I’m not a student. I’m a parent, so I’m not sure your reply applies to me. I respectfully disagree. There are many considerations. An important consideration is the mental health and well being of this generation of college students. That is my main concern. I think many of these schools are making political rather than rational and practical decisions.
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Covid can also have negative effects on mental health and well being, including being sick, missing classes, missing work and thus income for rent and other things, taking care of family members who get sick. I had students who had to move home or had to work extra hours to help support their families. It’s better now than it was last year, but I still get students who are taking care of sick family members or who have to go home for funerals.
This isn’t about politics. If anything it’s about money. Schools don’t want to have to go fully remote or start moving students around the residence halls for quarantine purposes.
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Yup, those are all good points. Complicated issues for sure.
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Sorry, I though that you were the OP responding to an earlier post of mine.
In any case, here is my response, modified to reflect your status as a parent:
My point is that you are not the person who is responsible for the health and safety of the students and staff. It is extremely easy for you to say “let students have more freedom”, since you will not be held responsible for people who die or who suffer from long-term health problems.
You have a very limited set of considerations - you want a more pleasant undergraduate experience for your child. You are not responsible for anybody else, and you will not have to pay the price if you are wrong.
Think not only of your child who is (hopefully) young and healthy. Think of the students who are more vulnerable. Think of the faculty and staff who are actually the ones who run the University. Everything that your child gets at their university is the result of the labor and thought of thousands of people. They are almost all older and more vulnerable than your child, and the policies and actions of a university need to take them into consideration just as much as they need to take your child’s needs and perceived needs into consideration.
My point is that the university is not just your kid and their friends, walking around campus. My point is that faculty and staff are not just background props for your kid’s College Experience.
My point is that the restrictions that Brown take this into consideration and it is far less likely that Brown faculty, staff, and vulnerable students will die or suffer from long-term health issues from COVID that they contract on campus than the Faculty, staff, and students at UVA.
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Not really. That would depend on the degree of community transmission, the age of the faculty at Brown vs UVA, and other factors. Several studies indicate transmission is unlikely in classrooms, so when faculty or staff acquire covid, it is more likely due to their non-work activities.
I’m actually very interested to see the studies that show transmission in college classrooms is unlikely. Can you provide a link or two?
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Transmission is happening in some classrooms. I can’t say how many but it is already happening at my kid’s school.
Some faculty and students are vulnerable. Schools have money and public relations concerns (which this OP demonstrates) and have to balance that with that vulnerability. And unknown vulnerabilities since previously healthy folks also get really sick.
I would not want to be an administrator at this moment.
Your error is in assuming that faculty walk into a classroom, stay behind a barrier, talk, and walk out. That is not how it works, college clssrooms are not K-12 classrooms.
In fact, most studies that have demonstrated low transmission in classrooms have been of K-12 classrooms, which are more orderly, enforcement of masking is far easier, and, most importantly, they are populated by kids in the age range in which infection and transmission is lowest.
Moreover, student behavior affects community levels of COVID. Outbreaks in colleges areas are generally driven by outbreaks among students. You can see the uptick in cases in Columbus, OH, after football games, or after weekends when there are other reasons for the students to party.
I would like to also point out that the majority of the people who work at universities are not faculty. Administrative workers, custodial workers, food service workers, etc, outnumber faculty, and cannot avoid contact with students.
They deserve consideration as well, and are way to often treated as props.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10255842.2020.1869221
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It goes the other way around too. Faculty/staff should be considerate of the students as well. It’s a two way street.
Just looked at my kid’s university COVID 19 data. 95% of students are vaccinated and just under 80% of faculty/staff.
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I absolutely agree. I think that there is even less justification for faculty to avoid getting vaccinated. I also think that faculty should be more considerate of staff, which isn’t always the case.
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I agree. The students at residential colleges have more restrictions that are pervasive in their lives than do the faculty and staff.
Meaning for the students, their restrictions are at school, their activities, and ‘home’, whereas once the faculty and staff leave campus they don’t have the same restrictions…they don’t have to mask, they can go to gatherings/parties unchecked, as can all the people the faculty and staff might live with…and some are certainly living in congregant settings.
