<p>I'm a student at an elite prep school (Lawrenceville School in NJ), and we typically send 25% of our grads to Ivy, 10-15 to Princeton annually (out of ~810 students per graduating class). I have read bearcats' posts about how students at his high school (Hotchkiss, which is often regarded as being in the same tier as mine) got in with 3.0 GPA. </p>
<p>But since admission has become increasingly competitive, I'm wondering if UMich could still be a safe match for a ~4.0 GPA (with a pretty rigorous course load)/2250+ SAT student at an elite prep school. The problem is, I don't think my ECs are outstanding (electric guitar, some involvement/little leadership in volunteering, minimal athletic abilities/only made a JV team, no other types of awards as yet), but would being at a prestigious high school compensate for this? </p>
<p>Also, I'm interested in College of LSA. Is it harder or easier to get into than CoE?</p>
<p>Definitely at least a match for COE. Maybe safety for LSA.</p>
<p>Most students don’t have any outstanding extracurricular either.</p>
<p>dude 4.0/2250 from lawrenceville is a safety.
Best strategy is to apply to Michigan EA. If you get in (which you will), you don’t have to apply to other safeties, and can focus on the top of your list.</p>
<p>230 per graduating class* lol</p>
<p>Well, it’s reassuring to hear that I can treat UMich as a safety because its program for the major I’m interested in is in USNews top 5.</p>
<p>Yes, it can IF you apply there as early as possible. You’ll hear back early. It will give you an early warning alarm that you had better look at some even safer schools and rethink your list if you are not accepted. If you are, then you have a great school in your pocket and can apply to whatever as lottery tickets.</p>
<p>By when should I have my application completed? And since UMich is Rolling, after how long will I hear back from them?</p>
<p>The earlier, the better. Go on their website and it will let you know. Things change so you need current information. If you are not accepted in that first wave, it’s good notice to you that you had better seek some other safeties.</p>
<p>If you apply by the EA deadline of 11/1, you’ll hear back before X-mas.</p>
<p>Michigan is not rolling in the Early Action round.</p>
<p>Safe match is about right. Then again, to a student from Lawrenceville with your stats, only a handful of schools would be reaches. Most universities, including Brown, Cal, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Michigan, Northwestern, Penn (non-Wharton), Rice etc… Would all be considered matches or safe matches to a 4.0 student with a 2250 on the SAT from Lawrenceville. Students with your stats from your school who apply to all 10 of the schools listed above will get into at least 6 of them.</p>
<p>Alexandre - Why would that be the case? Is Lawrenceville known to be a “tough” school to get a 4.0? just based on other posts it sounded like the credentials mentioned above are solid but by no means a surety to the schools that you mention.</p>
<p>Just look at their matriculations. In the past 5 years, approximately 1,200 students have graduated from Lawrenceville. Below are the number who enrolled into the following universities:</p>
<p>Princeton University 66
Georgetown University 42
University of Pennsylvania 41
Columbia university 39
Duke University 31
Cornell University 28
Stanford university 25
Yale University 25
University of Virginia 24
Johns Hopkins University 21
Vanderbilt University 21
Brown University 19
Dartmouth College 18
Harvard University 18
Middlebury College 14
Wesleyan University 14
Amherst College 12
Northwestern University 12
University of Chicago 11
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 10
Williams College 10
Bowdoin College 9
Davidson college 9
Emory University 9
Tufts University 9
University of Michigan 9
University of Notre Dame 9
Colgate University 8
Washington University-St Louis 8
Haverford College 7
Swarthmore College 6
Carnegie Mellon University 5
Claremont McKenna College 5
United States Naval Academy 4
University of California-Berkeley 4
Pomona College 3
Rice university 3</p>
<p>Roughly 50% enroll in the type of universities and colleges that I listed above. Assuming that 4.0 GPAs are not given out to just anybody but reserved to the top 20% or so of the students, then I would say that 4.0 students have very few reaches.</p>
<p>For my senior year at hotchkiss (comparable), 3 people had gpa above 3.9, one of them did so by only taking 3 APs. </p>
<p>If the grading policy is similar at Lawrenceville ( which I am pretty sure is), 4.0 is a rare bird. You are talking top 5% at a school that has a 20% acceptance rate from a very self-selective applicant pool to begin with.</p>
<p>I feel that a lot of students at Lawrenceville and other prestigious boarding schools get into top colleges mostly because of connections. It is not that the school is particularly difficult. Many students have parents with legacy at Ivies. In addition, Princeton University is nearby and some of the students may have parents who work there.</p>
