<p>Also, a lot of people assume that there are too few people at a LAC. However, how many people at a huge school do you think you will meet? Although the school might have 40,000 students, you'll probably know 200 of them. Guess what. At the 4,000 student school, you'll still know those 200.</p>
<p>My sons felt that the LACs were too similar to their high school experiences. They both chose larger universities. The older one has been taking grad level classes since sophomore year. He's currently in one grad class with five other grad students. He's the only undergrad (because the course has a 'tough' rating on student review.com). It's a great option for a kid who wants to stretch himself.</p>
<p>If your D is already feeling claustrophobic, I recommend she chooses the larger university with the deepest course offering in her area of interest. I recommend she gets online to check the depth of the course offerings.</p>
<p>Choose a place that will be exciting when she is a junior. Don't rely on JYA to keep the interest from flagging.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention that my son (who would not be a standout at a school with 40,000 undergrads, or even half that) got a nice summer research job at his LAC. It's good money, good experience, and he's really looking forward to it. I do not believe there's a snow ball's chance in hell that he would have been able to do that at a big U.</p>
<p>McGill - brrrr. Good city, great skiing. :)</p>
<p>LOL. It's mostly my dh who is not enamored. :) At least in his little world of cancer research he doesn't meet anyone at meetings that isn't either at a university or a separate research institute.</p>
<p>However, I'm thinking a nice LAC may be a good place for my younger son which is why I spent last night at the LAC workshop at college night at our high school hearing about how wonderful Vassar, Wesleyan and Haverford are. (Also U. of Rochester which seemed to me not to really belong on the list.) </p>
<p>An LAC wasn't what I was looking for way back when. I wanted cities. I wanted a a fairly big college. And yes I wanted grad students. At least half the courses I took in my major were grad courses at the architecture school.</p>
<p>DD really likes the LARGE number of courses, including the many, many languages she could learn at McGill. she likes the large French Canadian population. She loves the greater independence, but given her current bout with senioritis, I wonder if she will have the self-motivation to succeed there. We were told they use a more British sort of education system in which they describe what they want you to produce, but there is not much in the way of hand-holding or walking students through the process. And compared to US colleges, there is grade deflation. I think she would learn a lot at McGill (as she also would at Mac), but the ride at McGill might be a wee rough.</p>
<p>So part of the choice here is LAC vs research university, but there are some special factors involved with McGill.</p>
<p>^ Well, sounds like you've made up your mind, especially with the "many, many languages" she wants to learn.</p>
<p>I know a girl who is student in engineering (first year) at McGill. It has been a good but very rough year, particularly in relation to how large and somewhat impersonal the school has seemed, the demands of living off campus, the course load and relatively remote connection there is to classmates or faculty. It is not a nurturing place, but it is exciting and stimulating..</p>
<p>
Well, it is an irrational response to a very real concern. </p>
<p>I have noticed differences in culture emerging somewhat on various internet forums for different colleges. The word "insular" can mean a lot of different things, and your d. may be worried that she is not going to find a good social fit at Macalester. So that is just one more reason why an overnight visit would be so important -- and your daughter's preference to do it at a time other than the admitted student weekend is probably a good idea. Better to skip the organized presentations and instead have time to spend walking around, visiting classes, and chatting informally with other students. And it quite valid for her to focus on the social milieu -- after all, she has to live there for 4 years. If there is not an easy fit -- and if she can not make a good group of core friends soon after arrival -- the intimacy of the LAC can give way to loneliness. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if she is fortunate enough to make some friends while visiting -- that could help smooth the transition to Macalester.</p>
<p>She definitely needs to visit both schools because they are extremely different - even more so than Mac and, say, UMich would be. I have some friends who had lived in Canada for many years, and when their D started college she went back to Canada to school, based on her experiences the social life and "everyday" experience are different than the typical American university would be from a LAC.</p>
<p>Cangel - I'd really appreciate hearing how Canadian and American universities differ in social life and everyday experience.</p>
<p>Although..the making friends part of social life is not the issue for my d. Rather, it's the sense that her fellow students will be too much alike and that they will reinforce each others' commonalities.</p>
<p>I'd really like to hear about the difference between life at Canadian vs American schools, as well. My daughter was also accepted at both Macalester and McGill. Although, she lost interest in Macalester a while back, McGill is one of her top three choices, the other two being a small LAC with a full ride, and a medium sized university with no aid at all.</p>
<p>At an open house I went to yesterday, a dean posed the question, "consider whether your student will outgrow the school before he or she graduates."</p>
<p>That said, I think the answer is NOT predetermined LAC or University/ small town or big city. Like everything else, and what others have said, it is the individual student combined with the individual school. </p>
<p>Many students solve the "needing more elbow room" problem by taking a junior year abroad... but perhaps your student isn't the type to enjoy that. Perhaps your child's direction of growth will be into the archives, or lab, or stacks or mountains... and the world will grow large enough within the physical and conceptual boundaries of the LAC. </p>
<p>Some students need to try on different identities... this year I'm the arsty theater leading lady ingenue type dating the Humanities' dean's airhead son... next year I am majoring in soil science and president of the rebublican log cabin lesbian chapter and don't want to be recognized by the Humanities' dean... well, maybe I should have gone to that large, large, large land grant institution and not the 1,200 student fairy take idyllic setting LAC!</p>
<p>Once you have some acceptances in hand, and the schools are similar in cost and in quality of education within some broad measure and reputation, count your blessings ... visit virtually or in person as time and budget allow... and allow emotions, heart, soul and instinct to drive the final signature on the dotted line.</p>
<p>(For law schools, I visited a few and there was one that just seemed RIGHT to me... my heart went pitter patter... I have no idea why... now I hated it for the most part when I was there.... but I met some wonderful (also unhappy) people and we have stayed lifelong friends and colleagues... and it was a good enough and just fine decision!)</p>
<p>It has been awhile ago, and I only spoke with her a couple of times about it. Please Canadians, if my facts are worng correct please correct me.
