<p>Nationality: British
Undergraduate school: University of the Philippines at Diliman
Undergrad course: BS Business Economics
GPA 1.6 (1.00 being the highest) equivalent 3.7+ = cum laude
Work experience: 4 years
Company: Citibank, Manila
GMAT: 740</p>
<p>I prefer a small, close-knit kind of a business school that has a strong orientation in enterpreneurship and general management.</p>
<p>I really like Tuck when I visited but decided the cult-like culture and really remote location won't work for me. Hass is also a solid choice. I will throw in Johnson, Darden and Fuqua for your "small, close-knit" consideration. Not sure about Judge and Said.</p>
<p>Dartmouth = really remote, good school and very close-knit
Haas/Berkeley = great place for tech and entrepreneurship, known to be very collegial and is quite small to, probably best if you want to work in Asia or on the West Coast of the US though decent on the East Coast, don't know how it would play in Europe, beautiful campus, close to a major metro area that some argue is the nicest in the US</p>
<p>Can't really speak of these vs. the UK bus. schools. I had thought that Judge had a fairly solid rep in the US, though LBS and INSEAD are European schools of a longer standing reputation. My impression of Oxford is that its student body is not at the standard of the others named. This is purely anecdotal and based on the people I know who went there (bright, but not close to the Dartmouth/Berkeley level.</p>
<p>I would make up your mind Europe vs. US and then choose accordingly. Will the fact that the dollar is low help your financing?</p>
<p>To the OP: at first blush, I would say that Berkeley Haas is probably has the edge because of its strong entrepreneurship bent and ties to Asia (and I assume that that's something you value). </p>
<p>However, frankly, Dartmouth Haas has better ties than does Haas to much of the high finance industry, especially hedge funds, wealth management, and private equity. The British programs you cited have the huge advantage of only being 1-year long which greatly improves their ROI.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would make up your mind Europe vs. US and then choose accordingly. Will the fact that the dollar is low help your financing?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Definitely, since I won't be applying for a scholarship grant from any of the school I intended to attend. I know Haas offers grants but the slot is extremely competitive, and I know I won't stand a chance in getting grants from there. An offer from all the schools I applied to is all I really want. </p>
<p>On the issue of US vs UK, that wasn't actually a main concern for me. I thought any globally prestigious business school or any top-ranked business school would embark on would be perfectly fine with me. I after the school's prestige -- the school's name -- since from experience, the school's name counts MORE than the school's program, especially in Asia, particularly in the Philippines. But I really would want to go into business venture in the Philippines after MBA. I feel there are plenty of opportunities for me if I stick around here after MBA. Technology-related business is the "in" thing in the Philippines right now and I recon it would still be the "in" thing there in the next era or so. But I won’t pass up if an opportunity to work in the US crosses path with me. Spending a couple of years or so in the US would eventually mould me into becoming a better entrepreneur wherever I would eventually end up at. </p>
<p>I honestly would not mind going to a UK university especially if it's Oxford or Cambridge. (Both schools are more popular in Asia than is LBS.) The quality of the student body at either school won't mater for my need in acquiring an MBA either because both Oxford and Cambridge’s prestige supersedes their imperfection, at least, that’s rightly so in Asia. Both schools have a very, very strong reputation in Asia. Both schools have very strong alumni network in Asia, more so than either LBS or INSEAD. That’s very important for me. </p>
<p>Between Haas and Tuck:
I have not really heard of Tuck until I did some research about business schools in the US. Dartmouth is known but not well-known there. But I heard a lot of positive reviews about the school mostly from the websites (I thought its location was its only downside, but that’s not a concern for me.) My only worries about Tuck are that, it does not carry too much weight in Asia while nobody there would argue a Berkeley degree is fantastic and top-notched. Berkeley's advantage is its very, very strong reputation, aside from its small and close-knit kind of environment. Berkeley is, plain and simple, WOW! The alumni network of the school in Asia is something to fancy about too. Berkeley alumni occupy top positions in business and government and I thought that would be a very big advantage of attending a Berkeley program than a Tuck program. </p>
<p>
[quote]
However, frankly, Dartmouth Haas has better ties than does Haas to much of the high finance industry, especially hedge funds, wealth management, and private equity.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hi. Please care to elaborate this further. I'd also like to know how this would affect my decision in choosing Haas over Tuck.</p>
