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Oh wow...after reading trackbabi's post...I can only say wow.
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<p>I agree. How in the hell is calling Obama by his middle name racist?? Not only is her statement obscenely outrageous, but Islam is independent of race. It makes absolutely no sense.</p>
<p>^Exactly. And to dismiss using Hitlerly as nothing...but saying Obama's middle name is the most horrible thing ever! It's insane.</p>
<p>^^ Yes it's a middle name(which may have bad implications) versus being referred to as one of the most sinister people to have ever existed... Which has worse implications?pretty ridiculous if you ask me.</p>
<p>I think anyone who uses Hussein is clearly implying Obama is a Muslim. It also doesn't matter that Hussein is an Arab and not specifically a Muslim name. Not all Muslims are Arab but almost all Arabs are Muslim. Thus, using Hussein implies Arab which implies Muslim.</p>
<p>While I do agree that this type of dishonest politics is inappropriate, I think whether or not Obama is a Muslim is relevant to the voting public. Now I do believe him to be a Christian (or the somewhat far fetched but plausible situation that he's actually an atheist). But in regards to him being Muslim, I don't necessarily think that's a great thing. We need someone neutral concerning foreign policy and being Muslim will hugely bias his ideas. Furthermore, we can't elect as the leader of this nation someone who subscribes to same ideology (that of anti-Christian and anti-West) we're fighting against. (Not that all MUslims are like that, but a huge percentage are.) Islam is a violent, misogynistic religion where women are seen as secondary, people riot over a cartoon and the naming of a teddy bear, fatwahs are issued against authors (Salman Rushdie most famously), etc. I'm sorry, but I don't want that as my President. (Note: I'm an atheist, so I have no dog in this fight. I'm also not too fond of Christianity, especially the conservative Right, but it pales in comparison to how Islam is nominally practiced.)</p>
<p>For the record, Soccer Guy, I was a Hillary supporter as well.</p>
<p>Fine - calling Hillary "Hitlery" is just as bad. I've never heard anyone actually call her that, but if I did I guess it would be just as bad.</p>
<p>You all know damn well that when people use Obama's middle name they are not just using his middle name. Take your head out of the sand. The only ones who use it are race baiters. </p>
<p>You can say all you want "But it's his middle name!", but the context in which that name is used is to invoke fear. </p>
<p>But no - people who oppose Barack are not racist. No one ever said that. People who oppose Barack and constantly include his middle name tend to be very racist. </p>
<p>This isn't even a debate - it's a commonly understood reality of this campaign. Just type in a Google search and see who's using "Hussein" and in what context. That's why people who support Obama are forced to never use his name.</p>
<p>Dontno - We're not fighting Islam and Barack has nothing to do with Islam. A secular government can't really fight a religion, anyway. We're fighting some radical sects of Islam that are commiting acts of terrorism. There's a huge difference.</p>
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People who oppose Barack and constantly include his middle name tend to be very racist.
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<p>Prove it. I do agree it's wrong but the fact that you guys are saying its racist is ridiculous. Everything wrong is not racist... jeez. Last time I checked, being a Muslim is independent of race. I don't think Obama supporters on this board truly understand the definition of the word "racist"; to be racist is to discriminate against a person on the basis of his/her race. They freely use the word racist to make their own points.</p>
<p>Right. Push the burden of proof is on me. Beautiful side step. I challenge you to prove that people who constantly use his name are not trying to make a commentary about race, religion, and / or ethnicity.</p>
<p>Here:</p>
<p>Barack</a> Hussein Obama - Google Search</p>
<p>Figure out how many of those search results are from people who support Obama or are impartial to him.</p>
<p>As for your point about race versus religion, well, I'll let conservative radio talk show host Mike Gallagher answer that in his response to the flack he has taken for using Barack's full name. He is talking about another conservative commentator:</p>
<p>"The great Michelle Malkin gently chided me for using Obama’s middle name. After my initial shock (after all, anyone who continually refers to “Obamasiah” isn’t someone who shies away from edginess) she went on to explain how the loony left has honed in on her maiden name as a way to try and attack her with some kind of racist smear about her ethnicity. So I think she feels the use of a name to make a point, legitimate or not, is unnecessary." </p>
<p>They use his middle name to make a point: a point about ethnicity, race, and religion and what we should fear about certain groups taking over our country. </p>
<p>We can parse words about racism or bigotry or whatever you want to call it, but it comes down to an ulterior motive of far more than just "But I'm using his full name!" </p>
<p>Bollocks.</p>
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<p>Wow, just wow. Your comment is ridiculous. I am not going to throw around the word "racist" like many other Obamaniacs do here, but your comment is extremely uneducated. I think applejack sums it up best:</p>
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Dontno - We're not fighting Islam and Barack has nothing to do with Islam. A secular government can't really fight a religion, anyway. We're fighting some radical sects of Islam that are commiting acts of terrorism. There's a huge difference.
