<p>By the way…Is Vandy off the list?</p>
<p>I don’t know kids at the AFA but I do know several kids who have completed ROTC and are now in Med school or are working on their military commitment and planning to do Med school down the road.</p>
<p>I think you are trying to compare apples to vodka or whatever. Too many variables here for a bunch of strangers to give your kid advice. I can’t tell from your previous posts whether you can really afford Dartmouth but would prefer not to spend any money on college for this kid (well, there’s your answer) or whether you just can’t swing college in which case you are working assiduously on some affordable options. So this is your problem.</p>
<p>But I will tell you that of the kids I know- the military option is not just a way to get Uncle Sam to foot the bill on a pricey education. When my son’s friends entered college our country was mostly at peace and I think his friends and their families were banking on being sent to some quiet outpost to “hang”, or to one of our super duper military bases in Europe where they’d get advanced medical training in some of the finest facilities in the world.</p>
<p>Guess what- 9/11 happened while they were in college; wars in Afghanistan and Iraq began while they were in college, the Pentagon doesn’t have an office named “My kid went ROTC so he could go to college and med school for free so please send him to San Diego and not Tikrit.”</p>
<p>I think you need a serious reality check if you are viewing the AFA as a cheap way to get a top notch education plus play some ball on the weekends. If your son has shown a commitment to a military lifestyle or to military service, and sees med school as a way to enhance his ability to serve his country then you’re on the right track. If this is a new el cheapo way to finance his education, then I think he’s in for a very raw surprise.</p>
<p>The AFA plays football teams in the national top 25 (e.g. BYU, TCU), sometimes cracks the top 25 itself, and goes to bowl games. That’s a lot more intense than playing Ivy opponents + Holy Cross and Colgate. And then the military environment is much more intense than life at a typical college. Your life as an athlete at AFA would be scripted for you, and you’d better thrive on the military regimen.</p>
<p>On the other hand, how would you use the flexibility that Dartmouth would provide? World-class faculty, world-class peers, world-renowned arts and speakers and opportunities . . . while neither school may set you up for a career, both schools could certainly give you a big boost in setting yourself up career-wise. But to me, Dartmouth is a very rare chance to develop yourself into a person with a special, informed appreciation for all that post-collegiate life has to offer and the goals and aspirations to take advantage of it. As I told my first daughter when she unexpectedly got into one of Dartmouth’s sister schools, “If you decide not to go there, will you wonder for the rest of your life what it may have been like if you had?” She answered “yes,” and I replied “then that’s probably where you need to be.”</p>
<p>
[quote=gadad]
“If you decide not to go there, will you wonder for the rest of your life what it may have been like if you had?” She answered “yes,” and I replied “then that’s probably where you need to be.”
[quote]
That is a very good metric for “gut feeling.”</p>
<p>Both Dartmouth and USAFA can be those schools, but often for different people.</p>
<p>What are your son’s goals?
–Excellent undergrad education? Both would serve him well, but Dartmouth wins on the academic side.
–Play football? While USAFA has a good team, if that is his primary concern, USAFA is NOT the right school.
–Pre-med? NOT USAFA. We do not have an official “pre-med” program. Our Bio-chem, Chem, and Bio majors can create a “pre-med” style program, but most who start the program will change majors before graduation. (I can’t really speak for Dartmouth with any authority.)
–To be “set for life?” I don’t think either school can do that. USAFA has some nice benefits, but they are not THAT good (and come with some serious drawbacks)</p>
<p>(Probably the biggest factor)
Does he WANT to serve in the military? If serving in the military is a drawback to him, DON’T go to USAFA. The whole purpose of USAFA is to develop leaders for service to the nation. dot. period. end of story.</p>
<p>Is he planning to do ROTC if he doesn’t go to USAFA?</p>
<p>If not, it seems to me that he’s not really committed to being a military officer, and he’s not likely to have a good experience if he’s ambivalent about it.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, my son was recruited by both schools a few years ago, seriously considered the USAFA, but is now at Northwestern University as he chose not to apply to either school. The academics at Air Force are strong & required a substantial “core curriculum”. The committment of eight years after graduation (pilot qualified) was too much for him as an 18 year old. Medical school would require at least a similiar committment, but your son would be older due to the lengthy medical school process.</p>
<p>All comments are well-received and appreciated.</p>
<p>I’ll try and answer a few of the questions.</p>
<p>S was offered acceptance at Dartmouth this past weekend and a slot on the team (Coach said Admissions had preliminarily reviewed his application and that he had been deemed “admissible”). They want him to sign a LOI by signing day February 4th but will relax the deadline if he needs more time to decide.</p>
<p>Air Force offered last week, but does not have anymore official visits available but would like us to come up on an unofficial that would be official in every way but not pay for his flight meals or lodging.</p>
<p>Talked to S and determined that his interest in the Air Force was more because they were a top D1 football team playing the likes of Utah every year and going to bowl games. As a poster reflected, I counseled that joining the Air Force just to play D1 football and not because it has been your dream to be in the Air Force would not be a wise choice.</p>
<p>He is mulling it over.</p>
<p>Vandy is out cause the coach who emailed S reiterated that he could not contact S weekly otherwise he would be considered a “preferred walk-on” and not just a “walk-on”.
