Cornell and SUNY

<p>A friend and former classmate of mine just forwarded me a response from SUNY concerning the relationship between Cornell and SUNY. I asked him about it when I read some stuff on this board that did not sound familiar, and he went and asked them. I will excerpt their response.</p>

<p>"The following is an excerpt from SUNY's Master Plan: </p>

<p>"Statutory/Contract Colleges - The five partnership colleges, also known as statutory or contract colleges, round out the doctoral sector. These colleges are not directly operated by the State University, but are operated by their host institutions, subject to the general supervision and coordination of State University Trustees [Education Law §355(1)(a)], who also approve the appointment of the head of each college by the governing board of its respective private institution [Education Law §355(1) (e)].</p>

<p>Included in this category are four colleges affiliated with Cornell University, the Colleges of Agriculture and Life Sciences, Human Ecology, Veterinary Medicine, and the School of Industrial and Labor Relations; and a fifth institution, the New York State College of Ceramics, is affiliated with Alfred University (see Education Law, Article 123). Each partnership college enjoys the benefits of being part of the State University of New York while being connected to, and located at, a private university. These colleges are exemplars of productive public-private partnerships."</p>

<p>These five campuses are part of SUNY and it is appropriate for us to list them as such on our website, in our application viewbook, etc. If you search for "SUNY" on the Cornell website, you will find several references to SUNY and the State University of New York."</p>

<p>Haha, they are so lame.</p>

<p>ugh, SUNY is just retarded. </p>

<p>I still dont see the true connection (besides money) to SUNY. How come we dont get degrees that say SUNY??? </p>

<p>The article even says that the schools are not operated by SUNY. Proves that "SUNY Cornell" does not exist. </p>

<p>"Each partnership college enjoys the benefits of being part of the State University of New York" ----> the only benefit is money. Although SUNY is retarded, i must say i do enjoy the cheaper tuition.</p>

<p>Cornell should really consider fully privatizing.</p>

<p>fudgemaster - there's been rumors that it may happen.</p>

<p>thanks moneday for reminding us, i don't get ur perogative, u come on these boards, and are always speaking about this, like what is ur objective, as a 50 year old, what is your drive to always mention these findings of your's. It is like you are trying to make a profound point but you aren't clearly articulating it.</p>

<p>What is it? You don't like this state partnership? You do? or indifferent?</p>

<p>lol, bball87. Perhaps this is what happens to Ccers who took the admissions game too seriously once they get older</p>

<p>The other contract college, operated pursuant to the same education law statute, is the New York State College of Ceramics at Alfred U.</p>

<p>The following is an excerpt from an appeals court decision in a case involving this college:</p>

<p>"While even as to the CC students the President and the Dean of Students may lack the symbolic tie with the state furnished by the deputy sheriff's badge in Griffin v. Maryland, supra, or the public building in Burton v. Wilmington Parking Authority, supra, the students of the New York State College of Ceramics can properly regard themselves as receiving a public education 8 and entitled to be treated by those in charge in the same way as their counterparts in other portions of the State University. If the State wanted Alfred's policy on demonstrations changed for the CC students, mere order of the State University trustees would suffice, Education Law 355(1)(a), and(2)(b); no general legislation would be needed, as it would be if the State desired to control the policy for other students. However one characterizes Alfred's relationship to the State with respect to the New York State College of Ceramics, it is much closer than that of an independent contractor. The State furnishes the land, buildings and equipment; it meets and evidently expects to continue to meet the entire budget; it requires that all receipts be credited against that budget, Education Law 6102; and in the last analysis it can tell Alfred not simply what to do but how to do it. The confiding of certain duties to private individuals no more insulates the State under these circumstances than in Kerr v. Enoch Pratt Free Library, supra. While it may well be that the principle of Burton v. Wilmington Parking Authority would not require a finding of state action or, in any event, of unconstitutional state action if the coffee shop involved in that case dismissed a waitress without notice and hearing or refused to rent a private dining room to the local branch of the Communist Party, the State's relation to the New York State College of Ceramices goes far beyond that of landlord and tenant. The control of these student protests by the President and the Dean of Students on behalf of the State is an instance of positive state involvement, whether obvious or not. "</p>

<p>So, sorry for the irrelevancies of this specific case, but the point as I read this is that the court, in this case anyway, found that the relationship between SUNY and the contract college at Alfred is not that remote, legally at least.</p>

<p>Just trying to set the record straight, for the benefit of people who want the facts.</p>

<p>[Not that it's all that clear now anyway; sort of a confusing relationship.]</p>

<p>SUNY looks to have a type of legal relationship. </p>

<p>I'm sure, somehow or someway, the nimrods at SUNY could thrust their big fat asses into the operations of the contract colleges at Cornell.</p>

<p>But, Cornell could just as easily sever the relationship. This would mean that SUNy could no longer ride along on Cornell's prestige (and no longer put "Cornell" in their viewbook! oh my!!). I think it's because of this that SUNY stays out of the way Cornell runs its school. Cornell does it best, anyways.</p>

<p>Here's an excerpt from a Memorandum of Understanding between Alfred and SUNY, in a section subtitled "Campus role within SUNY system" :</p>

