<p>A similar terrible tragedy happened at the University of Georgia in January. </p>
<p>In this case,the student who died (also a freshman) was being visited by an old HS friend. Unfortunately the "friend" brought cocaine and heroin (to someone who did not have a history of drug abuse) and that, combined with the alcohol, killed him. This is so senseless.</p>
<p>So, so sad.</p>
<p>my D that is an adrenaline seeker so far is able to get that through physical activity . ( oddly she is quite shy, but loves to surf/rock climb/snowboard)-
I worry about her at college, but we have a few years and she has a fairly good head on her shoulders, plus she already knows she wants to take a year off after high school.
Still I will really check out supports for freshmen.</p>
<p>I'm sorry but this has cut too close to home with a fellow CC poster actually dying. I can't wrap my mind about how his family is feeling right now. Is there anything we can collectively do do make a difference besides donating to Gordie or Sam's sight?</p>
<p>well I have forwarded some ideas to the health clinic at my daughters school and I am going to work with the PTA and the health clinic to host an infomational night for parents about risks.
At her school students often take health online to free up school day for more academic classes, but that takes away discussion time with their classmates. I think there is a lot of education that can go on in the middle and high school level, not only for the students but for the parents.
I think if each of us bring this information back to our own communities- we can make a big difference to someone-</p>
<p>Parents, something about this situation is not adding up to me. I've been around the "scene" here at UVA enough to have a good idea of what goes on, and I have a strong suspicion that there's a missing element to this story. SPE, the fraternity lucifer was in on thursday night, was not having a party. They were hanging out around the house. That normally entails parking a keg somewhere and drinking some form of light beer while talking, playing beer pong, blasting music, maybe dancing if girls are over, etc. I don't believe that drinking in situations like that is inherently dangerous. There are generally distractions that keep you from consuming a lot, and hell, it's pretty hard to get too drunk from drinking beer. It's a matter of logistics - 10 drinks is nearly a gallon - quite a lot of any substance for a person to consume in a single evening. And for something with an elevated tolerance to alcohol, 10 drinks is nowhere near fatal. I doubt that hard liquor was there, as hard liquor is rarely seen in larger social settings like that. It's expensive and harder to get, and doesn't have the same laid-back "cool" factor of a keg o' natty. Even if lucifer brought his own flask, he wouldn't have had enough alcohol to kill himself. Large flasks, after all, can't hold much more than 10oz or so of hard liquor. </p>
<p>What I've heard from people on Rugby Road is that the missing element here was narcotic in nature. It makes sense to me: lucifer seemed to think he was invincible, and looking for a thrill. Hard drugs are hardly uncommon among kids at top colleges, and given that his evening at SPE was likely not a night of excessive consumption of hard liquor, drugs may have contributed to his death. I've heard from several sources that the suspected culprit is cocaine. I could go into more detail, but none of this has been confirmed. It isn't, however, even remotely out of the realm of possibility. In fact, I'd suspect drugs at this point moreso than alcohol.</p>
<p>Cavalier,
If drugs were involved, it is still possible that liquor was a contributing factor. A person who has been drinking loses inhibitions and judgment. That could lead to a person's choosing to use drugs even though they had no previous history of doing so (which may have been what happened to the student described in post 81.). </p>
<p>As for the many people wondering what we can collectively do to make a difference, here are my thoughts.</p>
<p>While informational nights are fine, we also must realize that some people are risk takers, and risk takers inherently are attracted to things that are dangerous. My guess is that either adrenaline gives them more of a thrill than it gives most other people or they lack the negative warning physical sensations that others may experience when considering doing something that could harm them.</p>
<p>Presentations and information that would cause more cautious people to avoid dangers actually attract risk takers to the experiences. Risk takers assume that the rules don't apply to them. They think they are invulnerable -- smarter than others, etc.</p>
<p>Consequently, emeraldkity4's way of encouraging her risk taking daughter to do activities like snow boarding probably is a wonderful way of lowering the chances that her D would be attracted to drugs, booze, unprotected sex, etc.</p>
<p>Years ago, I spent 5 years working extensively in the alcoholism/substance abuse rehabilitation field. I also have an older son who shares much of the outlook, personality characteristics and behaviors that lucifer displayed on these boards. This included the positives as well as negative characteristics.</p>
<p>Due to my experiences in the field and with my older son, I also know that people may choose to make destructive choices despite parents doing what the parents can to present good options and to get help for teens who are straying or seem vulnerable.</p>
<p>Ultimately, everyone is responsible for the decisions that they make in their lives. Colleges, friends, parents -- none can save a person who is hell bent on self destructive behavior. Some mature in their present lives and eventually grow out of their self destructiveness. Others, I think, may have to grow out of it in their next lives.</p>
<p>Oh, of course alcohol was a contributing factor, if not the sole factor. I was just making the point that it may not be <em>the</em> factor. Moderate drinking shouldn't be confused with drinking & drugging.</p>
<p>This is all speculation until the autopsy comes out.</p>
<p>Link to story in today's Newsday says that alcohol intoxication was the cause of death.</p>
<p>"Presentations and information that would cause more cautious people to avoid dangers actually attract risk takers to the experiences. Risk takers assume that the rules don't apply to them. They think they are invulnerable -- smarter than others, etc."</p>
<p>I would very much like to see the studies that support this. This is analogous to saying that sex ed encourages teenagers to have sex. Even if you stick to the topic at hand, that would be evidence for not having drug or alcohol awareness programs, and I have never seen evidence to that effect. They may not change behavior, but I wasn't aware of studies that conclude that they encourage drug or alcohol use?</p>
