I realize the issue of cut programs has been discussed on CC but think it would be helpful to updated information for the upcoming audition year. For example, I understand DePaul is no longer a cut program. According to the website, they admit 32 into the program with the expectation that 32 will graduate but continuance in the program is evaluated at the end of each year (a cut program or simply another way of saying there are annual juries?). Any updated information on MT/Theater cut programs would be very useful!
I think most programs evaluate with juries. I believe the definition of a cut program is a program that has a set limit on the number of students that will continue in the program. For example, the program lets 30 Freshman into the program but will only allow 10 to continue in the program as Sophomores. If you are number 11, you are out.
I think Arizona and CSUF are still cut programs.
Arizona is not a cut program. My daughter applied and was accepted to the BFA MT program a couple years ago. We spent 2 days on campus and asked detailed questions about this. Like most BFA programs, if you are not meeting the requirements of the program, they told her that you might be asked to leave, however, they hope that all the students they accept as freshman will make it through the 4 year program.
@ButterflyFX If that is the case, then it is a definite change in policy at Univ. of Arizona. It was definitely a cut program for many years. There are several discussions, although no recent ones, in the Univ. of Arizona dedicated forum about this issue. Is your D a student there?
Millikin has a cut program. At the end of freshman year, a certain number of MT students are notified BY EMAIL that they may continue in the BFA program and must drop out or select another major. It happens in late April, I believe, when there’s no chance of auditioning at another program. This happened to a friend of my D’s last spring. I’m sure she knew the risk going in, but it’s basically a waste of an entire year of tuition and time.
I’m not sure if it’s still the case, but I believe that both BoCo and Ithaca are cut programs…though I don’t think they use the expression “cut program”…however…it is essentially what they are. Or have been in the past.
Ithaca has a review program every semester for the first two years. So, the kids go through 4 reviews. They either continue you, put you on probation (artistic or professional probation, or, sometimes both), or they can discontinue you. All of this is laid out in detail on their web site. They will occasionally suggest that someone move from MT into Acting. In my D’s class, one Acting major was asked to leave the BFA program after his/her sophomore year. This was out of 22 MTs and 26 (?) Acting majors. The student had been put on probation every semester prior, and the school had tried to encourage her/him to look into other majors. After the discontinuation, the student stayed at Ithaca in the BA program. Last year there was one freshman who was asked to leave after his/her first semester, due to (from what I understand) major work ethic issues (leaving school for a week on end, not attending classes, no attending rehearsals, etc.). That student transferred. Ithaca calls this a review program. In my mind, what good is a review system if there are no repercussions? If someone is not trying, bringing down the morale of the class, or simply not suited for the work, then they shouldn’t be in the program. I think the “cut system” that people might be referring to is the arbitrary dismissal of students based on a number. Like the program Emerson USED TO have. They no longer do it, but when my D applied there, they cut the sophomore class down to 16, no matter how many kids they had. So, if they had 19 fabulous kids by the end of sophomore year, 3 would get cut anyway.
I do not believe BoCo has a cut program. But virtually all the schools have a review system, as they should.
Glad to know that about Millikin @Bogeyw
I would think someone would def need to know that info before going there. I wonder how many students that happens to on average. I agree a pickle you’d be in for sure if there is no other major at the school you’re interested in!
I agree with @monkey13
All schools should have a review system. This is not the same as a “cut system” based on getting to certain number.
Ditto w/ @monkey13 … we asked about a cut program at every school D applied to/auditioned at.
If they didn’t have a formal cut program, every single one said that, over the years, they have asked students to leave the program. Top answers of why: 1. Work ethic and 2. Creating unnecessary drama
Truth be told, I was kinda shocked to hear that #2 answer - and I heard it a few times. Not shocked that it would happen, but shocked that the schools would admit to it.
One of the major differences I see with college (public and private) as a whole is that attendance is seen as a privilege, not a right. If a kid is a problem, they don’t want them there- and they don’t “have” to keep them the way HS (esp public HS) does
@KaMaMom, my D and I were getting a tour backstage from one of the Matilda actors shortly after it opened, and he said: “If you’re a girl in the business, and you create drama or are a diva, you only get one chance. Do it once, and you’ll never work again. If you’re a boy, you get three chances.” So, good on the schools who don’t tolerate it now…b/c it’s a lesson that they all have to learn.