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Frankly I think parents and residential college students are sick of being subjected to far more stringent restrictions than any other citizen in the surrounding town. Presumably the mayor and governor are worried about their citizens as well, many of whom are far more vulnerable than college kids. And yes, I know there are immunocompromised college kids, but there are far more in the older non college population than on campus. Local and state regulations should be sufficient for universities to follow. K12 schools can wear masks to class, so can college kids. But enough with restrictions on gatherings and eating
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The parents who are screaming that students are suffering from the restrictions will likely be the same parents who, when a student dies from COVID they contracted on campus, will scream that “WHY DIDN’T THE UNIVERSITY PROTECT THEM!!!”
Most towns are subject to pressures from businesses which prioritize profits over employee safety, as well as citizens who prioritize their own convenience and comforts over the health and safety of others. The are therefore less willing to enact and enforce the rules and actions that are actually required to protect people.
The
No. They are worried about campaign contributions and reelection. When over 1,000 students gathered in a mass party in Columbus, OH, off campus, the Columbus Police were instructed to let them party, even though they were crowding, maskless, turning over cars and more.
So much for the mayor “caring”.
Again you are ignoring the staff.
Gatherings and eating is where COVID is transmitted most. Students remove masks outdoors and get really close, and they remove masks while eating.
Why in heaven’s name do you think that colleges are having restrictions? DO you think that, somehow, the administration is benefitting from them? Do you think that they enjoy this?
Seriously, people, it’s not Rocket Surgery.
They want fewer sick and fewer dead, and, unlike parents and students, they are responsible for EVERYBODY on campus.
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And in addition to public safety (colleges students are much more likely to crowd together in a small house for packed parties, for example), there’s a public relations aspect.
In my college town, like in so many others, the “locals” have a love-hate relationship with the students. There are already feelings that students are out-of-control, don’t have ties to our community, don’t take public safety seriously, etc…
When tens of thousands of temporary residents descended on the community in August, mandates for vaccination, masking, and social distancing were good for public, as well as community, relations.
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Harvard Business School has an outbreak: from the Washington Post
The business school has moved most of its classes online after a surge of cases linked to unmasked indoor socializing. According to the Wall Street Journal, students are also being asked to “stop unmasked indoor activities, limit in-person interactions with others outside their household, move group gatherings online and cancel all group travel.”
Sounds a little hyperbolic, but I guess that’s the way all these conversations.
Yes, the HBS response was what was described as “draconian” upstream somewhere.
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The likelihood of vaccinated college students dying from a break through infection is close to zero. The adults who work at the college will be exposed to covid at any workplace they go to, and that alternative workplace may very well have a lower vax rate than the college. So unless you think every staff member can work remotely forever ( dining, custodial, groundskeeping?), the staff is better off on a vaxxed campus than elsewhere.
HBS had high outbreak numbers last year as well. The adults ( average age close to 30) who attend value social interaction and networking highly, and often live off campus so are not subject to university restrictions.
Perhaps you find local political leaders insufficiently concerned about public health ( in some places I do) but they are likely reflecting the risk tolerance level of the public they represent. In contrast, academic leaders are famously risk averse and slow to adapt.
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My heart goes out to you. My daughter is a freshman (class of 2025) at an east coast private university and the excessive heat in the small smelly dorms was definitely tough for the first few weeks. The food is not great. However, the restrictions at Brown do sound harsh. D’s school mandated vaccines, so masks not required on campus unless the professor in a certain class requests it. Most do not. Covid cases have remained very low. The more liberal the institution, the more strict the mandates will be, so remember this, high school seniors, when choosing your colleges. Fortunately, the Merck antiviral pill will very likely help us get out of this pandemic hell over the next several months. Hang in there, Bananarwpublicclass, and know that you are not alone. Stay at Brown - you worked hard to get there and the grass usually is not greener on the other side. You will come out of this stronger for what you endured. College life is usually romanticized and the reality is that you will get out of it what you put into it. Get out there and meet people and join every club you can, go to sporting events, hang out on campus away from your dorm room. I wish you and all the college students during this pandemic happiness and health. It WILL get better!
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I think it worth noting once again that almost all Covid restrictions have now been lifted at Brown (imposed for 10 days in response to an outbreak) and OP has moved on.
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