This young woman's impression was that the Canadian students were somewhat more mature in age and behavior, and system recognized that. The drinking age was lower, and social life centered around pubs and going out with friends. I can't at all comment about the amount of drinking, she implied that it was more like adult social life in the States rather than the stereotype of wild frat partying in the States.
There seemed to be little or no campus housing, students lived in apartments, and made friends in classes or in the laundromat or with the kids next door - much less coddling, much more independent.
I only saw her once after she actually started school, so I can't comment on difficulty in getting classes or impersonality of the school - again I defer to the Canadians.</p>
<p>Thank you Cangel for replying. I like the idea of "somewhat more mature in age and behavior" and not the "stereotype of wild frat partying". I have lived in Canada, though, and can say that it is not by any stretch of the imagination a nation of teetotalers. As for campus housing, I believe that freshman are required to live on campus and then have to make way for incoming freshmen. It is not difficult to find decent off campus housing, from what I've heard. I moved off campus after a three semesters in a dorm (not at McGill), so don't have a problem with that idea. It was fun to take that next step into adulthood.</p>
<p>Ha, MellowMom, I was trying to come up with a tactful way to say there was still a fair amount of drinking, and some overindulging, but without the atmosphere and complications of illegality. Many young single, of-age adults in the States do a lot of drinking, some don't.</p>
<p>I lived off campus after a year in college as well, and found it to be a maturing experience, although this was in a small town, not a city like McGill.
Posters on this forum have alluded before to the impersonality and lack of hand-holding in terms of getting classes, bureaucracy, etc, but as I said, I didn't really see this kid after she went to school.</p>
<p>"Posters on this forum have alluded before to the impersonality and lack of hand-holding in terms of getting classes, bureaucracy, etc, but as I said, I didn't really see this kid after she went to school."</p>
<p>We are not all that concerned about drinking or housing issues, but we are concerned with the infamous administration and problems of getting classes, non-relationships with mentors, anonymity, etc. If my daughter chooses McGill, she will be in the Arts Legacy program for her first year. This is a much smaller classics based humanities program of about 100 to 150 kids with very small classes and tutorials. As she was planning initially doing a classics/language program wherever she went, this seems to be an ideal solution to the "impersonality' problem. At least we hope it will be. There is not much information out there about the program, as it is relatively new and very small.</p>
<p>A word of caution about LACs....I think they are wonderful; not my cup of tea, but I know people, including my husband, whose lives were changed because they landed at a LAC. </p>
<p>D #1 chose to attend an LAC last year based on the fact that she loved the surroundings, it seemed to have a lot going on in her area of interest, it was in a completely different part of the country, and they wooed and feted her. Her stats were on the high side for the school so she did get some merit aid. It's the end of Freshman year and she's climbing the walls because she hasn't found an equally accomplished and motivated peer group.</p>
<p>If you go to a small private school be really cognizant of where your student fits in stats wise. Better to be average or below and know you need to stretch and work to run with the academic pack. D got into a much more selective school but didn't go because they didn't offer her any aid, now she's regretting that decision pretty regularly because she can't find anybody who wants to work as hard as she wants to.</p>
<p>Hmm. In counterpoint, my D was towards the top of the admissions class at her LAC and hasn't had a problem finding her academic peers. She's found some tremendous intellectual attributes among her classmates, regardless of what their high school scores/grades may have been.</p>
<p>any way she would do an overnight visit? my d really thought she liked Occidental when we toured early on in the college process..she liked what they said about lib arts, liked the campus and locale</p>
<p>but then when she did an ovenight there last Fall, she really did not like it</p>
<p>she went to a small high school in an average size town, and I think it felt too much like high school to her...probably more size related than LAC-related</p>
<p>so maybe a larger LAC would suit your d?</p>
<p>
Wow, mombot - that would not be good. :( D is finding a cadre of kids who are kicking butt and taking names. Stompin' on the terra. Some big scholarship kids, some not - but all hard chargers, kids wanting to squeeze every drop of blood out of the turnip. Maybe it's because she's pre-med but not all the kids in her group are (although they are all math/science-y kids of one type or another. There's another group of really smart humanities/ IR focused kids). </p>
<p>Had she NOT found them , she'd be looking for the door.</p>
<p>I think she still thinks 20% of the kids are the equal of any kids anywhere, which was her guess going in. And the top of those are keeping it "lively" for her. So far at least.</p>