<p>I’ve heard there are more Tuck alumni in Wall Street than there are Berkeley alumni. But aren’t there thriving finance industries in the West Coast where Berkeley alumni represents more than Dartmouth alumni?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I will throw in Johnson, Darden and Fuqua for your "small, close-knit" consideration.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Thanks. Along with Ross and Yale, those were actually some of my "fallback" schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But aren’t there thriving finance industries in the West Coast where Berkeley alumni represents more than Dartmouth alumni?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, but the larger financial center is Back East, so from that standpoint Haas is removed. However, I would really consider what you want to do. You said you were interested in entrepreneurship. Haas, hands down in this case. Haas students do get recruited for i-banking positions and esp. with folks with tech backgrounds will get picked up by venture capital firms, etc. </p>
<p>Actually, Tuck doesn't come first to mind frankly as a school from which to go to the finance industry in a big way and I have had a fair amount of interaction with top 10/15 b-schools in the US. I would guess that it does have greater numbers going to Wall Street at least than Haas, though I am not sure about this in terms of real numbers esp. in related financial jobs like Private Equity. It is networked -- it does breed <strong>incredible</strong> loyalty. But this is largely the case with the small MBA programs: Haas, Tuck, Stanford, etc. The finance industry question is an issue I would research and get numbers on for yourself, in addition to listening what people such as myself on CC say. Also, you need to decide what to do: entrepreneurship or finance. If you want to go into some standard Finance position, it seems to me you may want to go to to Judge which I gather must have a very strong network in the City (London). If you want a combination of entrepreneurship and finance, I'd stick with your choices in the US.</p>
<p>Again, talk to the schools themselves and get hard numbers on placements. There is often an element of reputation with some of these schools which may not be deserved when you actually review how they do.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My impression of Oxford is that its student body is not at the standard of the others named. This is purely anecdotal and based on the people I know who went there (bright, but not close to the Dartmouth/Berkeley level.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I checked out both Oxford-Said and Cambridge-Judge's Class Profile and this was what I got. Seems both schools class profile is almost identical. Even the cost is almost the same too. Oxford has more students from the US, percentage wise.</p>
<p>Judge Business School
University of Cambridge</p>
<p>Size of class 150
Average GMAT score 690
Mid 80% GMAT range 640 to 740
Nationalities 47
Female 33%
Married 31%
Average age 30
Average years work experience: 7 years
Average number of languages spoken: 3</p>
<p>MBA costs and funding
Tuition fee £30,500
College membership* £2,000
Accommodation* £4,500
Meals* £3,000
Estimated total £40,000</p>
<p>Said Business School
University of Oxford</p>
<p>Average GMAT: 690
Mid 80% GMAT range 650 to 740
Average work experience (years): 5
Enrollment: 220
Average age: 29</p>
<p>Course Fee:
Tuition fee £30,000
College membership* £3,000
Accommodation* £10,500
Estimated total £43,500</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Well, in terms of numbers, I stand corrected. Those seem like fairly solid stats and pretty close to these US schools. It was just that the folks I met who had gone off to Said -- and who I had worked with -- didn't impress me mightily. On the other hand, they weren't total flunkies. And anyway, my point was entirely anecdotal as I said.</p>
<p>I think your choice is pretty stark in the US, but it's not related ultimately to the schools themselves: these are two solid top ten b-schools with completely different surroundings and flavor. </p>
<p>Tuck is on a remote Northeast campus really removed from any big cities. It is in a beautiful environment where it snows in the winter and the where the trees turn in the Fall. I'd say in a way it would be like going to camp. A friend who went to Tuck joked that his degree certified he was an alcoholic -- since there is apparently a jovial party atmosphere (what else to do?) there.</p>
<p>Haas is located in one of the best parts of the Berkeley campus with stunning views of the Bay Area, has solid ties to arguably the most vibrant business community in the US that of the Bay Area (which includes Silicon Valley) -- which is largely tech and venture capital focused but also includes fresh consumer products firms and is now a rapidly growing center of the green tech industries. (Berkeley was just given a grant by British Petroleum for $500 million to develop biofuels and there already a lot of various green tech companies). Berkeley in general has really solid ties to Asia as well. The weather in Berkeley for much of the school year is temperate and gorgeous. That part of the Berkeley campus can seem like a resort for long stretches of the year, even though other parts of Berkeley (esp. the south of campus) are sort of raggedy.</p>
<p>I am biased towards Berkeley, I'll admit. If MBAs in the States were one year, it might be a different story. But two years away from anything at Tuck in an almost camp-like atmosphere would not be what I'd go for. With Haas, it's the best of both worlds -- a small school where one gets to know one's classmates, but where one is tied in to the incredibly vibrant Bay Area economy very well but still can in fact wrangle opportunities in finance on the East Coast (though perhaps not as readily as from Tuck -- something to confirm). Plus, I had a Chinese professor who taught at Berkeley and then other places and she said the best place to live as an Asian American is in the Bay Area by far. There are so many Asian folks so well integrated into the fabric of business and life in the Bay Area.</p>
