D wants to take trip out east...

Parents Forum
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<p>My name implies my situation...Our D wants to attend an out of state school.We live in Indiana and her top choice is Georgetown. She also is interested in schools out east.Our dilemma is how much time/money should we invest, when frankly some of her choices would be quite a reach. We have no problem with a trip to Gtown., but she wants to do a trip up the coast. W e have tried to get her to narrow her selections.She realizes that 'money does not grow on trees..,but she also throws the slam..How will I ever know if you try to squelch my dreams!!! She has no desire to stay in Indiana.(at least at this age) Her gpa is 3.8.The high school is an average county school with no aps until her coming senior year.She has taken the hardest classes available.Her ecs are goood...but somewhat average.(class pres.,girls state delegate,big/bro sis org.,key club pres.,etc.)Just retook the SAT after scoring 1900.Has yet to take ACT/SAT2.I apologize for never really asking the intended question and rambling...Any thoughts?</p>

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<p>Aren't there two separate issues here? </p>

<p>(1) Whether she should focus too much on reach schools. Which she shouldn't. Okay to have some reach schools on her list, but they should be "reasonable reaches" for her. Then she should spend mucho time on identifying 50/50 (match) schools and likely schools, each of which she should be happy to attend.
(2) Whether she should go East. There is a complete range of schools wrt selectivity, size, atmosphere, location on the East Coast. If she wants to go east and you agree it is feasible, you and she can well spend your time on a trip looking at Georgetown and nearby schools which are less selective; you could then go up the coast visiting more of the same.</p>

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<p>Thank you, jmmom for your response.There are several issues here!!</p>

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<p>What exactly are your concerns?</p>

<p>Are you concerned that she'll want to go to a school that you can't afford? An out of state public or private can cost up to $45K per year (tuition, room/board, books, fees, transportation).</p>

<p>Are you concerned that she'll get her hopes up about a college that she might not get accepted to? (So far, her SAT is a bit low for Georgetown)</p>

<p>Are you concerned about wasting money on an unnecessary trip?</p>

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<p>Yes...and Yes!!! We have already discussed..told her that if she goes out of state that she will have to take on debt.And yes ,I'am afraid that some of the schools that she wants to look at are too much of a reach for her situation.We have also told her that we are willing to do whatever we can to help her,BUT she her list always goes to the top 25.</p>

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<p>Does she have a good Guidance Office/Counselor at her school? Has she looked at the 25-75% SAT stats for the schools of interest to her? their acceptance rates? Focusing only on top 25 schools probably won't work for her and isn't a good idea for much of anyone.</p>

<p>If you find yourself talking to the wall (where did I possibly get that idea :p?)... and are not getting support for her to make a balanced list, then you might have to be the guidance officer for this project.</p>

<p>Let her know that you will visit x reaches with her on the East Coast if and only if she works on her own/with you/with the Guidance Counselor to identify x 50/50 schools and x likely schools for the visits. </p>

<p>By serendipity, on our first college Road Trip, we visited a safety school first. It was very appealing. This might be a good idea for you and your D, so that she isn't always measuring every school against Georgetown or other lottery-ticket reach schools.</p>

<p>Solid financial planning is also absolutely critical. If you haven't already, you need to estimate what your family's EFC is and how much need-based financial aid your D might expect from various schools. If it's 0, and you don't want to pay $45K++, then she needs to focus on schools where she can get merit $$ (these will be her 50/50 or likely schools). If she will not qualify for merit or need-based aid and you don't want to pay the $45K, she needs to know that <em>NOW</em>. Every April, we see kids who had a vague sense that it would all work out, they could "take on debt", etc. Then the acceptance to Dream School comes in but the finances just do not work. Not the time to find out! If you have to squelch her dreams due to finances, now is definitely the time. She can then turn her attnention to schools which are feasible and which she can get excited about (whether she believes that possible right now or not).</p>

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<p>What if, while you're in the neighborhood doing the tour, you also just go ahead and visit some good 'match' schools and maybe a couple of 'safety' schools? You never know when your D might like some of them or even prefer some of them once she visits them. </p>

<p>Posters on this board can recommend good matching schools if you have the area of the country narrowed down, indicate what she's really looking for in a school, and indicate what her major and other interests (certain sports, theatre, big city, ocean, etc.) will be.</p>

