLAN. Drifting with no plan would not be OK. Living in your house and not being responsible for living expenses (if not in school) would not be OK. I'd try to see what interested him and talk about possible steps he could take toward that. For instance, a trade school program may be of interest. CC may not. </p>
<p>Example....I ran into a mom of a boy my kids went to HS with. The older D was a very good student and went off to the state U and is now a middle school teacher. Success story. Son starts out at a state college (not the flagship U) and after a year, I run into his mom and she said he dropped out of college. She looked very disappointed as I know she wanted him to get a college degree. However, he was apprenticing to become a plumber (or it may have been electrician?) and got an apartment with a friend and was supporting himself. And ya know, I feel that while this may not have been his mom's hope for him, the fact is that college was not the place for him and he found another pursuit and was getting trained and was working toward a career and nothing wrong with that. He was not drifting aimlessly. He had a plan and he had to support himself. His parents are supportive types. Frankly, some jobs like plumbers pay decently.</p>
<p>So, I would talk with your son about alternate plans for working toward a career goal and what it would take to get there and his responsibility in supporting himself financially. Just getting a menial job with no plan for the future would not be a good plan. A gap year with plans for later college when he was ready to take it on might be a path. He could do something like Americorps for a year. But maybe formal schooling is not his thing. There are careers that don't require a degree, even though obviously a college degree opens more doors. But maybe he can train in a certain field (ie., car mechanics?). I would look into that with him and have him perhaps see a career counselor in discussing steps to be taken to an alternate goal other than college. But a plan would be a must.</p>
<p>I have told both of mine several times, and its still three years away for the oldest -- college or start and own a small business. No other options. No in between. I don't care if the business fails or succeeds. Either way it's the best education a person can get, and would be the most instructive year of their life.</p>
<p>This internship does provide housing, so the "go to school or pay rent" debate is a non-issue. And it's doing something he really loves. I suppose the worst that could happen is he does it a while, and is either offered employment with the organization as a result, or decides he doesn't like it and goes on to school. </p>
<p>BTW, I totally agree that there are people out there who can make very good livings without going to school. Most plumbers, carpenters, etc I know are paid very well.</p>
<p>Some people are just not the college type, and that is just fine...as a W of a contractor who basically learned as he went, and is very happy, I see no problem with people putting off college, so long as they are productive members of society....and think of it this way, the INTERNSHIP can be his "education" </p>
<p>And at the internship place, who wants to bet they suggest this class or that class to get a certificate in the area he loves? being around other motivate people who appreciate your son is just as important to his own motivations if he just can't envision himself sitting in a classroom another 4 years right now</p>
<p>Friends of ours have a D at Harvard and a son with no interest in college, more than 2 years post-hs graduation. His mother insisted he apply to colleges and he did and was accepted to several, but this did not change his mind. He's working a few different jobs to support himself, living with his GF and trying to get a band together. He flat-out is not interested in college right now and it would be a waste of his time and his parents' money. He may very well find a focus at some point that prompts him to go to college. By then he might even be old enough to be treated at an independent adult for FA. Or he may do fine without ever going to college.</p>
<p>I'm glad my son wanted to go because it feels like a "safer" and "easier" environment in which to do some more growing up (as well as learning within a community of learners). But if he hadn't wanted to go, I'd have bitten my tongue (OUCH!) and helped him come up with a constructive alternative.</p>
<p>bethie....you mention the other thing I meant to also say....it is a waste of money to send a child to college who does not want to go. He can go later when he is motivated and wanting to go. Or, he may never been interested in that and thus, needs to come up with a constructive alternative. Paying for college when your kid has no interest, seems a waste.</p>
<p>in the past, there were ways young people got an education, apprenticships....work for a plumber, builder, and those are the people that make your lives easier</p>
<p>then there are those that fall into jobs, and do well...I don't know what kind of education my trash pickerupper guys have, but god bless em...or truck driver, or the myriad of other people who perform essential jobs</p>
<p>And if the OPs S internship pays for housing, etc, that is great....not clear what field he is into, but he found a program, is getting it organized, etc...that is more then lots of people do</p>
<p>And then there are those of us who had the great idea of taking a year off between high school and college to save up money for college. It took me an entire year just to get a steady job and then was afraid to quit it and never did get enough money saved for many years. After all that, I stayed with the job I hated rather than try college because I felt too old for college in my twenties.</p>