<p>Haas</a> School of Business: 360 Degree Panoramic Photos</p>
<p>I'd do the research into career placement from Haas vs. Tuck yourself, if that's going to be decisive for you, in terms of finance (tech, entrepreneurship, venture capital, private equity, etc.). Personally, with both these schools having as solid reputations as they do, I think they can both launch into just about anything you set your mind to and work toward while you're there. I'd go with what seems like a better comfort-level fit.</p>
<hr>
<p>Regarding the UK schools, it seems it would be best to go to them if you think you'll want to be in the UK or Europe after school. I don't know why, but I always had the impression Cambridge was the better b-school. Oxford seems like a more interesting environment because it's a larger city, but Cambridge is like a movie set of the small British university town. Cambridge and Oxford are strong brand names in the US, but not for b-school. If you want to come to the US, study in the US.</p>
<p>While Tuck is remote as far as environment, it's not that inconvenient in terms of recruiting. Dartmouth is as close to Boston as Wharton is to NYC. I have always thought of Tuck as having a stronger reputation and placement than Berkeley, but am coming from an east coast, non Asian perspective. I would say much of it comes down to where you envision locating afterwards.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have always thought of Tuck as having a stronger reputation and placement than Berkeley, but am coming from an east coast, non Asian perspective.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I wouldn't doubt Tuck has a stronger reputation on the East Coast. After all, it's Ivy League and located there. On the West Coast, it's largely unknown, though of course Dartmouth isn't. I'd imagine in this respect Tuck and Haas are mirror images in a way on opposite coasts in terms of reps. </p>
<p>I strongly recommend that powergrid look into the actual placements. Haas, for instance, I'd be almost completely sure does better in the Silicon Valley/venture capital world. No surprise there. It has developed an increasingly strong connection with Berkeley's stellar engineering programs among other things. And I'd be almost completely sure Tuck has more folks percentagewise going into parts of the financial industry in the East. No surprise there.</p>
<p>While I've never visited Tuck itself, I have visited the Dartmouth campus and it is really beautiful in an East Coast or Vermont/Hampshire kind of way, IMO. And I wouldn't doubt it gets it share of visitors given that up in the Northeast everything is jammed closer together anyway compared with West Coast dimensions.</p>
<p>Having worked a bit in the Philippines, I think going from there to Tuck would almost be like going to another planet. It could be really fun -- but two years would be too much IMO. And Berkeley has god's weather except during the summer mornings.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would say much of it comes down to where you envision locating afterwards.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is what it boils down to on the career side which is presumably the most important aspect. And this pertains very much to the question US or UK. </p>
<p>I think part of the issue with places like Tuck or Haas in general, too, is that they are solid, solid schools, but they're just damned small. Compared to the huge Wharton, for instance, they automatically make a smaller splash in general. I guess only Stanford really breaks out of that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Haas students do get recruited for i-banking positions and esp. with folks with tech backgrounds will get picked up by venture capital firms, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Only 20% of Haas grads go to financial services, with only 3.5% going to venture capital.</p>
<p>For</a> Employers - MBA Employment Reports - Haas School of Business</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually, Tuck doesn't come first to mind frankly as a school from which to go to the finance industry in a big way and I have had a fair amount of interaction with top 10/15 b-schools in the US.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Financial Services is the most popular field for Tuck MBA's to enter, about 39% of the class heading there. That's highly comparable to the 42% (from the 2006 class) from HBS.</p>
<p>Tuck</a> Careers - Full-Time Employment Statistics
<a href="http://www.hbs.edu/mba/recruiting/pdf/2006_07_career_report.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.hbs.edu/mba/recruiting/pdf/2006_07_career_report.pdf</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
after the school's prestige -- the school's name -- since from experience, the school's name counts MORE than the school's program, especially in Asia, particularly in the Philippines.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
...My only worries about Tuck are that, it does not carry too much weight in Asia while nobody there would argue a Berkeley degree is fantastic and top-notched. Berkeley's advantage is its very, very strong reputation, aside from its small and close-knit kind of environment. Berkeley is, plain and simple, WOW! The alumni network of the school in Asia is something to fancy about too. Berkeley alumni occupy top positions in business and government and I thought that would be a very big advantage of attending a Berkeley program than a Tuck program.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If school prestige is what you really want, then there is one school whose brand name transcends all: Harvard. </p>
