<p>First of all, it looks like my buddy wasn’t rescinded. He hasn’t heard anything at least.</p>
<p>Couple of things:</p>
<ol>
<li>Ssteward- </li>
</ol>
<p>You are joking yourself if you don’t think AA saved this girl in admissions. SHE WAS OUTSIDE OF THE TOP 10% of her class AND she didn’t have an ACT above a 30 (no, she didnt take the SAT). In addition, she doesn’t accel notably in any EC to justify her admission with this horrid (relative to Columbia’s normal admit’s stats) statistics. I would gladly bet quite a bit of money that this girl only got in because of Affirmative Action.</p>
<p>Yes, I would agree that this girl getting into Columbia is a HORRIBLE injustice when there are so many other people getting rejected who worked harder in school and actually had a presentable resume. I am sorry but I would deem it an injustice if ANYONE who was outside the top 10% of his/her class got into a top 10 school.</p>
<ol>
<li>Justadream:</li>
</ol>
<p>Ya, he was attempting to denigrate her accomplishments. Well, wait she really didn’t have any accomplishments to denigrate here. As I have said time and time again, I know this girl fairly well and there is absolutely nothing standout about her. She comes from a fairly affluent black family, doesnt do any sports/band, only had school-level awards, and doesn’t participate in many EC’s. She was bragging about her essays, and it ****ed my friend (and most the room off). Most people in the class were probably happy my friend shut her up.</p>
<p>Additionally, we may all be a bunch of hostile brats. However, we are a bunch of hostile brats who were actually in the top 5% of our class and scored over a 2300 on our SATs. Now, I agree it was wrong that my friend emailed the teacher, but calling the girl an AA admit isn’t that bad as she was being arrogant. Plus, she undeniably WAS an AA admit.</p>
<p>You clearly don’t mean what you’re actually saying. There is a difference between “only got in because of Affirmative Action” and “would not have gotten in if it had not been for Affirmative Action.” Even the latter is, of course, speculative, but I think that most people would agree with you, based on what you have shared with us. </p>
<p>Money4Life: Apparently the Columbia adcoms saw something in the girl that made them want her besides her ethnicity. Perhaps those essays were brag-worthy, as I personally know over a dozen African Americans with higher stats than her who were flat out rejected during Columbia’s ED season (my school is big on the Columbia hype - NY). </p>
Oh yes, admissions decisions should include instant disqualifications for numbers that mean different things for different people. Example: I know of no one from my school who has every gone to an Ivy League school. It is also very large. Therefore, I would assume a competitive applicant would have to be in the top 10% (or, likely, 5%). However, your school apparently has many Ivy-caliber students, making top 10% a different kind of achievement. Also, she could have written amazing essays, displaying something truly desirable about herself. You do not know. But even if you think affirmative action helped her, being insulting about it is uncalled for.</p>
<p>
Mediocre students are not admitted to Columbia. Even if a student is admitted partially due to affirmative action, the student would have to be academically qualified and a fit for the school. Columbia has enough minority applicants that affirmative action does not involve huge compromises.</p>
<p>Columbia may have had the opportunity to have a field day with the minority applicants that were flooding into their admissions office last winter. At the end of the day, there were numerically stellar minorities who were rejected and there were numerically dull minorities who were accepted. Affirmative Action cannot fervently be the culprit.</p>
<p>Fair point. We also live in a rural-esk state, so there may have been some benefit there. Additionally, maybe her essays were “amazing.” However, as a Harvard adcom told me, essays can’t ressurect that dead. This girl’s accademic credentials would have killed her off instantly if it wasn’t for AA. I again am confident there was nothing in her EC’s that would have saved her.</p>
<p>Silverturtle:</p>
<p>True, my apologies for phrasing that betting statement incorrectly. However, I think you knew the point I was trying to make there. That statement did sound absurd, I kind of got progressively angrier as I wrote that post. As a result, I said something I didn’t mean. I was wrong for writing that.</p>
Did the Harvard admissions officer speak about her, or are you just applying that statement to someone the Harvard admissions officer might not. Her academic credentials don’t sound as absolutely horrible as you say. 30 ACT is not a bad score. It is not an amazing score, but it is good, and shows a level of competence to predict success at Columbia, as I am sure her grades did (or she would not have been admitted). Affirmative action may have pushed her in (or it may not have), but she is certainly fully qualified to attend, and to be deemed as such by Columbia and invited to attend is a significant achievement.</p>