<p>"The New York State College of Ceramics at Alfred University (“College”) was created by an act of the New York State Legislature, signed into law by Governor Theodore Roosevelt in1900. It was then and remains today a distinctive institution—a state-supported college that is by statute (supplemented by additional legislation, regulations, and contractual arrangements) part of, and operated by, Alfred University "under the jurisdiction and control of the State University trustees" (New York Education Law Article 123)."</p>

<p>To monydad- from a "not so much monymom". I was never too concerned what the SUNY/Cornell relationship was-- though prior research on the subject showed a connection with the Morrell Land Grant Act. But there really are a lot of NY parents who really appreciate the lower tuition. And for some Cornell students, if this lower tuition was not in effect, some of these kids would be at SUNY Binghamton. We're not all Monydads & moms.
Agrophobic- I just re-read your post #7- that was pretty funny.</p>

<p>Other people have been concerned, or questioned it anyway on this board, and responses were given; I thought it would be useful to have a thread that set out the actual state of the relationship, as a resource for interested people. If you are not one of them, go in peace.</p>

<p>I don't blame people for being enthusiastic about the lower tuition. I'm lobbying for SUNY Purchase for my own daughter. If this works I will greatly appreciate the lower tuition too; the "MONY" in my handle does not mean "money", it was actually an unintended coincidence.</p>

<p>Though I didn't attend one of the contract colleges, I was able to get a little something from my NY State Regents Scholarship, and I/ my parents appreciated it at the time.</p>

<p>I certainly have nothing against the contract colleges; some of the smartest people I met at Cornell attended them.</p>

<p>Monydad- the lower tuition at Cornell is still in the $17,000 range. It is not the SUNY tuition of under $5000. So I do not know if "lobbying Suny Purchase is going to result in the lower tuition cost that you are hoping for. Good luck.</p>

<p>^huh?^ If his daughter gets into SUNY Purchase, he will be paying $12k less than if his daughter was going to Cornell. Didn't you just prove his point? Did I just totally miss something?</p>

<p>the relationship between SUNY and Cornell is very complicated to say the least. Seems like nobody can create a clear and definitive answer. </p>

<p>I, for one, recognize the relationship between the two organizations, but I do not call Cornell CALS, ilr, or HumEc state schools. Here's why:</p>

<ul>
<li>NYS doesn't regulate what classes students have to take</li>
<li>NYS doesn't control admissions</li>
<li>NYS doesn't fully fund a student's tution (in fact, they dont even cover half)</li>
<li>Cornell decides which teachers to hire and which deans to elect</li>
<li>Cornell has administrative power over most everything</li>
<li>the degree is granted from "Cornell University"</li>
<li>Students in the contract colleges take classes all over the university at no extra charge</li>
<li>Students apply only to Cornell ... not to the main SUNY application processing center</li>
<li>From the OP: These colleges are not directly operated by the State University, but are operated by their host institutions.</li>
</ul>

<p>...I probably have a bunch more reasons under my sleeve, but i'm sleep deprived and it's hard to think. Students in the contract colleges are not by any means "lesser" than those in the endowed colleges. I am proud to be an ilr student before a Cornell student. I also greatly appreciate my reduced tuition: it is because of the break that I will graduate with zero loans and zero debt. Marvelous!</p>

<p>What gets to me is that 33% of students here are from NYS. I doubt that the admissions commitees will be cherry picking their applicants when they have to accept a certain number of New Yorkers.</p>

<p>they no longer have to accept a certain number of new yorkers. The large % of students from NY is a reflection of the fact that the contract colleges get significanly more apps from NY than do the other colleges.</p>

<p>Check out the Charter of the University

[quote]
CHARTER OF CORNELL UNIVERSITY
AS AMENDED THROUGH MAY 22, 2002
The original Charter of Cornell University was granted by action of the New
York State Legislature, being Chapter 585 of the Laws of 1865. It became effective
April 27, 1865. As amended by further legislative enactment over the years, the University's
Charter now appears in the Consolidated New York Education Law as Article 115 thereof
(sections 5701 through 5716).
CONTENTS
Sec....................................................................................Page
5701 Cornell university continued...............................................2
5702 Objects and powers of the corporation................................2
5703 Trustees........................................................................2
5704 Trustees shall make reports; university subject to visitation of regents. 3
5705 Extent to which property may be held....................................3
5706 Restrictions on alienation of property.....................................3
5707 Extent of farm and grounds.................................................4
5708 Powers to police grounds and regulate traffic thereon..............4
5709 Special deputy sheriffs; powers and duties.............................5
5711 New York state college of veterinary medicine........................5
5712 New York state college of agriculture and life sciences.............6
5713 New York state agricultural experiment station.......................8
5714 New York state college of human ecology..............................9
5715 New York state school of industrial and labor relations............10
5716 Acquisition by the state of land and interests in land of Cornell.11
university upon which buildings have heretofore or may hereafter
be erected by the state.

[/quote]

<a href="http://www.cornell.edu/trustees/cornell_charter.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cornell.edu/trustees/cornell_charter.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Some people seem to forget that the completely private colleges in Cornell i.e. CAS, engineering etc., all offer need-based aid anyway. So, if the state-contract colleges were to turn all private, then overall, the students would not be getting any better or worse off. Some students who cannot afford $18,000 might actually be getting better deals.</p>