DD got accepted by several schools. Now she leans to making a decision between the two – Dartmouth or Northwestern.
She is interested in computer science and media (especially game design). Dartmouth has fairly good program about it and she loves. On the other hand, she was admitted to the dual program at Northwestern with School of Communication and School of Engineering. She is particularly interested in the opportunity she may have at School of Communication on media creation. She is a little bit concerned whether she may get similar opportunities at Dartmouth even though overall Dartmouth seems providing a stronger undergraduate education generally.
Does anyone here know more about Computer Science in Dartmouth and how Dartmouth may provide help for student who is interested in game design?
I don’t know about Northwestern but I have a CS degree from Dartmouth. Honestly, I don’t recommend Dartmouth CS. There is a dearth of opportunities and activities. It’s just not an engineering oriented school and CS is not the center of the Dmouth universe unlike some other engineering focused schools. That said, job placement to top companies is not too bad, but most I’ve seen follow the standard generic software engineer track, not anything else.
Just go and have a look at the faculty size for the CS department. While all pretty phenomenal people individually, the Dartmouth CS department is pretty small. This effects what kind of opportunities students can find (they’re limited by the sheer small size of the department), how much freedom they have in choosing courses (specialty courses like ML are offered ONCE a year).
I had to find opportunities outside of Dartmouth to advance my own research career, and while that worked out, sometimes I wonder if I could have done better at a school more focused on CS.
That said, Dartmouth does have very strong theory faculty, and in general the faculty are pretty top-tier. There are profs affiliated with IBM, Facebook, Microsoft and Google, etc. It’s just that you probably won’t get to work with them.
It sounds like your daughter is interested in a specialize/niche (I don’t mean that in a bad way) track within CS. Unless she’s really interested in theory (I’m betting she isn’t - Almost no one is really interested in theory) go to Northwestern, 100%.
To get a sense of what I’m talking about, go to the course catalogs for both schools and see the difference in quantity and variety. Also note that CS grad rankings for Northwestern and Dartmouth are #30 and #43, respectively.
Make no mistake - Dartmouth was fun as hell and I love my alma mater, but I think the choice is clear.
What I know about both is mostly from here on CC but aren’t they very different settings? Does your daughter care at all about that as part of the decision?
Dartmouth College has a rural New England bucolic setting. Very social.
Northwestern University (the main campus which has all 8,250 undergrads & even more graduate students) is in the upscale Chicago suburb of Evanston. NU’s campus sits on the shores of Lake Michigan, has two beaches & sailboats available to students. Spectacular views of downtown Chicago from the Evanston campus. Serious students who also enjoy life. The Evanston campus is 231 acres.
Northwestern University used to have an Ivy League quality football team, but now it is much better.
Easy public transportation to Chicago–which is a great city.
Nevertheless, Dartmouth College has a cozy & charming feeling.
It sounds like you’re answering your own question, TBH. The dual program at Northwestern does sound like a great fit and a great opportunity. There’s nothing embedded in your question that spells out what might be better about Dartmouth for your daughter’s specific wants and needs. This makes me think that maybe the only reason she’s hesitant to turn down Dartmouth for Northwestern is the “Ivy” factor. But, the 8 schools in the Ivy athletic league do not have the corner market on reputation - even if one is hung up on overall rankings, Northwestern edges out Dartmouth on the USNews list. Not to say that there’s any meaningful difference between tied-for-10th and tied-for-12th, but just saying… passing up a better fit and an equal-or-better reputation/ranking for perceived Ivy “prestige” makes no sense. Dartmouth has many strengths, and there any number of reasons a particular student might choose either of these schools over the other. But objectively-speaking, for CS, Northwestern has the edge in terms of specific program; and if the CS+communications blend is a fit, then the margin is even bigger. Do you have a list of “pros” for Dartmouth that you’re not articulating?
I’m sure it’s different now. But look into one thing.
15 years ago at D, you wouldn’t have a great social experience without somehow being part of the Greek system. Which isn’t good or bad, in and of itself. It’s just an observation.
Work partner (leads cs and systems for my team and we are really close friends) hated the Greek concept personally but ultimately chose a co-ed frat/sorority. He said that was fun. But had also been accepted to another non Ivy for cs and looks back as a mistake.