Along a similar line, some of the schools admit that they “make mistakes.” It is so hard to really know what someone is like after a short audition. If they make a mistake they should be able to remedy it.
I was just thinking about that @monkey13 the other day. About in an audition you only have such a short time to evaluate the student. I know they evaluate the application and resume to see past experiences etc but I was thinking how really difficult that must be to make those choices and surely they must make some mistakes
At Montclair they will not throw you out because THEY made a mistake. I mean, how fair is that? “Oh, you had a crackerjack audition, but you really fooled us! So, get outta here, and yes, it is too late to transfer this year, and gee, yes, it is too bad you didn’t go to that other school you also got into. So good luck starting all over again!” We were told at Montclair that if they accept you, they commit to you, though the head of MT said that every year they lose a few who realize they aren’t cut out for this. And they could get thrown out for other things, like one year a boy was expelled for selling pot (I know, right?). YES they have juries, YES they get a lot of feedback, and yes they could get a bad grade. But they aren’t going to send you on your way if you are doing the work if for some reason they realize they really probably should have taken that OTHER tall brunette soprano because jeez, how did we not realize you can’t act your way out of a paper bag? What’s the worst that can happen? The kid doesn’t make it in the business? They still have a college education and could do something else with theater that doesn’t involve performing. These are KIDS and it’s hard enough for them to try to rectify their own mistakes. If they get less than stellar feedback in their juries, they may think twice about continuing, may even transfer out of the major. But if they don’t want to, I don’t think they should be forced to.
I don’t think anyone should be forced out either. I’m just saying that there are bound to be a few choices , albeit only a few, who were not perhaps a good choice and that ends up not being shown until later in the game.
I think the mistake would be on work ethic and/or attitude which is hard to know with a few minute audition.
What I hear (from a kid who sits in on auditions) is that diva-hood is fairly easy to spot, even in a couple minute audition. They’re also watching the moms, so be nice.
@alwaysamom - My daughter ended up deferring college, however, we have a friend who graduated from the program about 8 years ago, so we had a lot of first hand knowledge, plus we asked a lot of questions before the on-campus visit and during. Per the department professor who my daughter auditioned for, we were told that it is absolutely NOT a cut program. i.e: there are no quotas that would prevent a class of 24 freshman from becoming graduating seniors. The program head pointed out that students sometimes leave the program for their own reasons - and when you only start with 20 or 24, if 4 or 5 leave, that is significant. He told us there is the occasional student who does not live up to the demands of the program who might be told they would not move forward as a BFA (they could opt to continue in the BA) - but that is no different than many of the BFA programs mentioned here on CC (see KaMaMom above)
We spent a day on campus and sat in on 3 theatre classes and my daughter was able to talk to many freshman, sophomores and juniors. The students were friendly and helpful and she has remained in contact with many of them. We saw their spring musical, and were allowed to sit in on first night of tech for a Shakespeare production while we were there.
I read CC quite a bit during her senior year, and it seems to me that almost no one who had attended UofA or visited the campus in the past 4 years was contributing to the conversation (I think there was maybe one unhappy student who posted), and I just wanted to share our firsthand knowledge. If there is a student considering UofA - I would recommend they contact the program directly to review their policies if they are concerned with cut/no cut programs.
My daughter applied to many programs, and her top pick was UofA - over other schools she was accepted into on the East Coast, Midwest and in California. They have a very impressive department, and the faculty were welcoming and had a lot to offer.
Thank you for your reply, @butterflyFX. If they have truly changed their policy, then good for U of A. I would recommend that any prospective student confirm that it has, indeed, been changed and inquire as to the numbers of students who are leaving/being redirected, etc. And also how many of the original class members are still around and graduating after four years. The information that was shared here by Marsha Bagwell, a faculty member in the theatre department at U of A, years ago confirmed, without any doubt, that their cut policy back then was appalling and if that has changed, then they should be happy to provide the information required to prove it.