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<p>How can you judge a whole group of people based on the actions of a few select lunatics? Our country is not fighting Islam; we are fighting radicall Islamic extremists- there is a fine line.</p>
<p>(note: I am not Muslim so I have no agenda to push- I just wanted to point out the extremely uneducated nature of this comment)</p>
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I challenge you to prove that people who constantly use his name are not trying to make a commentary about race, religion, and / or ethnicity.
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<p>Did I ever say it's okay to call him by his middle name? Of course not. I even said that doing so is wrong in post number 247:</p>
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<p>But just because it's wrong, that doesn't give you a right to call people who do this racist. Islam is independent of race. Not everything wrong pertaining to Obama is racist. Straight from dictionary.com - </p>
<p>racism: 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.</p>
<p>Using his middle name doesn't seem to have any racist implications then, according to this definition. </p>
<p> [quote] We can parse words about racism or bigotry or whatever you want to call it, but it comes down to is the ulterior motive of far more than just "But I'm just using his full name!"
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<p>But once again- this doesn't give you the right to throw around the word "racist" as freely as you do. Your use of the word "racist" is not in line with the definition provided above.</p>
<p>Well, I actually didn't throw out the word racism. Someone else did. You're getting caught up in these symmantics issues. I call it bigotry. Though I do believe race plays a significant factor - even Catholic Arabs are often lumped into this group.</p>
<p>I'm not sure there is a well thought out delineation. Perhaps I am mistaken.</p>
<p>One could even argue that the reason why this tactic is effective is that some or most American people are bigots- many of them hold uneducated views on Islam very similar to those of donto, and the whole reason why this "middle-name tactic" would work in the first place is because of their biased, uneducated views on Islam.</p>
<p>Obviously, you all ignored the fact that I was listing "implications". My list was implications people make after hearing Obama's name and implications people intend to create by using Obama's middle name. </p>
<p>I never said being Muslim is a race. I even stated the opposite in the list. But just as discriminating against Hispanics is considered racist, even though Hispanic is not a race, so is inciting fear against people who are Muslim. I am well aware that race does not exist scientifically. But I am also well aware that racism(in the social sense) does exist and I guess, you Brown-Man, cannot see it in this thread.</p>
<p>Like applejack said, there is only one reason Obama's middle name is used so vehemently in the media. And that is to emphasize the fact that it is shared by a former US enemy and that it is an Arab, or some people believe, Muslim name. For many people in America, and not just middle-America, even people at Cornell, anything Muslim or Arab is "bad".</p>
<p>And how can you say that I think Muslims or Arabs are bad after reading my post? Do you read and process at all? I still stand that it is racist. To incite fear against a group of people by creating implications based of a person's name is racist, because you are implying that that group is bad and the person who has that name is bad as well. Google this issue and you will find that many, across the world, share this same opinion. The only ones on your side would be people who are known to be racist or people who deny the existence of racism.</p>
<p>I don't think you understand the definition of racism.</p>
<p>Straight from dictionary.com -</p>
<p>racism:
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.</p>
<p>Using his middle name doesn't seem to have any racist implications then, according to this definition, because implying he is Muslim is independent of his race. Muslims are white, black, brown. and Asian, and come from any race.</p>
<p>Who are the real bigots? The people who use his middle name or the people who are offended by the fact that his middle name is a common Muslim middle name? Why does this inspire fear in the American people? If you ask me, they are the true bigots here. Many of them hold uneducated views on Islam very similar to those of donto, and the whole reason why this "middle-name tactic" would work in the first place is because of their biased, uneducated views on Islam. If they weren't bigots against the Muslim faith- then they should have no problem that Obama's middle name is Hussein.</p>
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Referencing Obama's Arabic middle name and Muslim background in such a negative light implies that:
4. That Arab people are "bad", that they are enemies to America. To think that would be racist, hands down.
5. That being Muslim is bad.
6. That having a Muslim or Arab president is bad.
7. That the Middle East is bad.
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<p>Some or most American people make this connection in their own heads- they are the real bigots. Before Obama's middle name was ever used, this is what they thought. How do the people who use Obama's middle name imply this? This is just implicit in many Americans' heads and the people who are using Obama's middle name are unfortunately exploiting that. I feel many Americans harbor typical, uneducated, anti-Muslim sentiment as expressed by dontno.</p>
<p>I am not banking on the fact that most Americans feel the same way you and I do, Brown-man, that Hussein is a cool and common name to have. I am realizing that most Americans, or a lot, are like dontno and worse. That hearing his middle name will imply what I listed. For many people Muslim/Arab is a race. Being either means to many that you are genetically different and genetically an enemy to America.