<p>You don't even have to get into HBS. Just get into any Harvard program. By doing so, you'll be able to say that you went to Harvard. If what you really care about are a brand name so that you can impress people in the Philippines and an alumni network to leverage (not that there's anything wrong with that), then getting into some program at Harvard may be the way to go.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Financial Services is the most popular field for Tuck MBA's to enter, about 39% of the class heading there. That's highly comparable to the 42% (from the 2006 class) from HBS.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, it is significantly more, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen in significant numbers at Haas. I wish we could see how many tried and did/didn't end up with their first choices in each case. Haas starts out with a smaller number of pure finance-focused students anyway I would imagine, given that the draw of an MBA program like Haas is not finance (it's far from Wall St.). The indicative categories Haas (3.5% go into VC/PE) vs. that of Tuck (6% go into PE) don't say a lot to me. Both are fairly small, and they are differently specified. Venture Capital is a small field not drawing in many recruits anyway.</p>
<p>Of course, the biggest difference between these two schools is the Tuck sends students into the two big MBA fall-backs: finance and consulting (nearly 70%) Tuck sends 11% of its graduates into tech and biotech. Haas sends nearly 11% of its graduates into biotech/pharma alone and 31% into tech. Consulting and finance make up 32% of the jobs taken at Haas. </p>
<p>So Haas is about technology, entrepreneurship, innovation and not as much about the standard MBA path, though the standard MBA path seems to be fairly available. On the other hand, if you want to go into tech, I really wouldn't go to Tuck.</p>
<p>So in the end it goes back to what Powergrid wants to do and where he wants to end up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
By doing so, you'll be able to say that you went to Harvard. If what you really care about are a brand name so that you can impress people in the Philippines and an alumni network to leverage (not that there's anything wrong with that), then getting into some program at Harvard may be the way to go.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The Harvard brand name has huge power in many contexts and more so worldwide actually. I'd say the cachet of the Harvard brand name may be larger OUTSIDE the US whereas to us there are many excellent US universities. Having said that, Sakky and I have argued this in a different thread (or something similar), this would be really true if you wanted to be in government or politics where what you learned doesn't matter so much. But if you want to learn something or be positioned for a certain kind of business job, other than HBS not just any old Harvard degree will do; I'd get the MBA from Berkeley/Cambridge/Dartmouth/Oxford instead.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You don't even have to get into HBS. Just get into any Harvard program. By doing so, you'll be able to say that you went to Harvard. If what you really care about are a brand name so that you can impress people in the Philippines and an alumni network to leverage (not that there's anything wrong with that), then getting into some program at Harvard may be the way to go.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sakky, I get your point but let me say something about school reputation in places where I come from – Philippines, UK and Singapore. </p>
<p>Harvard is very prestigious but it is not the only prestigious university in the world, particularly in Asia and Europe. There are other schools that carry as much weight in prestige and reputation as Harvard and these are Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Oxford and Cambridge (and Yale to some extent, mostly in Law). A degree from either of the mentioned schools would command authority and respect. A Harvard degree would only be an advantage to schools that are less popular or less prestigious, say Harvard vs Brown or Harvard vs Rice, Harvard vs Washing U, although we all know that the quality of education they provide is pretty similar. To give you some hints: Emory, Vanderbilt, Washington U, Brown, Rice, Notre Dame (and even Duke) are not considered prestigious in Asia. They are, however, to a selected few. </p>
<p>I understand Dartmouth is very prestigious in the US especially in the East Coast. I thought that would be another complement and advantage for their graduates and I'd be happy to go there just for that, if I stay longer in the US, especially. BUT I won’t. </p>
<p>To be honest, this forum has really been helpful to me. Since I know that I want to go back to Asia to go into business, and I will need the connection (alumni network), the reputation of the school in the place where I would want to establish myself is the way to go for me then. And in that case, I would make Berkeley as my first-choice, and Tuck as my 3rd choice. I would raise Yale to become my second-choice, since Yale is more prestigious than Dartmouth. Like I said, the only reason I was drawn to Tuck was its small, close-knit kind of environment, which is the kind of environment that I really would want to go. Of course, it did also help that it has a very strong MBA program. </p>
