CS70 vs CS61a

Transfer Students UC Transfers
1

<p>In order to make my application as appealing as possible, I thought it would be best to concurrently enroll at UC Berkeley during this upcoming semester. I have already submitted my application and since they will only see classes and not grades for my next semester, having another pre-req (neither CS70 nor CS61a are offered at my cc) under my belt would help. </p>

<p>Do UC admissions officers hold any preference to which pre-reqs show up on my transcript? </p>

<p>p.s. I have another thread that has gone unanswered for several days now. I would greatly appreciate it if you could take the time and review it!</p>

2

<p>Are either of them pre-reqs for higher level classes? If not I would take the easiest one for obvious reasons.</p>

3

<p>I’d say 61A is a bit better to have, assuming you’ll need to make up 61B and 61C as well. CS70 isn’t really a pre-req to anything… only classes that come to mind are 161 and 170. A lot of the upper divs will want 61ABC though. Of course, pre-reqs aren’t actually enforced, so that won’t make a huge difference if you know the material.</p>

<p>Both classes are pretty popular, though, so you might not be able to get a seat in the class of your choice. Remember to pick an unpopular section (8am or after 6pm are great)… it’ll help you get in and they don’t usually care which section you actually attend.</p>

<p>Also, Hilfinger’s got 61A this fall, he’s notorious for being pretty tough, so if you care about your GPA CS70 might be a bit safer. It sounds like you already applied… so a warning on that: for me (EECS, ~2 years ago) terms and conditions said to keep a 3.0+ semester/quarter GPA for every term after Fall. So, grades do still matter, and if you take on too much it could leave you in a bad spot.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider, assuming you get in, is Summer session. CS70, CS61ABC, and EE40 are usually offered, and that can help you catch up on pre-reqs… it makes scheduling a bit easier. I doubled up 61A and 61BL the summer before I transferred, wouldn’t recommend doing that. :stuck_out_tongue: Transfer Edge is a good thing to look at if you go that route.</p>

4

<p>Lol Hilfinger for CS61A next semester >_<</p>

<p>Good luck dude, I was in CS61B with him this fall, people got absolutely wrecked D:</p>

<p>First midterm, average 5.4 out of 17</p>

<p>So many people at the Soda Hall lab / dungeon ~2AM, especially near the end.</p>

5

<p>My community college (Diablo Valley College) has articulations for CS61B and CS61C, which I will have completed at the time of transfer. CS61A and CS70 are the only courses which my cc doesn’t offer, as well as el eng 20/40. All four of those courses are not pre-reqs I just realized, they’re just strongly recommended courses. </p>

<p>With that said, would it still be best to take CS61A under concurrent enrollment over CS70?</p>

6

<p>As someone who have taken computer science courses at CC and at Berkeley, I can tell you that it is a world of difference at Berkeley.</p>

<p>I have taken both CS61A and CS70 so I can tell you about them.</p>

<p>In CS61A, they will throw higher order functions at you right away and expect you to master it quickly, or else you will fall behind.</p>

<p>There are four projects in 61A, first is a game and should be straightforward. Second and third projects are relatively easy, but can be tricky if you are not familiar with OOP. The fourth project is the absolute killer, where you basically make a Scheme interpreter. People spend hours / days just to grok the skeleton code.</p>

<p>You will actually learn 3 languages, Python, Scheme and a Berkeley-flavor Logic language.</p>

<p>The tests are reasonable, but the final can be a doozy (people consistently get 50%).</p>

<p>CS61A is not curved, but you need 278 points out of 300 to get an A, which is 92.66%… So you basically need to get perfect on all of the projects and homeworks and be able to get A’s in tests like this <a href=“http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/fa13/exams/61a-fa13-final.pdf[/url]”>http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/fa13/exams/61a-fa13-final.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Since it’s Hilfinger teaching it, expect everything above to be 100% harder. If you feel confident about your computer science skills, you can try to do CS61A w/ Hilfinger, but people at Berkeley avoid him like the plague (unless they are trying to declare into the major). One thing though is that CS61A is so standardized so Hilfinger might not go as crazy like he did in CS61B this fall.</p>

<p>In CS70, you learn will absolutely nothing about programming, but you will learn a lot about computer science. CS70 is about logic, proofs (absolutely big), stable marriage, RSA, graphs, counting, probability & inference, and computability. </p>

<p>CS70 is often the hardest lower-div class for CS & EECS outside of Hilfinger-classes. It is a very math-rigorous course and if you have never seen the stuff in the list above, you will likely struggle. Just to give you a taste, here is the test that I had to take: <a href=“http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~thomasw/cs70/exam3.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~thomasw/cs70/exam3.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>So take CS61A w/ Hilfinger if you feel adventurous, otherwise brush up on your discrete math skills and take your chances with CS70.</p>

