<p>Just pursue your original plan, adrivit. It's definitely the way to go.</p>
<p>And heed that other piece of advice you've read here: Have applications to other generous schools ready to go for the RD application cycle if your ED app to Dartmouth doesn't work out for you, because the odds are long for everyone at schools like that. </p>
<p>For other apps, look for schools that are need-blind for internationals, and even some that aren't, but will meet full need for internationals: Middlebury, Amherst, Williams, HYPSM, Pomona, and there are others. You could generate a pretty good list with a little homework.</p>
<p>Don't worry about how perfect a financial aid award might or might not be. Dartmouth is an excellent choice for an ED app based on their published aid policies. Beyond that, all you can do is apply widely to the rest of your list and see what else might work out for you.</p>
<p>adrivit,
It IS summer and even people in the financial aid offices take vacations. It may also be Dartmouth's reunion week, when a lot is going on, so you may not get an answer as fast as you like. Have patience with those who work in admissions/ financial aid offices during the summer- they are oftern slower to respond during this time of year.</p>
<p>There is no way to know if Colgate and Dickinson are safeties without knowing more about your high school experiences and your student profile (GPA, standardized test scores, etc). </p>
<p>Adrivit...where ARE you located that it's not summer? Southern hemisphere somewhere?</p>
<p>Dickinson & Colgate are not a safetis because they are not need blind to international students (your ability to pay will be a factor in the admissions decision). Dickinson specifically states:
[quote]
*Understand that the greater your ability to contribute funds, the better your chance of receiving financial aid to enroll. *</p>
<p>oh, hunny. no way are colgate and dickinson safeties for any international student needing aid (especially a full ride). both are very selective LACs, colgate much more so than dickinson, and are need aware for international admissions. i'd say dickinson's easier to get into than colgate.. colgate can meet your full need (which may or may NOT be equivalent to a full ride, btw) if admitted, probably dickinson too, i'm not so sure. </p>
<p>remember that you will be thrown into the most competitive pool of applicants: aid-seeking international students from over-represented country.</p>
<p>i'm an international student too, class of 2012, and i asked for tonnes of aid. for applicants like us, no school is a safety. keep that in mind. it's harsh, but i also think it's fair. america doesn't owe us any favors, no matter how unfortunate our family's situation may be, or how much we desire to attend a particular school, or study a certain subject, or whatever.</p>
<p>I'll join the ranks of people suggesting that Colgate and Dickinson don't make good safeties. You probably have pretty decent chances at both, but they are nowhere "safe". In 2004 (the most recent numbers I have) Colgate had an international admission rate of 12%, and they probably just got more selective in the meantime. I guess part of the reason is that Colgate waives the application fee for online applications, which tends to attract many poor international applicants.</p>
<p>But as another poster said above, you cannot get accepted without applying. Good luck!</p>
<p>I would think a real safety school would be a school in your home country where you're pretty certain of getting admitted, adrivit. I mean, I know it's not what you want, but you probably ought to at least have something like that as a last resort.</p>
<p>I'll pipe in...again. I'm a Colgate grad and close to the people in the admissions office and know some international students. Colgate is becoming VERY difficult to get in. 5 years ago, it accepted 32% and now it's down to 23.7%. It's not on anyone's safety school list anymore, even for Dartmouth. Colgate used to have the reputation of hosting Dartmouth rejectees. Now it's just as competitive as the Ivies.</p>
<p>Colgate tends to attract international students who have money but can offer very generous financial aid packages. Nevertheless, it's in middle of nowhere, just as Dartmouth is, which adds to transportation costs. International students sometimes fly from Syracuse to JFK or Chicago to catch their flights home. Sometimes they do take a bus down to NYC to JFK. It's just more time-consuming than Dartmouth. Also, Colgate doesn't have a "January term," meaning that you're going to be responsible for finding a place to live and something to do for 5 weeks between fall and spring semesters unless you have special permission to stay in the dorms (and that can be very lonely when all students move out) and perhaps work on campus.</p>
<p>I would put Colgate right under Dartmouth but it's definitely NOT a safety. Colgate tends to look for and attract kids who are involved in the community and make names for themselves in their strongest suits because that's how Colgate thrives, given its location and history of producing a certain kind of alumni.</p>
<p>The closest thing to a safety in the US might be the University of New Orleans. It offers surprisingly uncompetitive merit scholarships covering full tuition, housing and a stipend for an SAT score of 1210 and a GPA of 3.5 and above. The university is still suffering from the impact of Hurricane Katrina though... </p>
<p>I agree with the above poster that there are no real safeties for international students who need full aid. American universities are set up to educate Americans. Why should they invest so much money into foreigners? Only the very top colleges, those that have the financial resources and the ambition to educate the world's elite, do. Others consider international students to be "cash cows" - rich students that will pay the sticker price no matter how high it might be - and that's how universities in most other countries view international students, too. It sucks for the individual foreign student but it works for the system as a whole.</p>