<p>Legacy status is not much of a hook these days at any selective college. Our son is a Dean’s List performer at Choate, a varsity athlete with a very deep EC, demonstrated leadership, and two U-M alum parents, and we’d be thrilled if he were accepted to Michigan. Even with his record, we won’t be counting on an acceptance.</p>
<p>For those not familiar with elite prep schools, the academic rigor is unquestioned by colleges; these schools are known for producing students capable of handling the work at top schools. They are VERY tough and, as @bearcats says, a 4.0 is a rare bird. There is no grade inflation at these schools; colleges know that and evaluate accordingly. Even so, I don’t think Michigan can be considered “safe” for anyone these days.</p>
<p>BTW: Nice to see you on the Michigan board @converge 12. It can get a bit myopic on the prep school forum. ;)</p>
<p>I don’t know what the grade distribution is like because we don’t generally ask around–but as at all boarding schools, I think the average grade should be B/B+. Cum laude (top 20%) cutoff last year was a 3.78. This seems a bit high compared to what bearcats said about Hotchkiss, but considering that about 30% of Deerfield (a comparable school to Lville and Hotchkiss) grads have a 3.7 and above, I think grades here are reasonably inflated??</p>
<p>Bluedevilsfan, I would agree that academics at elite BS isn’t possible to ace, but it sure is more rigorous than your typical private schools. Our average SAT is a 2095–surely, the grading has to be curved in a certain way that befits the archetypal grade distribution for a group of smarter kids. I would also say that a lot of kids get into the Ivies because elite prep schools are intrinsically selective and admit a lot of students with Ivy-caliber credentials to begin with. There are connections, but I bet there are more of those at NYC day schools and magnet schools because prep schools tend to be socialeconomically diverse. After all, does legacy matter much anymore for most of the Ivies anyway?</p>
<p>Regarding Princeton–contrary to popular belief, there aren’t more Princeton fac kids here than there are Yale fac kids at Hotchkiss. The connection is, despite what many think, is rather unobtrusive. I myself know only 1 Princeton fac brat. The only reason why we send so many to Princeton is that virtually all kids apply there.</p>
<p>@Alexandre: what is the reputation of West Coast boarding schools to Cal? Is Berkeley aware of us at all? I’ve always thought BS is a regional thing.</p>
<p>@ChoatieMom: nice to see you here as well :D</p>
<p>We were considering moving to L’ville, NJ a few years ago & the owner of the house that we were considering buying - guaranteed admission to L’ville school as part of the negotiations. My kids had the grades but I am not so sure that LS is as selective as you might think. I do believe connections and legacy play a big role in BS admissions. As far as the west coast is concerned, there are very few BS (atleast that I know of) but in our recent visit to the east coast the admission officers in many schools knew the PS that my kid attends and specifically the counselors. So I think that they are building a brand name but it is certainly not as well known as L’Ville and such</p>
<p>That’s interesting. Although I have never heard of a case of buying guaranteed admission on the basis of buying a house, I know one kid here whose family lives right on the campus–I’m wondering if he underwent the same deal.</p>
<p>I never claimed Lawrenceville was ultra selective (after all, I got in, but that raises a whole different question :D)! I do know several very qualified kids (90s on the SSAT, good grades and commensurate ECs) who got rejected by Lawrenceville, so it’s not fair to say it’s easy to get in either. I personally think it’s a crapshoot once you get past a certain threshold because you will hear stories of Hotchkiss kids getting wailisted by Choate and Choate kids getting rejected by SPS and SPS kids getting waitlisted by Lawrenceville etc. Yes, connections, legacy, and $$$ help you get into BS, but typically the kids who do get in ARE qualified because they have been “trained” by their legacy parents to have Ivy-caliber credentials (private education favors the high income earners, who are typically top uni grads and who are more likely to send their kids to BS anyway). Moreover, the “low-performing” population probably only constitutes less than 1% of the student body, but even they are smart by uninflated standards–a 1850 SAT could be considered the very bottom at Lawrenceville but could very well be the score of a valedictorian at a public school. A guy in my dorm last year used to get straight As at his old private school and 80s on the SSAT but had to flunk out by the end of the year because he was failing at Lawrenceville. </p>
<p>After all, 4/5 of those who apply to our school will not gain acceptance, which is comparable to many USNews top 40 colleges.</p>
<p>@Alexander: I mean reputation of East Coast boarding schools.</p>