<p>I'm not sure how long it takes to determine the cause of death, but I am surprised that they have already determined lucifer's. There was another unexplained death at UVA in November 2005, and as of yet, 4 months later, there has been no autopsy results???</p>
<p>"I would very much like to see the studies that support this. This is analogous to saying that sex ed encourages teenagers to have sex. Even if you stick to the topic at hand, that would be evidence for not having drug or alcohol awareness programs, and I have never seen evidence to that effect. They may not change behavior, but I wasn't aware of studies that conclude that they encourage drug or alcohol use?"</p>
<p>I don't think that you thoroughly read what I posted. Therefore, I'll paste it below, capitalizing the parts that I think you overlooked.</p>
<p>""Presentations and information that would cause MORE CAUTIOUS people to avoid dangers actually attract RISK TAKERS to the experiences. Risk takers assume that the rules don't apply to them. They think they are invulnerable -- smarter than others, etc."</p>
<p>To elaborate, if most teens or other people heard a presentation by a person who had gotten hooked on a dangerous, new drug and had consequently had major health, economic, etc. problems, the people who are NOT the risk takers would hear mainly about the problems and would, therefore, be LESS inclined to take the drug.</p>
<p>The risk takers, however, would mainly focus on the thrill that made the addicted person keep taking the drug. The risk takers would assume that they were smarter than the addicted person, and would have the good sense to stop taking the drug before it caused problems. Consequently, the presentation would ATTRACT THOSE RISK taking people to the drug.</p>
<p>There has been research about this which you are welcome to look for through the many on-line resources that are available.</p>
<p>Whether or not you believe me is up to you. I used to be in the substance abuse treatment and prevention business, and actually was a top expert in the state where I used to live. I got burned out on the field and moved on to other things.</p>
<p>I believe that most presentations are made by formerly addicted people who usually cite the grave consequenses of their actions. I have looked through the research, and haven't seen any to support the theory cited above. That is why I thought you would have an actual published article that proves this theory, since you are an expert in this field.</p>
<p>Thank you anyway.</p>
<p>Chocoholic: My guess is that the pathologist did an immediate blood alcohol test that showed high levels of alcohol in this young man's blood, thus enabling them to pinpoint alcohol poisoning as a probable cause of death. In other cases, a blood alcohol test may have been negative, inconclusive or not possible for some other reason. Blood alcohol tests can be done fairly quickly, while searching for other causes of death (which I'm sure they will still do in this case) take somewhat longer.</p>
<p>My immediate thoughts are so different from what I'm hearing on this thread. Why was this young man drinking at all? Wasn't he underage?</p>
<p>I know I sound naive but I'm not. We live in an upscale community where kids start drinking and using drugs - some heavily - in middle school. Some are heavy social drinkers in high school, and others are alcoholics or addicted by college. Our community has had its share of alcohol and drug-related tragedy - kids killed in car wrecks while driving impaired and alcohol or drug poisoning where they end up in the hospital's ICU or dead. In other words, the signs are there but they are ignored or excused by family, friends, and schools. Fortunately, our police take these violations seriously.</p>
<p>I encourage everyone to report minors-in-possession to the parents and the police and to elect a police chief who will take these violations seriously. The answer is to make sure there are early and serious consequences to this behavior. This young man has learned a lesson in the ultimate way, and what a terrible tragedy it is.</p>
<p>I don't think the presentation of risk is what attracts my d to adventure but the physical energy required.
She actually researches her ideas and presents them to me highlighting the precautions and controlled risk
She has always liked the feeling of her body moving in space- we had to take down the climber when she was 5 because she persisted in jumping off the top of it. She also used to ride her tricycle down the street with her eyes closed
with alcohol though- so far as a sophomore- she hasn't experimented with it- and I haven't seen any indication she is interested- her friends are pretty quiet/ geekily active, and she has actually spurned her former best friends who are now interested in boys and more social activities ( not that I encouraged that- but I am trying to see it from her side- she insists she has little in common with them anymore- and that may be true :( )</p>
<p>I know from experience however- that drinking can open up social possiblities that seemed too difficult before- although it doesn't seem to have played a big role in her sisters college life- so I can only watch and wait. ( and listen)</p>
<p>Northstarmom and Collegialmom are having an interesting discussion regarding risk-takers. Here is a 1995 article addressing this issue in the context of equestrian sports: <a href="http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawson/amea/apr95nws.htm#thrill%5B/url%5D">http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawson/amea/apr95nws.htm#thrill</a></p>
<p>DRJ4, I understand exactly where you're coming from. All one has to do is look in the College Life section of this board to see all the hype about underage drinking. The threads among some of these kids are truly disturbing, i.e., how to buy alcohol if you're underage, which schools have the best drinking parties, etc. It's a troubling matter, IMO.</p>
<p>cav, baby, you are in denial. Stay that course and you ask for a life of heartache.</p>
<p>We didn't fall of the tomato truck, hon. We've been to lots of college parties--at a time when the effects of drugs and unprotected sex were unknown.</p>
<p>'Moderation' and 'college parties' are not good buddies. There are physiological reasons this is true. 'Moderation' and 'Middle-age parties' are the best of friends. there are physiological reasons for that too.</p>
<p>Kids binge drink too much. When they drink, they binge. Not everyone but that point is minor. they binge drink too much at UVA and everywhere else. Adding drugs to the cause of death does not change anything. More self-destructive behavior at college parties is not a surprise.</p>
<p>Stop kidding yourself and stop promoting drinking on a parent's thread. Do you have an adult mentor? Someone you admire? Call them up and give them your irrational argument. Your postings are a worry.</p>