But he is also very proud to be a Dartmouth grad and it certainly has had some cache for him over the years. How much it matters. I dunno.
The enrollment for CS classes have dramatically increased at Northwestern and the administration committed $150M to invest in the department, including adding about 20 more faculty. They also recently separated CS from EE (used to be a combined department)
thank all of you so much for your very insightful comments. These comments are very precious to us.
Be honest, the decision is very tough to my D. From the pure academic point of view, Northwestern CS + Communication likely beats Dartmouth CS + whatever media study (but with one additional year, Northwestern requires 5 years to finish the dual degree program). Many of you have already listed reasons above and I totally agree to the points.
At the same time, however, D wants to live in the east coast in the future, especially the new England region. If she would be a Dartmouth alumni, she feel she would have a better social life when living in the east coast. (Our family is in the south.) And she feel that Dartmouth will not significantly under-prepare her than Northwestern may do on her interested field. To the end, one may only learn the field knowledge to certain level in the undergraduate college. Most of the real profession is developed after graduation, either in graduate schools or in the real jobs.
I feel her thoughts somehow make sense but at the same time not totally convincing. I want to hear your opinions if possible. Thank you.
There is something to be said about going to school near where you want to live. It will also give her a sense if the New England is all she thinks it will be too. I don’t think it’s always the easiest place to move to from other parts of the country (DH and I grew up in the Northeast and we’ve found most other parts of the country to be more friendly and welcoming, and more affordable).
The great news is she can’t make a wrong decision!
OP: Interesting that you refer to a better social life for your daughter in the east if she attends Dartmouth College. I would be more concerned with one’s professional life since most social life after college revolves around work connections.
Regardless of the reason, if your daughter prefers Dartmouth College, then she should attend Dartmouth if it offers her major & COA is not a concern.
@Junerain my son is in a similar position! I really believe that both schools offer an outstanding education and endless opportunities. It really boils down to location. Dartmouth is in a rural area but the Dartmouth Coach to Boston picks up on campus and is a really easy 2-hour ride complete with snacks, a movie, and wifi. Lots of kids do weekend trips to the city. If your daughter enjoys the outdoors and/or wants to explore that more, the surrounding area is gorgous. That said, Northwestern has an incredible campus and is super close to Chicago. Being on Lake Michigan is a nice perk. I have only heard excellent things about both campuses. Either way… she can’t make a bad decision. It has been suggested that prospective students attend admitted students days once they have narrowed down their choices. That will really seal the deal for them. Also, encourage her to join their facebook and instagram facebook pages to “meet” some of her potential classmates.
While I can’t speak to the alumni network at Northwestern, Dartmouth’s alumni network is incredibly strong. My kid has gotten a number of job interviews AND a summer internship through the Dartmouth network. However, same kid had an awful experience in CS at Dartmouth. The intro CS classes are pretty huge, but this is probably the case everywhere these days…
Northwestern’s cache, appeal and network is extremely valuable in New England. I know this based on a lifetime in this region.
Dartmouth too of course.
But unvarnished truth from the New England private school network. tbh northwestern around here tends be thought of more along the lines of a higher academic cache and Dartmouth more sporty, well connected and legacy background along with of academically great vibe.
But others will argue the other side. It’s just my opinion and personal observation.
Northwestern University (the main campus which has all 8,250 undergrads & even more graduate students) is in the upscale Chicago suburb of Evanston. NU’s campus sits on the shores of Lake Michigan, has two beaches & sailboats available to students. Spectacular views of downtown Chicago from the Evanston campus. Serious students who also enjoy life. The Evanston campus is 231 acres.“
There are some not so nice areas in Evanston and the beaches on Lake Michigan are enjoyable for about 2 months of the calendar year.
The not so nice areas of Evanston are not near the NU campus.
Beaches are open from Memorial Day to Labor Day but of course students are not there for a good portion of that time unless they are doing summer term. The NU Sailing Center though is open early May through early October.
I saw my first hammock on campus last week so “outdoor” season is pretty long here in Evanston, regardless of if the beaches are officially open.