<p>Just wanted to add to the above post about AADA - </p>
<p>St John's will accept all of your AADA credits towards a BA, but they do not have a theatre degree. The BA there would be in film and television. Hunter College in NYC is another school with which AADA has an agreement as far as accepting their credits. Hunter has a theatre degree - but no musical theatre. My son found other programs, as well, that would accept most, if not all, of his AADA credits. So an AADA graduate is not limited to those few programs that have a formal transfer agreement.</p>
<p>Johnsmom - am guessing that your son is looking into MT programs rather than theatre?</p>
<p>Johnsmom,
You might want to try UArts as I know of a girl (a previous grad) who also
left CCM. She has said that she absolutely LOVED her transfer time at UArts. Again it's all about the fit with both student/school and school/student.<br>
I'm so sorry/sad to hear of this kind of news - GOOD LUCK to your S!</p>
<p>I believe there was a girl posting here a couple of years ago who had been cut by Arizona and was accepted at BOCO after doing professional voice work in Asia for some time. Like well over a year. I believe her user name was Samia. Worth checking out ...</p>
<p>There were several students cut from my class during our freshman year who have all gone on to be successful elsewhere and are very happy. A majority of my class still keeps in contact with them. </p>
<p>That being said, I think it's important to realize and understand that no one on this board knows the true circumstances surrounding any cuts made by CCM's MT department. </p>
<p>CCM does not cut a to certain amount (nor is it gender specific), so this "neatly made cut" was not intentional. As one can see from my previous posts, I have a lot of pride in the program and would recommend it to anyone that I felt had a healthy, hardworking, goal-oriented mindset. </p>
<p>Students are NOT cut at CCM for an inability to achieve perfection in voice, acting, or dance. I can attest that ALL students have strengths and weaknesses, and while it is the faculty's PAID POSITION to make us aware of these, it is inevitably up to the student to take their education into their own hands. </p>
<p>I think the original poster handled this topic very maturely and professionally, so by no means is this targeted towards one specific person. It is merely food for thought.</p>
<p>JLactor, I appreciate the respectful and mature posts you have written. </p>
<p>One thing I don't quite understand about the nature of the cuts at some programs like CCM is that if it is not about voice, acting, or dance talent, as you state, but it is for other reasons....work ethic? something else?....how come at some of these programs, students are cut who have A's and B's in studio classes? How do you attain As and Bs but then get cut after the final review? I'm not sure I get the criteria for cutting if it is not talent/skills based but is more about effort/work ethic/etc., but yet the student has good grades in the classes. Do they tell you at the beginning of the year what criteria needs to be met in order to not be cut?</p>
<p>JohnsMom -- Syracuse accepts transfers. Students do have to take freshman acting classes, but some of your other credits may apply. My daughter has several friends who have transferred into the program, and they have been able to do it in less than 4 years. Call the BFA Theater department and they will give you more specific info.</p>
<p>I apologize for my previous cynical posting, since none of us truly know the circumstances except for the parties involved. The original poster has shown a true sense of maturity and professionalism. I think the lesson we, as readers of this board, can gain from this is to get a back-up, worst case scenario plan in place well before the final cuts are made in a program that does actually institute cuts. I'm sure the whole audition/acceptance process is a leap of faith for the students AND colleges involved. I just hope that kids who are truly putting forth their best efforts aren't the ones being cut from these programs. That would be so devastating for our children!</p>
<p>How frustrating for your son and for you, JohnsMom! We know someone who was also cut after his freshman year a few years ago. Having worked with him onstage and backstage on a professional level, I can say he was extremely talented; his dance was at the level of the professional full-time dancers in the show, his acting and singing off the charts. He was told by one instructor that it was his attititude, but we had only seen a great attitude- always stepped in to help, positive, professional, etc. We were shocked when he was cut.</p>
<p>He ended up at AMDA, who, BTW now offers a BFA in musical theater. They have rolling admissions so lost time may not be such a factor. It may be worth looking into. Good Luck!</p>
<p>I really wish we could find out why this happens so that we could provide guidance to our children, especially those that are entering programs that have cuts. While at some of the larger programs cuts are part of the process due to numbers I suspect that at most schools it is not. I further suspect that the reason that one is let go from a program is not a complete surprise to the student. If the faculty does not clearly point out your flaws and try and provide guidance then they are at fault. However, if you are constantly tardy, disruptive, lazy, have a bad attitude I don't think you're going to pass your boards no matter how talented you are. For whatever reason (and there are probably 20 more I didn't list) if you give them a reason to not like you, you will struggle.