<p>Sakky, I won't be applying to HBS because I did not like the atmosphere at HBS. It's just too huge and one can easily get lost in such huge crowed. I did try to enjoy with the MBA students when I visited HBS but I ended up enjoying with the undergrad students instead. I also have talked to some HBS alumni of the school and they keep telling me: HBS is the best because we send out more HBS grads to Wall Street, IB, MC, etc.. I thought it was cool if that’s what you want but not everyone who studies MBA would want to end up as an investment banker or management/financial consultant in Wall Street. I thought owning a company is so much better than working for somebody else’s.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Haas starts out with a smaller number of pure finance-focused students anywayI would imagine, given that the draw of an MBA program like Haas is not finance (it's far from Wall St.)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, but I think that's the point. Fewer interested students means fewer recruiters and fewer networking opportunities to get into finance.</p>
<p>I also wouldn't be too quick to blame the problems on simple geography. After all, Stanford is just as far away from Wall Street as Berkeley is, and Stanford has just as powerful of a reputation for technology and entrepreneurship as Berkeley does, if not more so, and hence would also seem to draw in many students who are interested in starting their own firms. Nevertheless, 38% of Stanford MBA's take jobs in finance.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The indicative categories Haas (3.5% go into VC/PE) vs. that of Tuck (6% go into PE) don't say a lot to me
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh, I don't know about that. What those numbers say to me is that almost double the percentage of Tuck students enter PE as does the percentage of Haas students entering VCPE. That's a big difference. Particularly when it is entirely possible that those Tuck figures may or may not be including those who enter VC (depending on whether Tuck counts VC as part of PE or not, which I don't know). Nevertheless, even the most conservative estimate indicates that the figure is almost double. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I'd say the cachet of the Harvard brand name may be larger OUTSIDE the US whereas to us there are many excellent US universities. Having said that, Sakky and I have argued this in a different thread (or something similar), this would be really true if you wanted to be in government or politics where what you learned doesn't matter so much
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, this argument is predicated on the assumption that you are actually learning useful things in MBA programs. I can cite you a mountain of literature that indicates that, frankly, a lot of things you learn in B-school are really not particularly useful and consequently a lot of MBA students are not really there to learn anything from their classes. They are there primarily to recruit and network, and the classes are only a secondary concern (if that). </p>
<p>More to the point, the OP himself has said that he primarily sees this whole endeavor as a branding opportunity (as do most MBA students for that matter). </p>
<p>
[quote]
There are other schools that carry as much weight in prestige and reputation as Harvard and these are Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Oxford and Cambridge (and Yale to some extent, mostly in Law).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>While I'm personally happy to hear you assert that Berkeley has as much of a reputation as Harvard does in the Philippines, I strongly suspect that is false. Let's be honest. Whether fair or not fair, Harvard is Harvard. If there is one school in the world that has masterfully cultivated a transcendent world-wide brand name as an exclusive luxury good, it is Harvard. I personally don't think it's fair. But hey, what can I say? It's not my fault. I didn't make the rules. </p>
<p>Note, that's not to say that there aren't other prestigious schools. Of course there are. But again, the point is, Harvard is Harvard. Even the administrators of Yale, Stanford, and MIT have all conceded that their brand names do not yet match Harvard's. </p>
<p>The other major advantage of Harvard is, like I said, the alumni network which is arguably the most well connected and infamously incestuous alumni network in the world. Let's face it. Most of the best jobs in the world are available only through social networks. You simply can't get them if you don't have access to the right people. Alumni networks are a powerful way to get that access. In particular, Harvard dominates the commanding heights of high finance with a highly disproportionate share of partners in private equity, VC, hedge funds, wealth management, and so forth. As a case in point, I know of doctoral students who wanted to study the sociology of the PE industry who were strongly advised to do so at Harvard just to get access to the alumni network from which to procure data. </p>
<p>
[quote]
HBS is the best because we send out more HBS grads to Wall Street, IB, MC, etc.. I thought it was cool if that’s what you want but not everyone who studies MBA would want to end up as an investment banker or management/financial consultant in Wall Street. I thought owning a company is so much better than working for somebody else’s.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Then allow me to point out the fact that, according to USNews, HBS actually has a *higher *ranking in entrepreneurship than does Berkeley Haas (and also clearly Tuck and Yale). </p>