<p>Go onto the results threads on CC and tell me AA doesn’t result in “huge” compromises academically.</p>
<p>Where do you want to draw the line numerically then? Ok, so say my class size was 300 people. Over thirty people should be considered academically qualified for ivies from my class? Absolutely not. The only people attending ivies from my school are me, my friend, and this girl. We did have one kid get into MIT (not an ivy but w/e) and another get into Cornell, but both decided not to attend. We are a rigorious school, but not rigorious enough that being outside the top 10% is acceptable. Now, I will concede that kids at Andover or wherever may be able to get into ivies outside the top 10% but trust me this isnt the case at my school.</p>
<p>A little anomality, but you were speaking to just one Harvard adcom. Not a Columbia adcom. (not implying much of a difference in admissions policies, but still.) To the competitive applicant who’s number crazed, this girl may appear “dead.” Professional school representatives who call themselves admissions counselors arguably perceive applications differently.</p>
<p>No obviously the harvard admissions officer didnt say that about her specifically. However, I think most people would agree being outside the top 10% of your class would disqualify you from the ivies if you don’t attend a top prep school. I actually had a friend with a 32 on the ACT and a rank just inside of the top 10% of our class get flat out rejected from UNC Chapel Hill. She actually had some major acchievements like Girls Nation and numerous speech state championships. Plus, she is an AMAZING writer. </p>
<p>This columbia girl had a 29 on her ACT and was outside the top 10% of her class. If you believe she would have gotten in if she wasn’t a URM, I don’t know what to tell you other than you are kidding urself.</p>
<p>I agree that admissions reps view in many ways. I don’t doubt that they saw a girl as a guarenteed African admit from an underrepresented state. Thus, they admitted her. Its not so much the fact that her race got her in for me personally (I think it bugs my friend more). Its the fact that she comes from an affluent family and has had so much more given to her than many other families.</p>
I would rather trust a Columbia admissions officer to make that judgment than some spoiled-sounding kid crying about someone he didn’t like getting into an Ivy League school, insulting her in a racial matter, then cursing at a teacher. Columbia obviously deemed her academics as “acceptable” and indeed excellent enough to predict success at Columbia. They do not admit people who they feel cannot handle the work.</p>
<p>I am not specifically saying that affirmative action did not help her. I am saying that even if it did, her achievement was real and admirable, and she should not be insulted and accused of only being admitted because of her race.</p>
<p>I never implied such a thing. Let me reiterate: there are stellar applicants who are rejected from great schools and there are dull applicants who are accepted (this is all based on perception). Columbia could’ve picked the 35 ACT Black male from Texas over her. But they didn’t. You can’t simply base her acceptance entirely off of AA.</p>
<p>Okay. Affluency is a whole different issue, which I won’t go into tonight. But I see what you’re saying. I don’t want to comment on this girl any further without knowing the actual core facts of her history.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that no one will understand why she got in, and there is no point in trying to say it was because of AA, amazing essays, etc. Admissions do what they want and who are we to judge their decisions. Yes, there may be more qualified applicants, but that is not the case.</p>
<p>This thread left a very bad taste in my mouth.</p>
<p>The admissions decision of the girl aside, it’s a little disheartening (but a reality) that your friend made it through the cracks when he was admitted. The true injustice is that the Princeton grounds are going to be tainted this fall with the vitriol of some loose-mouth teenager spreading hate and creating barriers between groups of people.</p>
<p>OP, I don’t know your friend, but it sounds to me like he let some suppressed “racial feelings” escape from his mouth–sure, we can all just sweep “it” under the rug and call it the injustice of “affirmative action”. Slip of the tongue–we all have it, but when he gets to Princeton, is he going to go around assuming that every black student or hispanic student or other URM student he meets got in because of AA? I’m willing to bet money that he will encounter countless URMs who are more intelligent than he is.</p>
<p>Furthermore, who said that being in the top 10% of one’s graduating high school class…is a requirement for admission??? Please enlighten me because I would like to know.</p>
<p>P.S. I know several unhooked white applicants who are members of the Ivy League and were ranked outside the top 10%. But please do direct me to where 10% is a requirement for admission–I’m serious.</p>
<p>is he enrolling this fall? if so, then princeton most likely won’t rescind him. that’s just mean, since he won’t have a chance to apply elsewhere.</p>