If you stop and think about maybe you will see that we are on the same page.</p>
<p>if obama thinks his middle name will prevent him from winning the election...then he should get rid of it...just like he got rid of wright and that church of his...</p>
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One could even argue that the reason why this tactic is effective is that some or most American people are bigots- many of them hold uneducated views on Islam very similar to those of donto, and the whole reason why this "middle-name tactic" would work in the first place is because of their biased, uneducated views on Islam.
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<p>Precisely, Brown man. So we're all saying the same thing. That's why it's so sensitive - because there are many uneducated people indoctrinated to fear anything Arabic or Muslim.</p>
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if obama thinks his middle name will prevent him from winning the election...then he should get rid of it...just like he got rid of wright and that church of his...
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<p>Resurgambell - you already made this point. I don't understand why a person should get rid of his name simply because there are bigots who use to to incite fear. That seems like it would be pandering to the ignorance, not standing up against it as he is doing by running for president under his birth name.</p>
<p>The Wight issue is old news and an urban black cultural norm. Let it go.</p>
<p>I'm just too annoyed to read the rest after reading a couple pages. You guys are <strong><em>ing idiots. I have heard Obama's middle name a couple dozen times but I have NEVER heard Hitlery. What I'm REALLY annoyed about is that u are so blinded by passion that u can't even realize what ur arguing. Obviously if someone calls Hillary Hitlery it's wrong. But then u deny that people use Obama's middle name to spark accusations that he's Muslim. Are you *</em></strong>ing blind? You're either an idiot or purposely ignoring the truth. Whenever they use his name it's to make people think he's Muslim. Then for some reason you come out and say "no it's not wrong because being Muslim isn't bad". No *** Sherlock, that's <strong><em>ing obvious. That's what's so wrong and why we as Obama supporters are so *</em></strong>ed at fear mongering. It's wrong that people think Muslims are bad and it's wrong that those same people are trying to associate Obama with Muslims which means they believe Muslims are bad. We are on the same ***ing side arguing about "which name is worse". They are both Horrible and you need to go to the source of the problem...the conservative bloggers and the like who don't want anyone besides a white man in office. GOD IM ANNOYED because in the past couple pages u all keep arguing in circles about which name is worse when in reality they are both bad! (and Obama's is racist/bigoted and Hitlery is sexist if the person is saying it b/c they think a powerful woman is like an authoritarian dictator). But stop arguing eachother, look at the party against putting the woman and black man into the white house. Only one party is same old, same old. Fear mongering about the other side while putting up a white old man for president (while the Dems included a woman, a black man, and a Hispanic man). Which party do u really think harbors patches of sexists and racists? Be mad at those patches. Just like how it's said if Obama had Clinton on his ticket it would motivate droves of Republicans who would otherwise have stayed at home to go vote against Obama/Clinton because they hate Clinton so much...perhaps because she is a powerful woman.</p>
<p>K sry for the ramble but I was getting ****ed at the infighting</p>
<p>Well said. It did become a frivolous argument over definitions and childish names, as if people against racism would root for sexism. I think there's still a lot of frustration that Hillary lost.</p>
<p>But, you're right, McCain is running the most uninspiring and confused campaign in modern political history. Conservative Ben Stein said it's beating even Bob Dole's pathetic bid to beat Clinton. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, Obama did well to demonstrate his ease and respect on the international stage in a way Bush never did and McCain struggles to do. He's up 8 points in the polls now. </p>
<p>We should all be happy that Obama and Hillary had their epic battle when they did. Hillary's tenacity vetted Obama of all his baggage before he faced the Republican attack machine. I dare say McCain isn't half the rival Hillary was, and we should all be grateful to Hillary for giving such a gift to our nation by preparing Obama.</p>
<p>Thank you, BigRed, for clearing up a useless argument.</p>