<p>Now, look, don't get me wrong. I am not directing you to go to HBS. Not at all. I am simply saying that if you choose not to consider HBS, you should be doing so for the right reasons. In particular, the notion that you can't learn entrepreneurship at HBS is simply false. HBS has in fact one of the world's elite entrepreneurship programs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I prefer a small, close-knit kind of a business school that has a strong orientation in enterpreneurship and general management.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Only Sakky could take a clear posting by someone who wants to go to a small b-school and say they are wrong and that they should go to Harvard (which is huge compared to Haas/Tuck and probably Judge/Said).</p>
<p>Only Sakky would obsess about finance placements when the person didn't indicate anything about wanting to go into finance.</p>
<p>Only Sakky could tell the original poster that he's wrong about perceptions within his own country about the perceptions of his own countrymen.</p>
<p>Only Sakky could take a thread that starts with the question of whether to go to B/C/D/O B-schools and end up essentially with the advice: don't go to any of these and definitely don't go to Berkeley (a school I didn't like as an undergrad), go to Harvard even if it's not to get an MBA. And it's a perfect caricature of Sakky's views -- and a strong indication of his obsessions.</p>
<p>Look, everyone's got their own biases. I've stated one or two of mine. But I don't think they border on obsession.</p>
<p>Sorry, Sakky, it's just a discussion with you always seems to end up in the same place, and I've gotten tired of it.</p>
<hr>
<p>Actually, I would agree that MBA knowledge is of dubious value intrinsically. Putting aside the question of whether this would true of most or all two year academic programs in liberal arts, and non-technical or non-licensing programs, I find it ridiculous that we spend a lot of time dicussing about which schools have which placement records -- the implicit assumption of which is that they have value in placing people -- but then to lionize Harvard's brand name and disparage others' you say that all that doesn't matter anyway that a random, non-MBA Harvard degree is more of value. Sakky, I don't know, maybe you need to look into some identity issues. You can ask my friend who got his MA this year from Harvard's Kennedy School and is temping months later not having found a job if he thinks that Harvard has a good placement record in all cases no matter what the degree actually says. </p>
<p>The way I look at it is MBAs offer a) knowledge of some principles a language (MBAs know how to talk about certain things and certain situations with a more or less standard language), b) branding, and c) placement into a one-off recruiting ritual or process or market that is unparalleled (even people who have MBAs 2 o 3 years old can't compare their hireability with that of MBAs being freshly minted and going through the hiring process on campus). That is the value of an MBA, and I'll tell you that from any of these schools powergrid is actually considering, the value is much higher than a random Harvard degree for his purposes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Nevertheless, 38% of Stanford MBA's take jobs in finance
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Oh, I don't know about that. What those numbers say to me is that almost double the percentage of Tuck students enter PE as does the percentage of Haas students entering VCPE. That's a big difference.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sakky, thanks for the numbers. 3.5% vs. 6% is not huge at all, especially when compared to Stanford's 12% going into Private Equity/LBO alone. In an earlier post you implied that Tuck has an overwhelming advantage in this area, and the numbers show it really doesn't. It's interesting to note that Stanford sends very few people into i-banking, relative to the other schools and the other finance destinations of its fellow graduates. And that is the real difference between Harvard/Stanford I imagine and all the other b-schools: these are the best launch pads for Private Equity and VC. Again, I would say that Tuck has an advantage for PE shops on the East Coast (and there are more generally). And Haas has an advantage for VC/PE shops on the West Coast. But the differences, largely owing to geography I would wager, pale in comparison to the primacy of Harvard and Stanford in these fields. I think Stanford's high numbers in PE and low in i-banking relatively show the value of that degree: these students aren't taking the fall-back i-banking jobs of the other "run-of-the-mill" (partly tongue in cheek) top ten MBA programs. Again, the differences in between Tuck and Haas pale, relatively. And to be sure there is much more going on generally in finance closer to Wall Street and Stamford, Connecticut PE shops. </p>
<p>
[quote]
While I'm personally happy to hear you assert that Berkeley has as much of a reputation as Harvard does in the Philippines, I strongly suspect that is false. Let's be honest. Whether fair or not fair, Harvard is Harvard. If there is one school in the world that has masterfully cultivated a transcendent world-wide brand name as an exclusive luxury good, it is Harvard. I personally don't think it's fair. But hey, what can I say? It's not my fault. I didn't make the rules.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I doubt that you're happy to hear this, Sakky. Your posts spend a lot of energy boosting your notion that a Harvard degree is kind of the be-all-and-end-all, and you have major complaints about your undergrad experience at Berkeley. C'mon, fess up.</p>