<p>"I agree with the above poster that there are no real safeties for international students who need full aid. American universities are set up to educate Americans."</p>
<p>This poster has nailed it. Yes, our Universities are a magnet for internat'l students everywhere, including from other Western countries. Canada is somewhat of a magnet in that regard, too. But just because there are more inclusive acceptance policies than one finds in some equivalent institutions in other countries, does not mean it's just an Open Door. For internationals, the acceptance rate is lower than for US students, the financial aid considerations even more challenging. By contrast, an international who can pay full price is not as challenged for admission, because their ability to pay the higher international student fees is in itself an asset -- even for the financially strong Ivies. Thus, any internat'l student is competing on multiple levels: for admission -- with domestic & internat'l students of equal & greater accomplishment, not to mention with those of any origin with NO financial need; for financial aid -- with domestic needy students who will get priority over international needy students. </p>
<p>I agree with the poster or posters who stated that a safety would be located in one's home country. The secondary way to go, for anyone determined to be educated in the U.S., is the traditional practice of immigrating in some legal short-term or long-term arrangement which would allow you to live/work in the U.S. long enough to attend public community college on the cheap & then seek a transfer into a public or private 4-year institution.</p>
<p>Relative to many countries in Asia (especially) and Western Europe, the US college system looks like the land of opportunity. However, the reality is that application to the most popular colleges (which obviously includes Ivies like D) is the land of competition -- in qualification, in financial aid, in geography, and in all those factors combined.</p>
<p>may I add that I learned this past application season that some of what univerities consider Int'l applicates are US high school graduates ...so the Int'l pool includes kids already in the US...</p>
<p>So out of curiosity I checked out Rice's policy and it is probably a more standard reflection of reality for international students. </p>
<p>"International applicants must supply documentation of sufficient financial support for their first year of study at Rice before an application for admission can be processed. Need-based financial aid at Rice is available only to U.S. citizens and documented permanent residents. All accepted freshman applicants will be considered for merit awards based on academic and individual excellence. However, these awards should not be expected to cover the full cost of a Rice education."</p>
<p>
[quote]
American universities are set up to educate Americans. Why should they invest so much money into foreigners?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In theory, there are many, many valid reasons why the presence of international students in the US is important. However, if universities and our government view this presence as an ... investment, they should focus a lot more on the return on investment. </p>
<p>A good start would be to make it entirely possible for international students to attend US schools and be placed on equal footing for admissions, but with one huge caveat: **the entire **cost of the education should be in the forms of LOANS and not in the form of grants. </p>
<p>Further it would be rather easy to implement mechanisms for erasing this type of debt with public service that serves the United States. Want to study 4 years in the US ... please come but be prepared to teach inner city kids for 5 years after graduation. Want to pursue a master's? Add another 3 years of service. In sectors that are critical to our economy, facilities for immigration should be created. In other sectors, students should be expected to return to their home country. What's so wrong to expect foreigners to ensure some form of payback? </p>
<p>Fwiw, the same conditions could be met by serving in the home country of the students, as long as our government taps into its foreign development funds to reimburse the schools for their investments.</p>
<p>Lastly, NOTHING precludes foreign alumni to dedicate their donation to funding scholarships for their fellow students, and NOTHING precludes foreign government to invest in their own citizens.</p>
<p>If you are a strong candidate for Dartmouth, you may be able to find merit awards at other schools. There are not many schools that are need blind and meet 100% of need for international applicants, so looking at schools that have some generous merit awards that do not exclude international students may be the way to go. Momfromtexas came up with a thread that gives you ways to find schools that are willing to give you a full ride.</p>
<p>As for applying ED, before you do so, look for the worst possible scenario under Dartmouth's financial aid policies. If you can handle that and do not feel like comparing offers, you are making a well informed decision to apply ED. I would out and out ask the DArtmouth adcoms/fin aid officer, what the worst scenario would be. Yes, you can get out of ED if you can't pay, but it is very likely to negatively impact your chances at other schools, and is a very messy procedure, as Dartmouth will have your name on the ED accept list that is circulated to anumber of other colleges. It is not that quick and easy to get out of ED.</p>