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@ newest newb.</p>
<p>The problem here is that weâve run into normative terms (deserving, worthy, etc.) which are highly subjective. Someone might personally think being taller means being more worthy. That sounds ludicrous, but you couldnât necessarily disprove them easily. Perhaps you would counter by stating that height and IQ (or perhaps height and income) are not correlated, to which the person could retort that IQ (or income) has nothing to do with âworthiness.â It begs the question, âWho is to say what constitutes worthiness?â</p>
<p>In other words, you only asked me âwhere does it state or even prove that having higher stats, ECs, etc makes you more deserving of a spot?â because you know that no one is able to universally âproveâ whether or not someone is âdeserving.â However, I guarantee that every single admissions officer in the Ivy League will use the combination of stats and ECs as a heuristic to determine if an applicant should receive serious consideration for admission. Other factors (recruit/legacy/minority status) may mitigate the importance of said combination, but it is still a critical factor in the admissions decision. For example, Ivy League schools are not allowed to admit athletes with an Academic Index of less than 171, and the only things that go into determining your AI are your test scores, GPA, and class rank.</p>
<p>Btw, I think I asked you a question first, and Iâll ask it again - what, if not those two factors, is supposed to play the primary role in determining the strength of your application to an Ivy League school?</p>
<p>sstewart, nit-picking at his words isnât a legitimate argument. When he means virtually, he actually means âabsolutelyâ. Regardless, his words arenât be all, end all. Just because he said âvirtuallyâ doesnât mean heâs correct. Dammit, I hate when people use childish arguements. Sorry sstewart.</p>
<p>Now to the point:</p>
<p>He seems to think heâs larger than life. It doesnât matter if the teacher went to a community college, he should be grateful that every teacher is dedicating his/her life to educating. Some people have gratitude and appreciation, no matter how âstupidâ or âuselessâ the teacher may be perceived as, they appreciate their teachers for how theyâve given back to the world and educated, something this guy needs to learn to do.</p>
<p>No one is inferior to that jerk, especially someone whose job revolves around receiving near minimum wage to educate the future. Sure, the teacher didnât attend an Ivy League school, but life gets to a point where it isnât about the university you graduated from, and the rank you were in your high school class, but the person you are. And Mr. Princeton graduate of 2014 wonât have anything to boast about when life comes down to that.</p>
<p>I hope he does get rescinded, and that he ends up going to community college. Itâll teach him a lesson, and deflate that damn big ego of his. </p>
<p>Also, tell him to read this thread and see what other Princeton students see him as: an *******.</p>
<p>God bless supersizeme:) and hey donât apologize I understand.</p>
<p>@Ray121988 Also I will answer your question I do agree that these things should be the determinant of whether you are seriously considered, BUT not guaranteed a spot of any sort. I hope that makes sense? Sorry I just got off work and am a little tired. lol</p>
<p>Sstewart, a hook is a hook. Coaches say to recruited athletes all the time, face-to-face, âYouâre bright but you most likely arenât getting in here without our support.â Of course people will get moreâŠsensitive when the hook has to do with ethnicity but itâs the same deal. Bottom-line is that, yes, concrete stats are the main factor in college admissions and âworthiness.â This is why in spite of being a recruited athlete myself nobodyâs going to be resentfully calling me a jock because I happen to have numerical credentials typical of an accepted unhooked applicant. Iâm sure in this case people would not feel a sense of resentment had she been top 5% and 34 ACT. This is not to say she isnât bright; I have no way of judging her as a person. But it does tell me that itâs pretty clear what got her into Columbia.</p>
<p>None of this changes the fact that his friend is a ****** and ignorant and probably doesnât have any personable skills. Because anyone with common sense would not be stupid enough to e-mail the teacher something like that. Going home and sending an e-mail to a teacher and saying it there and then out of anger are two different things. He had time to think about everything and still sent the e-mail, now thats just dumb. If his acceptance got rescinded Iâd probably laugh before I felt bad for him.</p>
<p>Remember, too, that some applicants are able to create near-perfect essays that allow the admissions staff to become convinced that they truly understand the applicant, and that the applicant has a great deal to offer to the university community. Other factors are not ignored, but a compelling essay humanizes the applicant, and can make the other factors fade. This is fundamentally why I think âchanceâ threads are silly, as no one on this site reads the essay, and certainly no one on this site reads the essay from the perspective of an admissions officer.</p>
<p>âI do agree that these things should be the determinant of whether you are seriously considered, BUT not guaranteed a spot of any sort.â</p>
<p>sstewart, what you say âmakes sense,â and I would certainly never say a good resume ought to guarantee you admission, but you seem to be deviating from what you implied earlier when you said âjust because one person had better stats, ECs,etc does not deem that person more worthy of a spot.â</p>
<p>Because of how you said that, naturally the bone I wanted to pick was NOT whether or not having great stats/ECs guaranteed you admission - it was whether or not those two factors enjoy primacy over other factors in determining your âadmissions fate.â</p>
<p>Note how I said earlier that having good stats/ECs make you âmore deservingâ of a spot, while just having good stats does not. That is nowhere near claiming that these people are âentitled to a spot.â</p>
<p>Sorry for misunderstanding your post Ray.</p>
<p>@sstewart Itâs good to know some people on the interwebs are open to admitting mistakes. Good on ya! :)</p>