<p>Anyway, reputation is not something that can be quantified with a "geiger counter type" detector. It is a matter of perception. It's a little silly to question the perceptions of someone who is much closer to understanding the perceptions in his own society.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yeah, but I think that's the point. Fewer interested students means fewer recruiters and fewer networking opportunities to get into finance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh, to be sure Haas is on the West Coast, not nearly as close to Wall Street. Did the poster mention finance?</p>
<p>But anyway, the door is by no means closed to Haas students in finance. Arguably, though, coming the other direction, a Tuck person wanting to get into West Coast tech, in terms of the placement numbers, it may well be closed.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Only Sakky could take a clear posting by someone who wants to go to a small b-school and say they are wrong and that they should go to Harvard (which is huge compared to Haas/Tuck and probably Judge/Said).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Only Bedhead would deliberately misconstrue things that I have specifically said. To wit: when did I specifically say that the OP should consider HBS? Please point to the quote where I said that.</p>
<p>What I actually * said is that if he chooses not to, he should do so for the *right reasons, and that dismissing HBS because he wants entrepreneurship is a terrible reason for doing so, namely because HBS is actually *one of the best * entreprenuership schools in the world. </p>
<p>But of course people like Bedhead don't seem to care about what I actually say. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Only Sakky would obsess about finance placements when the person didn't indicate anything about wanting to go into finance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh really? So then why exactly did the OP ask the following question?</p>
<p>"I’ve heard there are more Tuck alumni in Wall Street than there are Berkeley alumni. But aren’t there thriving finance industries in the West Coast where Berkeley alumni represents more than Dartmouth alumni?"</p>
<p>In fact, Bedhead, you specifically answered this question. So according to your rules, YOU are allowed to discuss finance with the OP, but I am not. Isn't that interesting? But apparently Bedhead believes that rules apply to other people, not to him. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Only Sakky could tell the original poster that he's wrong about perceptions within his own country about the perceptions of his own countrymen.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First off, are you assuming that I myself am not one of his 'countrymen'? Bedhead, you don't know the first thing about me, so don't presume that you do. But of course only a guy like Bedhead would presume that he automatically know the backgrounds of everybody on CC. </p>
<p>Secondly I am simply asking the guy for more clarification on the issue. If he truly insists that this is the case, then I will take his word for it. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Only Sakky could take a thread that starts with the question of whether to go to B/C/D/O B-schools and end up essentially with the advice: don't go to any of these and definitely don't go to Berkeley (a school I didn't like as an undergrad), go to Harvard even if it's not to get an MBA. And it's a perfect caricature of Sakky's views -- and a strong indication of his obsessions.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I recommended not go to Berkeley? Is that so? Seems to me that on my post in this thread (post #4), I gave a quite strong endorsement of Berkeley. </p>
<p>I only brought up Harvard in my fourth post in this thread (post #13), after the OP revealed that he was looking primarily for prestige. Only at that point did I deem it relevant to bring in the big-H.</p>
<p>But of course, only a guy like Bedhead would choose to forget about all that. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Look, everyone's got their own biases. I've stated one or two of mine. But I don't think they border on obsession.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh, of course not. You keep responding to me, but it's not obsession. But when I respond to you, then that's obsession, right? So that's how it is. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Sorry, Sakky, it's just a discussion with you always seems to end up in the same place, and I've gotten tired of it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So then the answer is simple. If you're really tired of it, then stop reading my posts and stop responding to me. Nobody has a gun to your head.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sakky, I don't know, maybe you need to look into some identity issues
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, the same identity issues that you have? You seem to be most enthralled indeed with the notion of a 'top 15 MBA'. </p>
<p>
[quote]