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<p>There are an array of schools on the east coast that could be affordable (merit aid) and realistic for her. My advice would be: </p>

<ol>
<li><p>determine how much you can afford to pay (NOTE: it may be less that what schools determine you are able to afford!) and make it clear that this is the maximum amount you can contribute. Figure travel into this.</p></li>
<li><p>Research schools that offer the feel, classes, location, etc that your daughter likes. As jmmom suggests, find reaches, matches & safeties. </p></li>
<li><p>It does no good to have a safety and then find out you don't like it when it is the only school that took you! Make sure to visit a few safeties and find two that are appealing!</p></li>
<li><p>Consider getting the idea about what schools are appealing by visiting local schools first. Visit big State U, private Liberal Arts College, City College, Rural college. Get the picture narrowed down before flying out east. Then once you have a "type" of school, go visit those types in the location she likes.</p></li>
<li><p>If Georgetown is still the paradigm (from afar) you can probably see 10 schools within driving distance of Georgetown. American, George Washington, George Mason, U MD College Park, etc. (Midatlantic people, help me out here.) </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Georgetown as a reach might also indicate she should investigate BC, Bucknell, Dickinson, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Trinity CT, etc as other similar schools outside the DC area.</p>

<p>Merit schools will require more research. Maybe Allegheny? Hobart? You generally have to move down in selectivity to a school where your D would be a stellar student to get significant merit aid. OTOH, if you're able to pay nearly the tab, a loan or some work study may be enough.</p>

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<p>Will she also need to go to grad school for her chosen profession? If so, she'll probably have to take on A LOT of debt for that since grad school/prof school can cost a lot more than undergrad. The reason I am asking is because my S is facing the same. We have told him that it isn't a good idea to take on debt for undergrad since he'll have to for grad (or law) school. Our son also wants to go to a "top school" for undergrad but he's starting to accept the fact that he can get into a good grad (or law) school by excelling at a lesser expensive, but still good college that is either "in state" or will waive OOS fees.</p>

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<p>Given your description of Ds average HS that offers APs only in the senior year, you will be on your own in your search for an out-of-state school. (Of course, you'll have all your CC friends.) </p>

<p>I may be harsh, but the school's idea of guidance is probably steering the best & brightest to IU, and the lesser stars to the satellite schools. Getting recommendations from teachers who aren't used to writing them could be a challenge. (I am basing this on close friends' experiences at the local public HS compared to S's at a parochial prep school, as well as CC threads.) </p>

<p>An East Coast dream is great, and if you want to take a summer vacation, there are worse things than visiting college campuses. S had one too, and is headed there with the class of 2010. He also had a (very) helpful HS CG and a parent who enjoyed thumbing through college guides at the bookstore where she works. </p>

<p>As for other schools in DC area, maybe GW, American, Loyola (Baltimore)?</p>

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<p>Thank you all for the feedback.What jlauer just touched on is something that we have been trying to tell our D..she wants to go on to law schoool.Her ambitions /desires are lofty ..altho not unobtainable.She wants major political science/international relations...with either History or???She just recently won third in state compt., for history in our school district.Also .she has traveled some,Spain, France,Canada abit out west,but she has never been to the east coast.She has been to DC.,and feels that she would be in the mix of everything that interests her.I think she wants to go to Boston more for the past than the present!</p>

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<p>Many great options in Boston area and DC area. If those locations are okay with you, one approach might be to give her your blessing on the East Coast location. In return, she needs to work on starting to Dream about schools which have a range of selectivity and fit whatever financial parameters you establish as a family.</p>

<p>I personally would not make an East Coast trip with a kid who only wanted to look at Georgetown, BC, ivies, Hopkins, UVA...</p>

<p>I <em>would</em> make that trip with a kid who was excited about considering GWU, American, Loyola, UMd, Trinity, Stonehill, Wheaton,.... ie, a range of selectivity. Showing that she has a grounding in reality of the college admissions process. I would include only those schools where you are willing to pay full freight, have evidence that she might receive merit $$ or have evidence that need-based aid in a satisfactory amount is possible.</p>

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<p>talkingtothewall, is your daughter working this summer? here's the deal i'd make. she pays x% of the cost of the trip, and you'll pay (100%-x%) under these conditions:
1) she thoroughly researches online the schools she thinks she wants to visit and she can tell you what she likes about them and why she thinks she will fit
2) the list includes matches and a safety or two
3) depending on her list, you may also insist that she visit 1 or 2 schools that YOU think are good fits.</p>