<p>I have made many mistakes my friend, just go through my post history. lol But the real challenge was learning from them, and that I can say I have done.</p>
<p>I think your friendâs actions are ridiculous and unacceptable. First of all, itâs none of his business why some girl got admitted. Maybe she was a genius on the violin or a champion gymnast. Maybe she did something really huge for the community, made a program for disadvantaged children or something. Maybe her essays sounded like she would be the next Shakespeare or something. There are lots of reasons why people get admitted to Ivies - itâs not just based on pure numbers. Secondly, calling someone an affirmative action admit is beyond low. Thirdly, emailing the teacher? Really? I think said teacherâs action was perfectly reasonable, especially assuming that judging from his behaviour, this canât be the first time heâs done something like this. Itâs ridiculously disrespectful, and his contempt for people who went to âlowerâ colleges? I think thatâs exactly the kind of person that the Ivies are trying to distance themselves from. I think your friendâs chances are over.</p>
<p>Well, I am not defending the emailing teacher thing. I totally agree with you in that it would ABSOLUTELY wrong to send that email. </p>
<p>However, I can understand his frustration in this URM student getting into the school with bad stats. I do know this girl fairly well. We have been going to the same school since 1st grade, and she doesnt do band or any sport. Actually, her best award was national achievement scholar beyond that she only had only school awards (this is according to her). Now its true she may have written good essays. However, according to a Harvard admissions officer, âessays canât ressurect the dead.â Being outside the top 10 percent of the class would have instantly killed this applicant if she was white. I understand people get all touch-y when race was brought up, but she was indeed an affirmative action admit. Was pointing it out wrong? Ya, but I can absolutely see why my friend was bitter about her acceptance. </p>
<p>I really did not mean to get this thread to turn into an argument tho; I simply made it to get info for my friend who isnt on CC and wanted to know if he could get in trouble for acting out against the teacher. I really appreciate all your feedback.</p>
<p>So your friend wants to find out, after heâs already done something stupid, if it will get him in trouble?</p>
<p>Why didnât he ask this question before being a bonehead?</p>
<p>I donât want your friend at my school - clearly does not have the intelligence. Let him know that he belongs at a lower school.</p>
<p>Your friend is beyond egotistical. He had no right to talk down on where a TEACHER-- someone who makes more difference in the world every week than this kid probably will in his whole life-- went to school. If the teacher chooses to report this and get him rescinded, good. </p>
<p>On affirmative action: Many people do not take the time to think about what AA is, especially those who do not fall under the umbrella of URM status. I go to a relatively well known boarding school, and I have learned so much from late night conversations with my chilean roommate and afternoon lunches with my white friend from the Bahamas. My point being that colleges wants a diverse community. Would the girl have gotten in if she was white? Chances are slim. What about if she was a white legacy? Hmm more likely. What about a white legacy from Montana? Bingo. Hooks are hooks whether you like it or not. And then you have to face the fact that weâre all not competing <em>directly</em> against each other. Colleges look for a diverse class, so itâs harder for a South Korean when 11,000 apply. Just like itâs easier for an African-American applying against 2,500 other African-Americans. The numbers are fictitious but the idea remains the same. Colleges use quotas even if the do not directly admit to it. </p>
<p>Lastly, I encourage all of you to read Outliers, a best selling book by Malcolm Gladwell. It goes into good detail about benchmarks. Depending on this girls work ethic, sheâll be fine at Columbia with a 29 ACT. You donât have to have perfect scores to do well in college and, more importantly, after college. If colleges wanted applicants like that they could easily fill a class with only 5.0s and 2400s. All you have to do is be smart enough and clearly, in the eyes of the Columbia admissions staff, this girl is. After a certain point the question becomes, what else can you bring us? </p>
<p>As a white person with a significant hook myself, I support affirmative action (and all hooks for that matter). Mainly because Iâve witnessed the benefits at my prep school. If you take the time to really understand it, Iâm sure you will to. Now please tell your pretentious friend to go play in traffic or something. (Jk on the traffic part, people like him just really make me mad).</p>
<p>Disclaimer: wow, I didnât mean to rant, and please excuse the typos. I typed all of that on my cell phone. :)</p>
<p>That was well said.</p>
<p>Just a small factual correction:</p>
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<p>This is untrue. There arenât enough perfect scorers for any college to fill its class with them.</p>
<p>Oh, I remember this thread was posted somewhere else, too. The disrespect your friend shows for other students who achieve academic excellence is reprehensible, as is his disrespect of a teacher.</p>
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How? How is what he did even remotely okay? Verbally abusing and putting down another student in a racial manner is deserving of discipline.</p>
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Not everyone can afford the Ivy League, or the extensive prep required to achieve the grades and scores and ECs necessary. And impressive financial aid initiatives are very recent. Oh, and a community college only awards 2-year degrees, and a teacher needs a degree from a 4-year institution. Point is, the teacher is better educated than the student at this point, was on the right side of the issue, and shouldnât be abused.</p>
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I hope so. They âcouldâ, it is within their right, but they likely wonât.</p>
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Oh, Iâm sure Deep Springs could manage :)</p>