. You can ask my friend who got his MA this year from Harvard's Kennedy School and is temping months later not having found a job if he thinks that Harvard has a good placement record in all cases no matter what the degree actually says.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'll be happy to do so, if you would be willing to talk to the MBA's that I know who graduated from top programs in June who are still looking for jobs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The way I look at it is MBAs offer a) knowledge of some principles a language (MBAs know how to talk about certain things and certain situations with a more or less standard language), b) branding, and c) placement into a one-off recruiting ritual or process or market that is unparalleled (even people who have MBAs 2 o 3 years old can't compare their hireability with that of MBAs being freshly minted and going through the hiring process on campus). That is the value of an MBA, and I'll tell you that from any of these schools powergrid is actually considering, the value is much higher than a random Harvard degree for his purposes.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First off, you are actually proving my point. MBA's know how to talk with a certain language? Sure, but frankly, MPA/MPP curricula are not that different from MBA curricula. There was a HBS/KSG mixer recently, and, regarding quite a few people, I'd be damned if I could tell which school they came from. </p>
<p>You also mention branding and placement. That proves my point. The general Harvard branding and placement, frankly, exceeds that of many B-schools. Let's face it. Harvard, in general, has a lot of recruiters. Furthermore, like I said before, the much of the real recruiting actually happens through social networks, which means that you need proximity to build that social network. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Sakky, thanks for the numbers. 3.5% vs. 6% is not huge at all, especially when compared to Stanford's 12% going into Private Equity/LBO alone.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh huh, so when Tuck exceeds Haas by almost twice, that's "not huge at all", but when Stanford exceeds Tuck by twice, all of a sudden that's "huge", right? I see. </p>
<p>
[quote]
In an earlier post you implied that Tuck has an overwhelming advantage in this area, and the numbers show it really doesn't.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What I said is that it has better ties. Not overwhelming. Just better. And the numbers clearly back me up on this point. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I doubt that you're happy to hear this, Sakky. Your posts spend a lot of energy boosting your notion that a Harvard degree is kind of the be-all-and-end-all, and you have major complaints about your undergrad experience at Berkeley. C'mon, fess up.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I said it before, I'll say it again. It actually took me four posts before I finally mentioned Harvard, and I would never have mentioned it at all were it not for the fact that the OP said he wanted prestige. In fact, I have specifically praised, in this thread and in many others, the quality of the Haas MBA program. </p>
<p>The bottom line is this. What is undeniable is that Harvard has the most prestige of any school in the world. Hence, if prestige is what you want (and the OP said that he did want that), then Harvard has to be considered. I fail to see the logical error here. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Did the poster mention finance?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes he did. Again, why would he ask the following question if he doesn't care about finance? You tell me.</p>
<p>"I’ve heard there are more Tuck alumni in Wall Street than there are Berkeley alumni. But aren’t there thriving finance industries in the West Coast where Berkeley alumni represents more than Dartmouth alumni?""</p>
<p>
[quote]
"I’ve heard there are more Tuck alumni in Wall Street than there are Berkeley alumni. But aren’t there thriving finance industries in the West Coast where Berkeley alumni represents more than Dartmouth alumni?""
[/quote]
</p>
<p>He said this in response to a point that you brought up about finance, asking for clarification. You are the one that brought it up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Uh huh, so when Tuck exceeds Haas by almost twice, that's "not huge at all", but when Stanford exceeds Tuck by twice, all of a sudden that's "huge", right? I see.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think if you read what I said about Harvard/Stanford vs. Haas/Tuck/East/West, the distinctions I was making are really clear. It's not just about the numbers; it's about what's behind the numbers. The fact is Stanford sends nearly the same percentage of folks into finance as Tuck -- but they go into vastly different areas compositionally. And given that PE and VC shops don't load up truckfuls of top MBAs the way investment banks do, it's a huge number (12%), yes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
First off, you are actually proving my point. MBA's know how to talk with a certain language? Sure, but frankly, MPA/MPP curricula are not that different from MBA curricula. There was a HBS/KSG mixer recently, and, regarding quite a few people, I'd be damned if I could tell which school they came from.</p>
<p>You also mention branding and placement. That proves my point. The general Harvard branding and placement, frankly, exceeds that of many B-schools. Let's face it. Harvard, in general, has a lot of recruiters. Furthermore, like I said before, the much of the real recruiting actually happens through social networks, which means that you need proximity to build that social network.
[quote]
</p>
<p>No, MPAs doen't learn the same things all. That is a startling misconception. If you think this, you clearly haven't seen many MPA transcripts or talked to MPAs... Oops gotta run. Will finish later, though I think this isn't helping the OP at all.</p>