Well, for those not familiar with recruiting and football, you never really want to go to a school as a walk-on, unless you are a “preferred walk-on”. You will likely never even suit up for a game…just get drilled in practice on the scout team…and if you possess greater skills than the scholarship athletes at your position you simply make the recruiting coach look bad for “missing” you. </p>
<p>Clearly football is important to S, as it has been his whole life. S is a top student for those who asked…other schools he has applied to include Carnegie-Mellon, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt and Washington U/St Louis. He has already been accepted by FSU Honors College w/ merit scholarships and UF decision is pending. Even without the football hook, he has a good chance of getting accepted at any or all of them.</p>
<p>EK is still knocking on the door…but the decision between Dartmouth and EK is easy.</p>
<p>Not sure if I addressed all points raised, but I tried…lol</p>
<p>^^agree strongly with raimius</p>
<p>From the airforce academy’s website, “The cost of an Academy education is currently valued at $403,353.”</p>
<p>As taxpayers, we should insist that all candidates enter the academies with the intent of finishing their careers there. This is not to say the OP’s son doesn’t have that intent, in the form of a flight surgeon or other position, but it is simply wrong to accept an appointment, if one does not feel called to serve. Of course 18 year olds can’t know how their feelings will change, but they must enter with proper motivation.</p>
<p>jdjaguar: My son also strongly considered Vanderbilt. Have you visited Northwestern University? If so, what were your & your son’s impressions? My son loves Northwestern so much that we have a great deal of difficulty getting him to come home over the long breaks. I have visited Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth & the USAFA several times each over the years so feel free to PM me if you have questions.</p>
<p>
I’m not sure if the same rules of recruiting apply to Vandy (or for that matter Stanford). I’m not sure how closely you follow Vandy, but a little while back, they reorganized how athletics was being managed (basically reigning them in - you can google for some articles). There has been a decreased emphasis on athletic recruiting in recent years and more on academics with their athletes. And strangely enough, their football team has gotten better…</p>
<p>So what may be up for some schools is down at Vandy. You might want to ask around with those more intimately familiar with Vandy athletics for a second opinion.</p>
<p>understood. maybe I’ll ask S to contact coach to see if he minds my calling him to clarify why he can’t make S a preferred walk-on.</p>
<p>As I mentioned in the other jdjaguar thread, my younger son is at Dartmouth, and lovin’ it.</p>
<p>When he and I took the tour in the spring of his junior year, I was very very impressed with the tour and the opportunities offered to D’s students. At the time, my older son was a junior in a small, mid-level LAC – so I had a basis for comparison. As S2 and I toured, I couldn’t get the thought out of my head that “This is worth $200,000!!”</p>
<p>Now that younger son is a sophomore, I still feel that way.</p>
<p>VeryHappy</p>
<p>I agree w/ your sentiments having just toured the school.</p>
<p>But it is S’s decision.</p>
<p>Glad to hear your S is doing well!</p>
<p>The nice thing about paying for Dartmouth as compared to my other kid’s colleges is that you pay seperately for each quarter. The $16K checks fool me into believing this school is cheaper;)</p>
<p>16k/qrt?</p>
<p>thats 64k/year…shouldn’t it be more like 12k/qtr?</p>
<p>or is it billed on 3 qrts w/ one off qtr?</p>
<p>Kids attend 3 quarters each of freshmen and senior years and can do what they want inbetween except for soph summer.</p>
<p>yeah ok, gotcha. (always thinking in terms of 4 quarters…business…football etc lol)</p>
<p>JDjaguar-</p>
<p>On this site there is another Parents Forum just for the service academy parents. Look under the main menu for the forums and it is with the service academy forums. There is a specific area for the AFA and is frequented by parents and students with similar questions especially if one is an athlete.</p>
<p>My 2 sons played football since PeeWee Pop Warner and were both hs varsity athletes. Both were accepted to 3 academies (USAFA, USMA, and USNA) for 2 consecutives years. 1 matriculated and the other is at an ivy. 1 decided NOT to play for the academy and other walked-on to the ivy.</p>
<p>I echo the other posters that both foremost were motivated to serve in the military and looked at their attendance at the academies as the beginnings of their military careers. Both also applied for and received ROTC scholarships. Their extra-curricular needs/wants and even their majors were secondary to their long-range goals of career officer.</p>
<p>They did/do not regard their committment after undergrad as unwanted but rather as an honor and privilege. I cannot speak for other cadets/mids but my sons felt very strongly about this.</p>
<p>Son at the ivy now was also accepted at Dartmouth and it was one of his top 5-7 choices. However, when it came to the top two it was his current school and West Point. Hardest decision he has made to date. He was in early at MIT, CalTech, notified early at Duke, Vandy, Penn’s M&T and yet West Point was one of his top 2.</p>
<p>He made his decision last day in April. He fits very well were he is now, and was able to play football there but he still looks back on what might have been. I don’t know if given the same choice again he would make the same decision.</p>
<p>And yes boys did their visits, and it helped in ruling certain schools out.</p>
<p>But realize that playing D1 ball is a full-time job. And they can get hurt. And getting hurt can alter service-selection at the academies, hence 1 son not playing. </p>
<p>Good luck, and I hope I helped!</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>While playing D1 is very attractive, attending USAFA to be a D1 player is a poor choice. The practice schedules are tough, academics are crammed back-to-back to fit the football schedule (i.e. planned and completely filled schedule between 0630 and 1830, not including extra work-outs, several hours of homework, and military duties). A large percentage of IC athletes stop playing sports to stay out of academic deficiency, at USAFA.</p>
<p>My freshman year, I knew a guy who came to USAFA to play football. He was not interested in the military side of things. He left before Thanksgiving break.</p>
<p>ramius,…noted.</p>