Cornell Dyson or UMICH Ross?

College Search & Selection
21

@lilskies post #5
From the Dyson School:

“What We Look For

The Dyson School admissions committee uses a holistic approach when reviewing applications. This means that all parts of your application are considered.

We look for students with high academic achievements in a rigorous curriculum. Our students have leadership and entrepreneurial qualities and take initiative.

We also look for students who share our ethos and vision: at Dyson, our business is a better world.

Strong Academics

Because we want to make sure you are prepared to handle the academic workload in Dyson, academic success is an important criterion. Have you taken the most rigorous courses available to you and performed well?

Standardized tests are important, but they are only one piece of the puzzle. We want to see that you have demonstrated success in math, science, and analytical courses that will prepare you for the rigorous academic environment at the Dyson School.

Leadership, Initiative, and Entrepreneurship

Our students are leaders, team players, creative thinkers, and self-starters. We want to see that you are involved in your community, and engaging in challenging opportunities while also creating opportunity for others.

Demonstrated Interest

In your supplemental essay, you should write thoughtfully about how you will fit into the Dyson program–academically, socially, and professionally.

What have you experienced that makes you excited about studying business at Dyson? What special qualities will make you stand out and thrive? What it is about our program in applied economics and management that excites you? We want students who share our passion for business and applied economics and are excited to be a part of our community.”

@momofsenior1 I agree that Cornell alumni presence in NYC is huge, over 50,000 strong. Plus there’s the Cornell Club for those extra opportunities for networking.

ETA: the new dean of Dyson is a former professor from Ross and Dean at UM

22

@lilskies: In answer to your question directed at me in post #17 above, I do not think that there is a clear choice between Dyson & Ross for a finance major even if targeting Wall Street investment banks.

Assuming that you are comfortable with the costs of attendance at both schools, then it becomes mostly a matter of personal fit.

It would be worthwhile to consider the opportunities at each school for double majoring.

23

@prezbucky: I think that Wall Street Investment Bank target schools top tier should include NYU-Stern & Cornell. In fact, NYU-Stern may place the most students of any of your listed schools. I have charts of actual placement numbers for a number of investment banks. If I locate them, I will post the results.

24

2018 placement by school at the top 10 Wall Street Investment Banks according to WSO:

  1. NYU

  2. Harvard

  3. Cornell

  4. Penn

  5. Columbia

  6. Texas

  7. UCal-Berkeley

  8. Chicago

  9. Michigan

  10. Virginia

  11. UNC

  12. UCLA

  13. Duke

  14. Boston College

  15. Yale

  16. Cambridge

  17. Georgetown

  18. Princeton

  19. SMU

  20. LSE

  21. BYU

  22. Northwestern

  23. Rutgers

  24. Vanderbilt

  25. Brown

25

Top MBA placement to investment banks 2017:

  1. Columbia

  2. NYU (Stern)

  3. Penn (Wharton)

  4. LBS

  5. Cornell

  6. Harvard

  7. Chicago (Booth)

  8. CMU (Tepper)

  9. Dartmouth (Tuck)

  10. MIT (Sloan)

  11. Yale SOM

  12. Northwestern (Kellogg)

  13. Stanford GSB

  14. Oxford (Said)

  15. Cambridge (Judge)

UCLA, Yale & Duke (Fuqua).

26

To analyze, we would need to find out the numbers who apply from each school to figure out success rates. But thanks for the info!

27

@Publisher Do you know the answer to the following questions?

  1. NYU and Stern are huge and lots of people there want to get into ibanking. Is the large number listed a reflection of large number of applicants or a high success rate?

Are the numbers listed strictly 1) IB analysts 2) at the NYC office? Investment banks probably employ more people for their mid and back offices. For example, BYU has a huge accounting program; does its number include those accountants in finance department?

28

“Does Dyson not have better ties to Wall Street than does Ross?”

The data in post #7 of this thread would indicate that Ross and Dyson have identical placement success in major Wall Street BB Banks. People on this thread are ignoring Michigan’s long history with Wall Street. Keeping in mind that Ross is almost twice the size of Dyson, Ross placed 31 undergrads at Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley last year, compared to Dyson’s 14. Overall, Ross also placed approximately twice as many undergraduates in BB Ibanks.

Publisher, the WSO is not reliable. There are far too many oddities and outliers.

29

“ Could you please elaborate on what makes UM more appealing to you? ”

Ann Arbor>Ithaca.

30

“Ann Arbor>Ithaca.”

While I agree with that assessment, for those who love the outdoors and rural areas, Ithaca is hard to top.

But I would also add that Ross is a more complete program than Dyson. That’s because at Michigan, both undergraduate and graduate programs are part of the same school, so undergraduate students benefit from the resources of a major MBA program. At Cornell, the undergraduate business program (Dyson) is not part of the Johnson School (Cornell’s MBA program). Instead, Dyson is part of the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. As such, the facilities and resources available to Ross students exceed those available to Dyson students.

Also, if one decides to switch from finance to consulting (very common once the glamour of Wall Street wears off), there is no doubt that Ross is a more heavily recruited program than Dyson.

That being said, for the purpose of this thread, when it comes to placement in Wall Street firms, Ross and Dyson are roughly equal.

31

If you’re not from New York, nor URM/First-Gen/legacy or a hooked applicant in general, I strongly suggest not applying to Dyson with ED. Their admission rate for the Class of 2021 is a measly 1%.

Apply EA to Michigan Ross – Ross is a much better business school than Cornell at the graduate level, which means a lot more trickling down of alumni networking and resources, not to mention its undergraduate business school is still very elite; its peer schools are the creme de la creme of undergrad b-schools like Stern and Haas.