This post is not intended to pile on to the OP, my deepest sympathy goes out to you, it's just an opinion as to why these things happen. I also don't think that people should focus on a backup plan unless you're at a school where it's a numbers game. Finally, before anyone signs up for a program, whether there are cuts or not should be one of your first questions.</p>
<p>Focusing on a backup plan while you are still a student at your current school and are trying to meet expectations puts a student in an untenable position. How in the world can you give 110% commitment at your current school if you have concluded that you have one foot out the door and need to give 110% effort to auditioning elsewhere.</p>
<p>In addition, MTDad777, I think that what has a lot of people concerned about any kind of "cut system", even one not based on numbers, is that you can be a student who is on time, dedicated, good work ethic, even superior grades in performance classes and still find yourself "cut" for reasons that are either unexplained or are based on considerations that have no legitimate role in an "educational" format (such as a prediction of whether the student will be employable after graduation, will the student enhance the schools senior show case etc).</p>
<p>I so agree with so much that has been said here about school being a time to get your training/education and with the exception of poor effort/attendnce/attitude/grades, dismissal from a program should be a decision reached with lots of input and warning. Just basing dismissal on Juries is tough...</p>
<p>That gives me the opportunity to bring up how frustrating it is to me to have entrance INTO a program be based on a 3-15 minute time spent with a stranger. If you are trying to get a job, it makes more sense, but if you are looking to be come better at what you want to do, how can even really good, smart, talented staff recognize the POTENTIAL in a person in so short a time? What they really see is a single performance under very stressful circumstances. Kids who have a lot of training have an advantage, kids who have some and dearly want more intense training don't always get to show their TRUE potential. I do understand that is the nature of the beast... It is hard to find any other kind of process (do schools go out recruiting?) to get into programs whether BA BFA two year training. But I am rambling and really on the wrong thread!!!!! :-)</p>
<p>M-Kat - I find it difficult to believe (but certainly possible) that a school would cut a student for "unexplained reasons". I would confidently speculate that the 4 kids cut from CCM know exactly why. It's also possible that they didn't tell their parents the entire story. As much as I hate the concept, if the kids and parents are aware going in that they could be cut for not passing their juries then that's the risk you take. I would never recommend colleges that have these policies. I certainly agree too that the review process and cut policies should be documented and explained to both parents and students prior to any offer to attend school.</p>
<p>MTDad - Unfortunately, it does appear to happen. If you go review the threads on cuts, there are reports from several students about doing well in their classes and then getting cut based on their juries without ever being advised in advance that they are at risk. University of Arizona is one that sticks out (where you can get cut either because the school sees someone in a freshman or transfer audition they like better and they want to make room or because the school concludes that you don't have "professional potential" even though you are doing well in your performance classes). DePaul also comes to mind as one that cuts "by the numbers" so that there is no reason of substance other than that the school matriculates more students than it really intends to keep.</p>
<p>The problem is that many schools with cut policies really are not transparent either in disclosing that a jury is used to determine whether you can stay in a program or in disclosing what criteria are used to determine whether you have passed your jury or not. I, like you, would never recommend a school with a cut policy. (And for those reading this, remember, we are not talking about a "screw up" policy where a student is asked to leave for failing to be a dedicated serious student who demonstrates growth.)</p>
<p>snoggie, yes, it <em>is</em> frustrating to think that so much (for our purposes, admission into a college BFA program) rides on an audition that lasts only between five and fifteen minutes. As a professor at one program put it "Auditions are an imperfect tool for this task, but they are the only tool we have." I think that's true. Some programs (such as Juilliard and University of Minnesota's Guthrie Actor Training Program) do spend more time (an entire weekend in both cases) with the top candidates that they find in the larger (and quicker) audition setting. But most programs don't use this approach and apparently feel that the approach they use (quicker auditions) still yield very talented students who are successful in the program and in the working world. Bottom line: auditions may not be perfect, but they are the system by which actors are, in the case of college, admitted and in the case of the "real world," cast.</p>
<p>MTdad - please - you don't think that arbitrary decisions get made at colleges? You think every professor everywhere is perfectly fair? You don't think personalities and little private agendas don't happen in college? I agree strongly with earlier posters that kids who are earning A's and B's in their degree classes and are getting cut by juries are being done a huge disservice. And I think this board is performing a huge beneficial service by telling others about what is really happening in these programs.</p>
<p>My guess is that faculty at schools which cut students don't take the task lightly and do their best to administer the cuts as fairly as possible. That said, I remain puzzled as to how a student who is earning A's and B's in studio classes (which are performance based!) can be judged "cutworthy" even if they do a less-than-stellar job during juries. It seems to me that if professors have had a chance to see a student being successful in studio classes to the tune of A's on his or her report cards, that would at least counterbalance one lousy performance on a jury and allow the kid to be in the program. (In other words, the professors would know, from experience, what the student is really capable of and keep him or her.) Of course, if a student has the habit of choking during a jury or audition, that is something that the school should help the student work on. It just puzzles me that a four minute jury would counterbalance/outweigh hours and hours of (in the case of a student earning A's and B's) successful performances in the classroom.</p>
<p>Few on this board seem to have taken the time to acknowledge that perhaps the student is at fault. I have been witness to tardiness, laziness, and poor attitude in the classroom that has resulted in a student's dismissal from the program. This does not include the actions of the student OUTSIDE the classroom in a college setting, where there is no parental supervision (the first time for some) and a student is able to partake in ANY activity they so chose. Because we are actors, our bodies and minds are our most precious tools; lack of care for one's physical health becomes apparent very quickly. Has no one considered this?</p>
<p>I find it quite unfair to blame the faculty of a program, in this case CCM, for circumstances of which they know nothing about. It would be very easy for any poster to fabricate details of a story, grades, etc. </p>
<p>Also, students are often warned of their future but choose to dismiss this warning. If you have an unsatisfactory fall board, that is a CLEAR warning that your place in the program is in jeopardy. Some overlook these warnings because of ego or an idea that the faculty is "just pushing them." </p>
<p>If one has never spent time inside the walls of CCM, I find it very difficult to comment on the program, its alleged unfairness, and the decisions of its faculty. I know nothing of the goings on at programs like UMich, CMU, or BOCO so I chose not to comment on them. And yes, I have friends at all these programs and we often compare, but I do not have any firsthand experience. Knowing a student in the program is not enough be an authority on the subject, in my opinion.</p>
<p>Please be careful not to see just what you want to see because a LARGE number of posters DID list the possibility that effort/tardiness/etc might be a reason for dismissal...</p>
<p>But JL, if a student was being tardy, lazy, inattentive, etc., that student presumably would not be earning A's and B's, right? I don't think anyone here quarrels with the notion that a student who is not doing the work (or even trying to do the work) being cut. Such a student (after being given a warning) deserves to lose her place to someone who wants to be there. But students who are showing up and doing work and earning A's and B's are still cut, and there's the rub. That's what I don't comprehend. I wish someone would explain that.</p>