<p>Also if I were you, do not use the courses at your CC to articulate CS61B and CS61C. Take the two at Berkeley because I guarantee that you will learn a lot more at Berkeley.</p>

7

<p>Regardless of whether something is pre-req or strongly recommended for admissions, it’s a requirement after you transfer. You will need to take them all. So if you’re serious about Berkeley, pretty secure about getting in, and have space in your schedule, getting ahead could be good. And of course having strongly recommended classes (and good grades in them) looks good, and it helps your app, but it sounds like you’re doing okay there already.</p>

<p>Back to your question: If you’ve got 61B and 61C covered, it doesn’t make a huge difference which you take. Just… keep the GPA thing in mind. Doesn’t matter if it’s a Berkeley class or a CC one, you’ll still be expected to keep a 3.0+ semester GPA.</p>

<p>From a different angle, what do your backup schools want? I assume Berkeley’s not the only school you applied to, even if it’s the end goal. Have you taken discrete math before, or would 70 help your app at other schools? I assume you’ve got CS1 covered at non-Berkeley schools.</p>

<p>As for ktklam9’s point on retaking 61B/C… personally, I wouldn’t. Take a look at the syllabuses, and the projects or exams. Does it look like you’ll learn anything new? If not, take the credit and go for classes where you’ll learn new things. None of my CS articulated… I knew a majority of the 61B material already, I wish I could have skipped it.</p>

<p>Also, classes are all curved. Even the ones that say they aren’t are based on old curves. They’ve used the projects before, they know how students’ll do on things, they can predict the distribution pretty accurately.</p>

<p>For reference:
Hilfinger 61A grade distribution: <a href=“https://charts.myedu.com/00000136/course/000000444315/prof/000000474780/detail.png[/url]”>https://charts.myedu.com/00000136/course/000000444315/prof/000000474780/detail.png&lt;/a&gt;
Harvey 61A grade distribution: <a href=“https://charts.myedu.com/00000136/course/000000444315/prof/000000474773/detail.png[/url]”>https://charts.myedu.com/00000136/course/000000444315/prof/000000474773/detail.png&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>That said, Hilfinger is still known to be tougher, his class tends to be more stressful and require more work. But in terms of grades, statistically speaking you’ll be okay… you’ll just have to work more.</p>

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<p>@ktklam9 I think that I would probably do better in cs61A than in cs70. However, do you think that taking cs61A at Berkeley and taking the equivalent of physics 7b at my cc would be too much of a work load? My other courses consist of a history course and an assembly course, both of which I am not too concerned about in terms of not doing well. </p>

<p>However, the physics course that I am taking at my cc is taught by Speliotopoulos who also teaches physics at Berkeley. Do you have any experience with him and do you think taking two hard courses at the same time would be too much?</p>

<p>The only experience I have with Berkeley courses is a math 54 course I took over the summer, which I admit was challenging but from what you say is not even close in comparison to other eecs required courses.</p>

<p>@failure622 The interesting thing is that although I have already taken discrete at my cc, it satisfies Math 55 at Berkeley and not CS70. I took the discrete course at my cc because it does satisfy the discrete requirement of other UC’s and I thought that it would give me a head start into cs70. However, after reading what ktklam9 said about cs70 I still do not feel prepared. </p>

<p>CS61A and cs70 are both Berkeley unique courses, which makes me unsure as to which would look better on an application.</p>

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<p>You can find out more about the Berkeley courses here:
[EECS</a> Course WEB Sites](<a href=“http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/classes-eecs.html]EECS”>CAS - Central Authentication Service)</p>

<p>If you are not completely sure about your CC’s courses for 61B and 61C, you can take a look at the Berkeley course information to see how what you learned stacks up.</p>

10

<p>@DubbTom:</p>

<p>I don’t think taking either early would help your application unless you are sure you can get an A in them.</p>

<p>As far as discrete math at a CC vs. Berkeley’s discrete math, it is no comparison. CS70 prepares you for CS170 and other upper div courses, where a discrete math at a CC really does not prepare you for anything (at least where I took it).</p>

<p>As far as I know most CS upper div at Berkeley wants you to have CS70 over Math 55.</p>

<p>Just keep in mind that an A at Berkeley is one standard deviation above the average. Also, EECS at Berkeley curves all pre-req lower-div courses to 2.5 [Grading</a> Guidelines for Undergraduate Courses | EECS at UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Policies/ugrad.grading.shtml]Grading”>Grading Guidelines for Undergraduate Courses | EECS at UC Berkeley)</p>

<p>You should really take both B & C at Berkeley, especially CS61B because it prepares you the most for what you will see in the upper-div courses and in your career (if you go into CS).</p>

<p>From my experience w/ Hilfinger this semester for CS61B, you do not want to have both the Physics and the assembly course along with his course.</p>