32

Post #29: Cornell does have a comprehensive College of Business

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2016/01/cornell-establish-integrated-college-business

“Upon launch, anticipated during the 2016-17 academic year, the College of Business will comprise Cornell’s three accredited business programs: the School of Hotel Administration, the Charles H. Dyson School of Applied Economics and Management, and the Samuel Curtis Johnson Graduate School of Management. Each school will maintain its unique identity and mission, while their collective capabilities will be strengthened by bringing together faculty, curricular offerings, and programs within a cohesive College.”

“The Cornell College of Business will be one of the most comprehensive business schools in the nation with 145 research faculty and nearly 2,900 undergraduate, professional, and graduate students.”

33

CALSmom, I did in fact read about the College of Business, but the three distinct programs within it will remain independent. They will be housed in three separate buildings, and while the College will have its own dean, each of the three entities will remain independent part of its historic college and have its own dean and career offices. There will be new benefits from the synergies created, but they will not be as potent as those in single program entities such as Wharton, Ross, Haas etc…

34

Alexandre, just posting updated info for other readers of this thread.

@lilskies:
“Are they similar in terms of opportunities?” YES

“Is one a clear choice over the other?” NO (unless fit is wrong at one of them)

“Is there even a “wrong” decision to be made?” NO (unless you pick the school that leaves you with more debt)

ETA: private Ivy (IMO) trumps a public (even if elite) school. Much better attention and service (again, imo). I attended an elite public as an undergrad and my son is at Cornell and by far Cornell is better student experience. I always felt like a number at my undergrad (but loved it nonetheless).

35

“1. Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Wharton
2. Stern, Columbia, Stanford, Cornell, Dartmouth
3. Duke, Chicago, Northwestern, Brown, Ross, McCombs, Haas, Kelley…”

This is mixing schools that don’t have undergrad b-schools with only b-schools with schools that have neither :-). Adding econ totally confuses what the OP is asking for, imo. You have to take out most of the schools on the list if the OP wants finance undergrad, Harvard, Stanford, Kellogg etc, leaving Wharton, Stern, Cornell, Ross, Haas as the top undergrad. I would lean to Ross for the reasons Alexandre said, not only the integration with the MBA program and Ross’ more city like setting, though both are in great college towns.

36

"Top MBA placement to investment banks 2017:

  1. Harvard"

I find this really hard to believe, if you went to HBS and wanted a job in IB, you could pretty much get it. But I’ll take your word for it. Especially behind London and Cornell.

37

“If the OP is keen on getting to Wall Street per se, he should be aware that one possible route”

Ok but that’s a pretty convoluted route, why not just go to Cornell or Ross or obviously Wharton and have a direct path. Your path also favors UT over Rice in this case. Rice is a great school but if it doesn’t have what the OP is looking for (undergrad finance, WS recruiting).

38

“private Ivy (IMO) trumps a public (even if elite) school. Much better attention and service (again, imo). I attended an elite public as an undergrad and my son is at Cornell and by far Cornell is better student experience. I always felt like a number at my undergrad (but loved it nonetheless).”

I attended both CALSmom, and my experience has been very different from your own…or rather, your son’s. I felt like a number at both the public elite and the Ivy, but in both instances, I could make it small and easily access resources beyond reckoning. Nothing is handed to you at Cornell or Michigan, but if you scratch ever so slightly at both universities, you will strike gold.

It should be noted that Cornell and Michigan are almost identical when it comes to classroom experience. Almost identical quality student body, identical class size, identical resources devoted to students, identical job and graduate school placement, identical endowment per student etc…

When it comes to IBanking, Dyson and Ross are fairly comparable, but in all other ways. I give the edge to Ross over Dyson.

39

@theloniusmonk:

  1. "Why not just go to Cornell or Ross or obviously Wharton and have a direct path?"

It’s good to have options and back-up plans. There are plenty of applicants rejected from schools like Cornell and Penn who gain admission to schools like Emory. I simply wanted to encourage the OP by pointing out that his dream of getting into finance need not be held hostage to admission to Cornell, UM, or any other traditional “target” school with a very low acceptance rate.

  1. "Your path also favors UT over Rice in this case."

People use terms like “finance” and “Wall Street” in a variety of ways. If OP wants a front-office IB analyst position in NYC directly after graduation, then UT would be a better choice, especially if OP gained entry into the prestigious Business Honors Program. However, if OP has a more expansive sense of “finance” and would “settle” for a front-office IB analyst job in Houston (which would pay at or above street while not being docked by a state income tax), then Rice would position him well, in part because there is simply less competition for IB interview slots at Rice than there is at UT.

Attending a top-tier target school for NYC IB is a great gig if you can get it, but there is no guarantee that OP will be one of the lucky few to land the gig. He should realize, however, that that is not the only route to get where he wants to go.

40

@genedorbust @MrSamford2014 @Alexandre @theloniusmonk @CALSmom @rjkofnovi @prezbucky @Publisher

“Ross is a much better business school than Cornell at the graduate level, which means a lot more trickling down of alumni networking and resources, not to mention its undergraduate business school is still very elite; its peer schools are the creme de la creme of undergrad b-schools like Stern and Haas.”

If I understand correctly, the overall consensus is that Dyson and Ross (at the undergrad level) are top business programs and targets for Wall Street. However, Ross is much more established and this is a very big plus for the students there. So it would probably be better for someone to attend Ross, if choosing between these two.

However, let me ask this. Does Cornell being closer to NYC and having several connections there not make a difference (as stated in prior posts)? Does the Ivy League not make a difference? Do the smaller class sizes (and thus less competition) not make a difference? Does Cornell also not have an extensive list of alumni, similar to Michigan’s? Does the lower acceptance rate (and thus more selectivity) not make a difference?