<p>You and she must be realistic about the financial situation. Don't let her get all bent on Georgetown if you cannot likely afford it. If you can't afford out of state tuition, be straight now. Her stats are a bit low to count on merit aid but if she really shines at something and can present that well, there are probably some out of state schools where she might get some help. She better keep her grades up and get some excellent recommendations. If you can't pay out of state tuition then she needs to get that and really put out some effort to make herself attractive. </p>

<p>It's natural that she would want to venture outside Indiana. (Nothing personal.) If that is her #1 criteria then I hope you can help her make that happen.</p>

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<p>This is sooo true. What you can afford may be MUCH lower than what the college THINKS you can afford. </p>

<p>Look at ALL costs. It amazes me how many parents just look at the tuition cost and forget to look at:</p>

<p>room and board (which can be as much as 11K),
fees (which can be as high as $1500)
books (which can be $600 per semester/ $1200 per year),
Misc expenses and spending money
AND
Travel (Thanksgiving, Christmas, semester break, spring break/Easter, summer, and other trips home) which can add a few thousand each year. </p>

<p>This is why a school that may charge $25-30K in tuition can easily cost you up to $45K per year. There have been a few parents on CC that thought that they had saved "enough" for their kid's college but then found out that tuition has increased and there are all these other costs that they hadn't considered.</p>

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<p>You hit it on the nail amdgmom ..except its more Purdue steerage!D and I visisted IU for a college day and she does not want to be in the middle of a corn field.Also she is not a prude..but not much of a partier as a couple of classmates had close calls with alcohol.</p>

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<p>Just make sure her list also includes some academic and financial safeties. Make sure that she will be happy going to those safeties! There are too many kids that get in and cannot afford to go, or they look at reaches and then have no choices that they are happy with in April.</p>

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<p>Ahhhh....</p>

<p>She wants to go to law school..... Does she have any idea how much that costs (along with her living costs)? At that time, she will have to take out some huge loans. Does she realize how much she'll owe if she also borrows for undergrad? Does she know how much her monthly payments will be once she graduates (lawyers don't make top money right away!!) And, she'll have other expenses at that time -- a nicer car, nicer clothes, etc.</p>

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<p>Ok..YoMamma you will think that I'am really crazy ..but I just gave D blessing to quit her 2.12p/hr waitress job.She leaves in a week for Girls state,she will be there for one week.She has a dance camp to attend ,and we have committed one week for college tours with her.She wants to try and get a part time job that has something to do with something she likes/enjoys.We are very limited for resources..small town.</p>

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<p>No truer words have been written....</p>

<p>There have been MANY posts about kids who were either only accepted at schools that they could not afford OR not accepted to any schools at all because they only applied to "reach" or what they thought were "match" schools. </p>

<p>Every kid needs to apply to at least 2 financial safeties that they won't mind going to if they end up having no other choice. That usually means applying to their flagship state school and/or some other good in-state schools.</p>

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<p>My DS is going to Northeastern in the fall and we live in SoCal. One of his friends is going to Babson. I have family on the east coast, his friend does not. IMHO, first thing to do is ask "why the east coast"? Sit down and tackle what it is she thinks she will find there, and how she is going to feel when everyone else goes home for the three day Columbus day holiday and for Thanksgiving. For my DS, he wanted a big city, wanted diversity, it wasn't so much the east but that he wanted a large urban city and he wanted to major in criminal justice-great program at NEU. He is going with the full understanding that he will be homesick or alone sometimes and that was his choice. He was accepted at GWU but with no financial aid at all, and liked NEU better to begin with. That said, in your situation first step is to say "why east?" then make sure she understands that she will be alone sometimes and you may not be able to fly her home often...THEN make a list of realistic schools.. GWU, American are very different in terms of urban/suburb, etc. And be realistic about the SAT and GPA. Dont' go visiting places you know you either can't afford or which are beyond her reach....then go look around. INcidentally, one girl from our hs is going to Georgetown, over 4.0 gpa, unbelievable ecs and numerous ap classes from sophomore year on....Check out their stats, I highly recommend using books or collegeboard website to make sure the stats are realistic. Check out the freshman class profiles....sorry for the long post.</p>