<p>I am not sure who you talked to at Cornell but it is hard to believe that Cornell doesn’t have staff to put these numbers together. :)</p>
<p>IMHO, there is no point comparing the fundamental strengths like academic program, research opportunities, pre-med advising etc (it is a given for these top institutions) so that wasn’t our criteria for selecting Cornell over Wash U. The main factors that tilted my kid towards Cornell was:</p>
<ul>
<li>DIVERSITY - Cornell is a very diverse environment from racial, socio-economic, professional interest perspective. It is very hard to replicate this diversity brought about by Cornell’s motto of “any person any study” on such a large scale. </li>
<li>Campus vibe - Cornell is big and that energy of a large class on a sprawling campus is infectious (even during the terrible winters). You need to just experience this to believe this. </li>
<li>Opportunity for personal growth - Socially you learn a lot given Cornell’s size and diversity. The number of social opportunities (30% students are involved in greek life), clubs (ranging from academic to performing arts to athletic), service/leadership opportunities within Ithaca are overwhelming at the least. You also need to seek help (which is very readily available from all types of advisors but you won’t be served things on a silver platter like typical small private colleges can) by taking initiative and owning/running your mission. This is part of growing up beyond high school and Cornell forces you to do that. </li>
</ul>
<p>If I may suggest, please make your selection for the right reasons. Where will you be happy? I know that is difficult in these very result-oriented (vs process oriented) times and especially when you spend $250K for your undergrad education. </p>
<p>In the end, I can’t claim to have read every word of all the posts here but fact is that Cornell will NOT offer the same amount of clinical opportunities as Wash U (given the proximity to its medical college) during school year. But Cornell offers:
Extern program and mentorship programs during school year (Spring break, winter breaks) and you can always get clinical experience during Summer months
Urban semester for summer as well as Fall or Spring semesters - you can shadow, do research internship and a service project in NYC for an entire semester
Access to any type of research (great choices for hard core science or even interdisciplinary research, you can also work with professors in vet school which is on-campus)
Access to a lot of pre-professional groups/clubs (GlobeMed, Medical Brigades, pre-med frats etc.)
Excellent humanities courses in addition to strong pre-med courses
Global Health minor (field experience in Africa/India)
Health policy minor</p>
<p>And even if you consider just the numbers, you do NOT know the impact of including DO numbers to Cornell’s acceptance rate. Seems like the requirements for DO are not as stringent as MD programs.</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision as you can’t go wrong with either place!</p>
<p>Monydad - Interesting, though that seems rather inconvenient. I know I wouldn’t have a car, and so the bus ride would be inconvenient (1.50 per ride and 40 minutes?). That’s pretty ridiculous, though possibly doable. </p>
<p>Miaroxs - Thank you! I spoke to one of the premed advisors at Cornell, so I don’t know why they said that there is no longer any staff that records current premed data. Yes, it was very hard for me to believe that, so I am glad you found and attached the 2011-2013 premed acceptance data. That is reassuring, as I had thought that Cornell had something to hide, but their 2011-2013 premed data looks fairly consistent with the previous years’ data.<br>
I agree that it doesn’t make sense to compare based on fundamental strengths, as both WashU and Cornell are similar in this regard. However in my opinion, it does make some sense to compare based on clinical opportunities and medical school outcomes. I agree though that not including D.O. schools largely skews the data (if it is enough to make the acceptance outcomes equal to WashU’s, I’m not sure). Thanks for the info on clinical opportunities. I wanted to volunteer throughout the school year at a hospital, so in this regard WashU has a distinct advantage. I would go broke riding the bus to Cayuga Medical Center haha. Though I agree that the number of research opportunities at Cornell, even for undergrads, is unparalleled.<br>
Miaroxs- if you don’t mind me asking, how does your kid like his/her premed experience at Cornell?</p>
<p>Cruiser101 - in light of the fact that a Cornell premed advisor provided me with misinformation, I apologize for some of the comments I made directed towards you. I am very sorry, I should have trusted you. Thanks for the advice you gave me, by the way. Also, if you don’t mind me asking, how does your son like his premed experience at Cornell?</p>
<p>pinegood, pre-med experience has been great so far - awesome advising (by pre-med, faculty and student advisers), intellectually stimulating courses, all (except one) courses taught by professors, good food, great choices of clubs/service opportunities, perfect social life with a lot of choices for parties/events, diverse set of friends. Basically a very positive experience so far. I can’t give you specific details so as not to divulge any details about my kid.</p>
<p>Thanks Miaroxs.
Final question/concern: grading/cutthroatedness/atmosphere at Cornell. I constantly hear that Cornell is cutthroat competitive and many premed students there are miserable as a result. Also, looking at the med school acceptance charts, it seems you need a 3.8 to have a good shot at med school. Is it possible to attain this/do extracurriculars/make friends/be happy? I constantly hear that grading is impossible at Cornell, students are competitive rather than collaborative, and the overall atmosphere for premeds trying to attain high grades is extremely stressful/depressing. I was wondering if anybody could comment on that.</p>
<p>I agree with monydad. Pre-med is a ton of work no matter where you go. My friend’s son attends Wash U and he is extremely busy especially he is boomed major. Pre-med being higher percentage of student population, my kid thought that Wash U will be more intense. About Cornell grading, it is possible to get good grades with a lot of planning, working ahead (vs last minute) and attending study groups/office hours. Intro bio classes have study groups and the students study with friends all the time. So it seems like a fairly collaborative environment even for pre-med classes plus it is easy to avoid the most grade-obsessed students. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>I thought it was a general rule that you shouldn’t even bother applying to med school if your GPA was anything less than 3.7ish (obviously there are exceptions to this, but they are few and far between) regardless of where you go to undergrad and even that is still iffy…I don’t see why going to WashU is any advantage in this regard unless you are implying that it is inherently easier to get good grades there or that they somehow just have a better chance … both of which are incredibly subjective statements and can’t really be proven…</p>
<p>Which college were you accepted to btw? CALS? CAS? CoE? I think that your premed experience may differ majorly depending on that too as I have been told by students in all of those colleges.</p>
<p>Dear Monydad, My D just finished her first year in C and is a GPA>4 students there. Last year, the decision was very hard to make, but now my D and all parents are very happy with the decision to come to Cornell. One thing want to ask is, she has been looking and contacting with Cayuga Medical Center for volunteers for a year, but still not get in. Any help you would be greatly appreciated. <a href="mailto:bragerianhu@hotmail.com">bragerianhu@hotmail.com</a></p>
<p>My first post in this thread says:
"
I’m no expert in this area, but FWIW here are some relevant prior CC posts, from two Cornellians attending top medical schools:"</p>
<p>All I did was quote, and/or paraphrase comments that other Cornellians posted on CC in the past.</p>
<p>I have absolutely no personal knowledge of what any Cornell Pre-med should do,about anything, Beyond what I read on CC. Part of which I posted or paraphrased here already.</p>
<p>“By the end of 4 years, The pre-med population at WashU goes from 600 to less than 200.”</p>
<p>Perhaps this explains the percentage differences. Is it possible that Cornell has a higher percentage of their beginning pre-meds enrolled in Medical schools, but the statistics for WashU look good because they only include actual Medical school applicants, and not applicants that washed out of the program?</p>